Desperate Plea for Help

Brewed a tried and true stout recipe ( https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f68/none-more-black-vanilla-stout-96969/) with plans to take it to a local beer fest. I was convinced by a much experienced brewer to lower the hop additions as he felt it was too bitter. That combine with a lack of Cluster availability locally led me to an all EKG brew (1oz@60, 0.75oz@20). Hit all my SG's almost exactly as predicted.

What I got is a beer with no hop flavor at all. The taste is all sweet.

Is there any way to salvage this? Would dry hopping do anything to help really?

dry hopping will only give you aroma, it won't do anything for bitterness.

you could make a hop tea.

Isn't there a bittering extract available for homebrewers? ...aside from that, you might decide to try blending it with a more hoppy beer.

Dry hopping will NOT add to the bitterness to balance out the malt sweetness. You should have upped the EKG 60 min addition to account for the lower alpha acids. What you are looking for now is to add bitterness to balance out the sweet. Not sure if there is anything you can do now. Sorry not much help.

Tinga said:

you could make a hop tea.

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That could work! I've accidentally tried to add a hop tea instead of dry hopping before I knew what I was doing and it added a decent amount of bitterness because I steeped the hops too long.

I haven't used the hop shot from NB, but I believe it also needs to boil.

That what I thought I understood about dry hopping...Only aroma.

My previous brew of this beer, had an estimated 28 IBUs. With the advice I got, I convinced myself to drop it some. With the hop additions listed, I get about 21-22 IBUs. One thing I realized last night while trying to figure out what happened is that EKG is used mainly for aroma, not bittering.

Pretty sure it's just screwed up.

I would try the hop tea, couldn't hurt if it's already screwed up. Get .25 to .50 oz. of some cluster or similar AA hops put it in a fine mesh bag and boil with a little water for an hour then add it to the stout.

Go with your gut next time. Use what YOU wanna use.

But there really shouldn't be much difference between a 22 IBU beer and a 28 IBU beer in bitterness.

Has it conditioned completely?

Gary

GASoline71 said:

Go with your gut next time. Use what YOU wanna use.

But there really shouldn't be much difference between a 22 IBU beer and a 28 IBU beer in bitterness.

Has it conditioned completely?

Gary

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By math, you are looking at beer that is about 21% less bitter. It should be noticeable, but not overwhelming.

The beer is supposed to be sweet with low hop bitterness but you say it is too sweet.
EKG at 4% is not equal to Cluster at 7%; so you should have used close to 2oz of EKG for the 60min addition. I have never tried it but you can do a hop tea (boil hops in water for 60min then add to beer). If you want a little hop flavor too, put the hops in the water while you are warming it up kinda like a first wort hops addition. Note that dry hopping will only get you aroma.

GASoline71 said:

Go with your gut next time. Use what YOU wanna use.

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I had that exact discussion with my wife last night. I was very disappointed in the beer that went into the keg, especially because I have had a lot of success with this beer and many compliments. I often let shop owners convince me to change my recipe. Sometimes it is due to ingredient availability, but often because they think have a better idea. Well, I told her last night, NO MORE! I should be able to make my own mistakes, not someone elses!

homebrewdad said:

By math, you are looking at beer that is about 21% less bitter. It should be noticeable, but not overwhelming.

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That's more of what I meant... you just said it better than me.

Gary

Guidry said:

I had that exact discussion with my wife last night. I was very disappointed in the beer that went into the keg, especially because I have had a lot of success with this beer and many compliments. I often let shop owners convince me to change my recipe. Sometimes it is due to ingredient availability, but often because they think have a better idea. Well, I told her last night, NO MORE! I should be able to make my own mistakes, not someone elses!

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Don't be bitter be hoppy. Make your hop tea in 200 F water in a mason jar. Leaf otherwise you will get the pellet sludge. In fact after you let it sit an hour strain it off really good then boil it up some more. You want to do a mini-hot break to hopefully coagulate the hop proteins. Anyway that's my theory because last time I did the hop tea thing it took a while for the haze to clear. Also in your case you are after bitterness not hop flavor and aroma if I am not mistaken.

Whippy said:

Isn't there a bittering extract available for homebrewers? ...aside from that, you might decide to try blending it with a more hoppy beer.

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I believe Morebeer.com sells it @ 30 bucks a oz but you only need a few drops to make a difference.

Guidry said:

I had that exact discussion with my wife last night. I was very disappointed in the beer that went into the keg, especially because I have had a lot of success with this beer and many compliments. I often let shop owners convince me to change my recipe. Sometimes it is due to ingredient availability, but often because they think have a better idea. Well, I told her last night, NO MORE! I should be able to make my own mistakes, not someone elses!

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yep, you are entering YOUR beer, not his!

unionrdr said:

I was wondering if some of that sweetness may've come from slightly lower attenuation?

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No, in fact, I used US-05 and my FG was 1.011. That stuff really does some work.

bethebrew said:

Don't be bitter be hoppy. Make your hop tea in 200 F water in a mason jar. Leaf otherwise you will get the pellet sludge. In fact after you let it sit an hour strain it off really good then boil it up some more. You want to do a mini-hot break to hopefully coagulate the hop proteins. Anyway that's my theory because last time I did the hop tea thing it took a while for the haze to clear. Also in your case you are after bitterness not hop flavor and aroma if I am not mistaken.

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In an estimated 46 SRM stout, I don't think haze would be an issue.

Qhrumphf said:

In an estimated 46 SRM stout, I don't think haze would be an issue.

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I'm sure there is at least one anal beer judge that uses a 1ml pipette to measure SRM. -1 point for Griffindor!