Freeze concentration

^damn skippy!

I'm about ready to rack my Eisbock off the primary into a secondary. Question is, if I rack it into a glass carboy, will that crack when I freeze concentrate it?


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I wouldn't use glass. You have to invert it and balance it on another bottle(see above) to get the concentrate out.

An Eisbock only removes about 20% of the water during concentration. Should I expect it to freeze throughout?


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johnpcook1 said:

An Eisbock only removes about 20% of the water during concentration. Should I expect it to freeze throughout?


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The amount it freezes will depend on the freezer temperature and the time allowed to freeze. While it may not freeze solid, I also agree with the above poster that using glass is not a great idea. YMMV, do you feel lucky?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-oinyjsk0

So, a question then for those who have freeze concentrated a beverage. Does it tend to freeze from the sides first? All throughout? Has anyone done this in a plastic bucket? Or a corny keg?


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johnpcook1 said:

So, a question then for those who have freeze concentrated a beverage. Does it tend to freeze from the sides first? All throughout? Has anyone done this in a plastic bucket? Or a corny keg?

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My experience is it freezes throughout in a crystalized sort of slush. I froze a few plastic 2 liter soda blttles of apple wine, then inverted the bottles over another bottle with a funnel and let the liquid drip out until the ice was clear. Others have done it in a bucket, and removed the ice with a strainer / spoon.

johnpcook1 said:

So, a question then for those who have freeze concentrated a beverage. Does it tend to freeze from the sides first? All throughout? Has anyone done this in a plastic bucket? Or a corny keg?


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Never a corny keg, but I've done it in a plastic bucket. You'll have to strain out the ice and let it drip for some time while in the freezer, so you either need to live somewhere cold or have a big freezer.

I did it by freezing in a 4 gallon bucket then inverting the 4 gal over a 5 gal through a strainer. The ice was clear after about5 hours.

What about a bottling bucket? The spigot would prob get clogged though, huh??


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Im kinda diggin the bucket spoon method. Then I can capture/melt/measure the ice to know when Ive removed abou 20%.


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USA is not the world. Home distillation for non-commercial purposes is legal here in New Zealand. It is a good way to get rid of hopelessly wretched wines. Spirits and fortified wines are a craft item here with contests and prizes, the same as with wine and beer.

PatrickSweetman said:

USA is not the world. Home distillation for non-commercial purposes is legal here in New Zealand. It is a good way to get rid of hopelessly wretched wines. Spirits and fortified wines are a craft item here with contests and prizes, the same as with wine and beer.

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This! There are many things that are regionally accepted and legal. I can't stand the way people run and hide anytime something "iffy" is discussed. Or dole out warnings about the man. My view: this is the worldwide web. Everything discussed here is both legal and illegal somewhere, so lighten up.

PatrickSweetman said:

USA is not the world. Home distillation for non-commercial purposes is legal here in New Zealand. It is a good way to get rid of hopelessly wretched wines. Spirits and fortified wines are a craft item here with contests and prizes, the same as with wine and beer.

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Exactly what are you responding to? This thread is discussing freeze concentration, not home distillation.

Nope, the USA is not the world, but this forum is U.S. based, as are those responsible for it, and my guess is that they are concerned about their own legal situation if they promote and/or permit distillation-how-to talk...

then again, this is kind of a moot point, since this is a thread on freeze concentration.

Was pointed out earlier in the thread that freeze concentration and distillation are regarded as equivalent in parts of the States, and I can tell you that that is the case in some other parts of the world too. However State and National laws are not universal, wheras the internet and this forum is universal, and that was my point.

Edit:- If you think that, for example, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan ordering the censorship of twitter is because of concerns about parochial feelings, then you know how the rest of the world feels about US censorship.

I'm pretty sure the owners of the website determine what content is appropriate...not the mean ole US government.

PatrickSweetman said:

State and National laws are not universal, wheras the internet and this forum is universal, and that was my point.
.

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That may be, however universal or not the owners/moderators of this site have requested no discussion of illegal activities which until laws are are changed means they would prefer us not to discuss distillation on their forums. Wether you agree or disagree doesn't really change anything. They own the site and say don't do it. So we don't do it. That said freeze concentration is not viewed as distillation and can be discussed on the site as this has been covered over and over in many threads on this forum.



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GilSwillBasementBrews said:

... That said freeze concentration is not viewed as distillation and can be discussed on the site as this has been covered over and over in many threads on this forum.



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Not viewed by the moderators of this site, but that is turning a blind eye, because the legal prohibition in many places is to fortification per se including both distillation and freeze concentration. In any case, distillation is legal with the possession of a license in jurisdictions where such a license is required.

PatrickSweetMan, what is your point? What do you want us to take from your statements? Cause frankly, Im hearing alot of rambling and no coherent point.


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Besides the federal government doesn't consider freeze concentration distillation. The only thing the ttb regulates in regards to freeze concentrating alcohol at home is that if concentrating wine your ABV doesn't exceed 25% for beer there is no such distinction. I will have to find the article I was reading earlier with emails from someone in the ttb stating pretty much exactly that.


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I'm not sure if somebody had mentioned this or not allready on this thread but a `normal` home deep freezer will only take you to a certain ABV %
not much higher than 20% if i remember correctly. To achieve higher % by freezing the temperature has to get EXTREMELY cold and there is a graph somewhere on HBT illustrating the curve on how cold = higher ABV % but it requires temps below -100-F if i remember correctly.

I've froze just about every thing I've made. not all of it mind ya. just enough to try. Its WARM!!! But the flavors of the wine increase as well. I've never considered ageing...never enough to age...lol
my advice to anyone wanting to try it. just try it.
buy a $10 bottle and freeze it. after putting it in a PLASTIC container. a 1 liter bottle fits into a qt jar quite nicely. leave a sample unfrozen to compare. I bought a gal of chianti wich was quite unpleasant. After freezing it, the taste greatly improved!
My favorite so far is apple. And I'm convinced that this is where it all began! Someone's hard cider got left out and froze. They brought it in and started drinking it as it thawed. We might have something here!!!

I guess I'll start by saying I believe a hydrometer reading shows the available amount of sugar in the must? Does this explain why jacked wines show very little or no change in reading? I had 3 gals of strawberry rhino fart, I whipped it etc and can't get the smell out. A bit of the strawberry aroma has returned, but the fart still lingers. I decided to jack it to see if freezing would squeeze the SO2 out of the mix. I think all it has done is concentrate the strawberry but hasn't relieved the nasty gas!?? Anyway, for sh!ts n giggles I took a hydrometer reading at the correct temp and it still indicates that ABV is only around 13.5% ... my vinometer says roughly the same 14% ... these reading are the same as before and after jacking. I removed roughly 50% of the water...what gives here?
Is ABV near double original readings....are the new readings meaningless?

Take a gravity reading on vodka. My guess is that not be too much different than your jacked wine.

You have also decreased your overall volume concentrating the alcohol by removing the excess water.
so if you had 15% alcohol @ 5 gallons and removed water to 2.5gallons your 15%@5G would be 30%@2.5G if you remove just water leaving the alcohol behind. Because you are concentrating the same amount of alcohol into half the volume so it doubles the ABV.


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That unfortunately is false...You do not only remove water.
Would be nice if it were that simple but unfortunately it is not.

Paps said:

That unfortunately is false...You do not only remove water.

Would be nice if it were that simple but unfortunately it is not.

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Which is why I said if. You are also not removing half the volume. So it becomes even more of a headache to try and solve for the actual ABV of the resulting concentrated volume.


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This is the reason I call my freeze concentrated wines my "high proof wines".. Rather than 40 proof or 50 proof.

how can I get my freezer COLDER? Has anyone "Tim the toolman Taylored" I.E. rewired it for more POWER? would a dry ice work? to get say... -40 or better?

I don't see why dry Ice wouldn't work.

I'm new to this stuff but I made some strong apple wine(just used store bought juice and LOTS of brown sugar and lavkin 1116?) Let it ferment, then happened to "store" it in the freezer. It was a solid block of ice. I had to drain off the liquid or throw it away. It made a very strong drink. My wife and I both loved it.
Only side effect was that woozy feeling the next morning.



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Ok

Ok I'm going to "store" 2.5 of the 5 gal. I just started in the freezer!!

I've done it in both wines and beer. In fact it's a great way to make a fpac for the wine if it has a light flavor.


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Hmmm... Colder equals higher ABV.... I wonder if my work would notice jugs of wine/beer in the -80C freezers...