No hot break :( is it still ok?

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jamesk9

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For the first time I cooked a batch on my back porch using the side burner on my grill.. It was SLOOOOOOOW to heat up. when it finally did, the much anticipated hot-break boil over never happened. Is the hot break nevessary?

It was a batch of braggot
6 lb British pale 2 row
3/4 lb honey malt
5# local honey
5.8% of saaz - (bittering)

mashed at 152 for 60 mins
late addition on the liquid honey

og 1.063
 
You might have never reached the threshold of explosion that often signifies the hot break. If you had a rolling boil going for 60-90 mins I expect you'll be fine, it probably just occurred over time rather than very quickly. How big is your brew pot?
 
What exactly does the hotbreak do for the beer anyway? Release proteins? Or is cold break for protien? Or am I sittin out in left field throwing my glove in the air?
 
Gremlyn1 - Brewpot is 8 gallons.. boil volume was a little over 6 gallons.
 
IrregularPulse said:
What exactly does the hotbreak do for the beer anyway? Release proteins? Or is cold break for protien? Or am I sittin out in left field throwing my glove in the air?
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I think the main thing it does is create a huge mess if you don't put a stop to it quick.....then, afterwards your beer is effected because there's less volume :D

The hotbreak is just proteins from the mash being released at this particular temperature point right before boiling point. They still go back in the beer if they don't overspill. The main thing you want is a rolling boil for AG: my understanding is that in a boil, DMS is released (which is a chemical compound in base malts).
 
Yeah I understand the rolling boil, just never knew the reasoning for the hot break. I think a good cold break helps clarify the beer.
 
IrregularPulse said:
Yeah I understand the rolling boil, just never knew the reasoning for the hot break. I think a good cold break helps clarify the beer.
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Agreed....I don't think there's a need for a hot break: it just usually happens when the wort is getting close to boiling. At least when my first few AG batches were done in a smaller brew kettle, I didn't see any benifit for hot breaks: especially if hot break got on my toes!!!:cross:
 
I would imagine that the hot break/boil over signifies that the proteins are denaturing rapidly, which would happen over time with a rolling boil too. I can't think of a reason a hot break would be necessary. I bet a portion refold after the wort is cooled anyway.
 
during a hot break proteins are coagulating and will settle to the bottom of your pot. these proteins would otherwise cloud your beer. this is why you siphon off the top of the wart first. the cold break is another set of proteins coagulating. the temperature drop must be quick otherwise the proteins will not come out of your wart. without a cold break you will have a chill haze in your beer. basically when the beer is cold it will be hazy but clear as it warms. this is regarded as a cosmetic problem because you cant actually taste it.
 
If it's really slow coming to a boil, you usually won't have the worry of a boil over - that doesn't mean the hot break didn't happen, it just happened slowly and tamely enough that it didn't cause a boil-over. I often throttle back my burner for just a minute or two as the boil starts just to help avoid a boilover (I don't have much extra room in the pot). Did you get any foam at all? That's your hot break.

It's just something that happens, it's not something to worry about.
 
:smack:Its my understanding that the hot break is important. It is during the hot break that the starches released from mashing are converted to sugars. The more vigorous the boil, the more body the bear will have as more unfermentable sugars are produced. If you are brewing a wheat beer or something where you want a little less body, you can bring the temp down after the hot break, but you still need to have the hot break.

The best trick for controlling a hot break is to get a spray bottle. Fill the spray bottle with cold water and then when the hot break is about to boil over spray the top of the boil with the cold water, works like a charm. Word to the wise, if you put the spray bottle in the freezer to get the water cold, do not put the sprayer head in with it. I am brewing right now and pulled my spray bottle out of the freezer when I was approaching the hot break and it wouldn't spray because it was frozen! (duh) So I had to franticly try to heat up the nozzle with hot water. I had to pull the pot off of the heat for about 1 minute before I could get the sprayer working. I then put the pot back on heat and the hot break started up again.

I have found that many home brewers do not sufficiently heat their wort. If you are using a stove top, you probably need to start out with the heat full blast to get a good hot break. I under heated many of my first brews and realized that was my beers didn't seem to have a lot of body.
 
I think you're incorrect on this.
1st - it is during the mash that the starches in your grain (base grains & lighter specialty grains) are converted to the sugars needed by the yeast for fermentation. Non- fermentable sugars do contribute to body & mouth feel but you can create too many if you don't control your mash temp. Higher temps ( 154 ish ) will denature the beta amylase that creates most of your fermentables.

The hot break is actually the proteins falling out of solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
Sorry Jimmy, govner is correct. You don't create any more sugars during the boil. In an AG batch, the sugars you get from the mash are the sugars you have. Done correctly, your mash converted all the starch to sugar.
 
Ok, well regardless of what is occurring during the hot break, it is important to have the hot break. Simply google "importance of hot break" and a number of sources will explain why. If you do not have a hot break, you are probably not heating the wort enough.
 
"Chapter 7 - Boiling and Cooling
7.2 The "Hot Break"

A foam will start to rise and form a smooth surface. This is good. If the foam suddenly billows over the side, this is a boil-over (Bad). If it looks like it is going to boil over, either lower the heat or spray the surface with water from a spray bottle. The foam is caused by proteins in the wort that coagulate due to the rolling action of the boil. The wort will continue to foam until the protein clumps get heavy enough to sink back into the pot. You will see particles floating around in the wort. It may look like Egg Drop Soup. This is called the Hot break and may take 5-20 minutes to occur, depending on the amount of protein in your extract. Often the first hop addition triggers a great deal of foaming, especially if hop pellets are used. I recommend waiting until the Hot break occurs before doing your first Hop addition and timing the hour. The extra boiling time won't hurt.

Covering the pot with the lid can help with heat retention and help you achieve your boil, but it can also lead to trouble. Murphy's Law has its own brewing corollary: "If it can boil over, it will boil over." Covering the pot and turning your back on it is the quickest way to achieve a boilover. If you cover the pot, watch it like a hawk.

Once you achieve a boil, only partially cover the pot, if at all. Why? Because in wort there are sulfur compounds that evolve and boil off. If they aren't removed during the boil, the can form dimethyl sulfide which contributes a cooked cabbage or corn-like flavor to the beer. If the cover is left on the pot, or left on such that the condensate from the lid can drip back in, then these flavors will have a much greater chance of showing up in the finished beer."

"--How To Brew By John Palmer"
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"Hot & Cold Break By: Tom Ayers

This week I’m going to touch on a technical topic that has been mentioned several times in previous articles on love2brew. Hot & cold break are two important phases of the brewing process that play an integral role on the end product. Managing these two breaks properly will result in an even better tasting and looking beer.

Let’s start by defining hot and cold break, followed by recognizing them and lastly managing each. Hot break is the coagulation of mostly proteins, but also a few other things, during the boil. These same proteins are responsible for chill haze in your end product. Chill haze is as it sounds, haze that forms when you chill your beer. When your boil starts and that head of foam forms, that has caused many a boil overs, you are witnessing the start of hot break. As the proteins clump together and become heavier they sink back into the boil which is why the foamy boil subsides after a while. If you use an anti-foam product it just accelerates this process by coagulating the proteins quickly. To reduce the likelihood of chill haze be sure to complete a strong rolling boil for at least 60 minutes to clump these proteins. Irish moss or the like will also help reduce chill haze. Some brewers like to scoop the foam that films up on the top of the boil after the break occurs. I personally do not worry too much about hot break, it gets collected during my chilling along with the cold break. Be careful, adding ingredients can also cause additional break and potential boil overs." <--love2brew.com
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Those are just 2 examples I've found when I googled "importance of hot break", but the other sites I saw on the first page all say it is just the proteins coagulating and nothing about producing unfermentable sugars. I would believe if that was happening then John Palmer would have at least mentioned it since it would be something important to think about when you are brewing.
 
Right, but like I said, the hot break is important. That is why I said "regardless of what is actually happening during the hot break it is important to have the hot break". I think that "throttling the heat back" during the hot break is not good because you are not allowing the hot break to finish. That is why it is better to keep the heat steady and just use a spray bottle to prevent boil overs.
 
JimmyT555 said:
Right, but like I said, the hot break is important. That is why I said "regardless of what is actually happening during the hot break it is important to have the hot break". I think that "throttling the heat back" during the hot break is not good because you are not allowing the hot break to finish. That is why it is better to keep the heat steady and just use a spray bottle to prevent boil overs.
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If i wasnt able to throttle the heat back on the stove i brew on id wind up with one hell of a mess despite stirring or spraying the surface. Ive always been under the impression you regulate the heat during the hotbreak, watching it like a hawk until the foam reabsorbs.
 
Nobody's going to point out the fact that this discussion is coming on a four-and-a-half year thread necro?

So be it.

I put my paddle across the top of my kettle when I start the boil. The only (minor) boilover I've had occurred on the one batch on which I forgot to do so. It's a common technique for avoiding boilover when you're making pasta - figured it was worth a shot for beer as well, and I haven't been disappointed.
 
Munchkin, have you tried it with cold water in the spray bottle? You also need to make sure it is a spray bottle with a wide spray. They sell good ones in the travel section at Walmart. I still have minor boil overs using the spray bottle sometimes, but I don't have to throttle the heat back. I think it is important to have a good hot break to get a clear bear.
 
JimmyT555 said:
Munchkin, have you tried it with cold water in the spray bottle? You also need to make sure it is a spray bottle with a wide spray. They sell good ones in the travel section at Walmart. I still have minor boil overs using the spray bottle sometimes, but I don't have to throttle the heat back. I think it is important to have a good hot break to get a clear bear.
Click to expand...

Ill play around more with the water bottle next time I brew. If i can control the foam with the sprayer it would be alot easier than taking 5 - 10 mins throttling the burner back and forth.
 

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