Advanced extract brewing

Advanced Extract Brewing “AEB”

I introduce my self as a extract brewer of about 3 years. My hope is to give extract brewers an outlet to move there skill forward without making the big jump to all grain. Small space brewers might also gain a little knowledge in what I'm writing. We don't have the time ,space or money to go into a all grain setup. Yes i said that.

From here forward i assume most brewers have a couple of brews under there belt. You got the gist of how to brew an extract beer and your RLHAHB is well settled. For a long time extract brewing was called a stepping stone to all grain. Today many AG brewers are revisiting extract brewing. Be it to fill the gap in a pipeline or the fact they can not devote a full off day to brewing.

Ingredients: Pro extract brewers are not using pre hopped kits in a can. nor are they using the commercial pre boxed kits found in most LHBS “Brewers Best” True Brew” I'm looking at you ! When we get our ingredients or kits. They are made at the time the order is filled and shipped to us. Not pre packaged and sitting in a warehouse until your LHBS makes the order. Then its sitting on there shelves for god knows how long. This is just a start to what i want to write, If i get enough response i will write further.


Malt extract: Its the base of our soon to be beer. I often find its one of the most over looked ingredients that we use. If a all grain brewers mash temps are off so is the beer. This relates to us as extract brewers. If the company producing the extract is inconsistent. Then our beer is going to be inconsistent. Our soon to be beers outcome is in the hands of the company making our malt extract. As well as the packaging and handling to our door.

The great thing we have on our side is rather large companies who's sole business is grain and malting. We have pro mashers in our pocket. Today we now have a large verity of base malts to chose from over what was out there 5-10 years ago.

Just like a loaf of bread from the store. Extract can and will go bad. Light, heat,age and oxygen will deteriorate extract very fast. How is your extract packaged ? In a can, in a jug or container ? Can you see light or air through the container holding the extract ? All grain brewers would never pre crush 100 lbs of base malt and then let it sit for a month or more.

Take great care that you are getting the freshest extract possible. Refrigeration will go a long way in making sure it stays fresh until brew day.

A different way of brewing extract beer.
One of the biggest improvements I've made to my brewing thats not really talked about a lot. Is using a ultra light extract as your base and use the steeping grains for the color and flavor. 90% of the beers i make today are done this way. Porters,stouts,ambers and pales. The reason behind this is that i could never get fermentation consistency between the same batches with flavored extracts. I don't blame that on the company producing the malt. I blame the handling in between.

Steeping grains.
Because i depend on steeping grains to give me the color and flavor. Make sure your grains have a good crush. If not use a mill or place them in a ziploc bag and use a rolling pin. There shouldn't be whole kernels in your steeping grains. Water measurements are a little lass than 1 gallon per pound for steeping. I bring the steeping water up 170, turn off the heat and steep for 30 minutes using a timer. I even go so far as to sparge out the steeping grains to get as much out of them as I can.

Doing this allows us to experiment a bit. The flavor and color out come of our beer is now in our hands.

About SG and FG readings:
One of the most important and often over looked parts of brewing is taking readings. Some of this could be because the brewer doesn’t understand completely of what and why. The “why” is because of consistency. Brewers know all to well that consistency is the name of the game to great beer. There are many parts of a brew day that needs to be consistent, taking gravity readings during the boil and after fermentation are important.

Before I go on I want to make sure everyone understands one important thing. “Not all sugar is fermentable” “All sugar both fermentable and non-fermentable is read”. Taking a gravity reading shows all sugars.

Refractometer and Hydrometer:
Most brewers only use or own a refractometer. The problem with using refractometer is taking a SG reading is done after the wort is chilled and in the fermenter. By then is too late to try and adjust the gravity of the wort . AEB brewing is being able to check and adjust your gravity on the fly. This is where a refractometer comes into play. Not only do you not lose a vile of wort when measuring but you can take a reading during the boil. I always bump my SG up by adding some DME to compensate for the fact that the LME sugars are not fully fermentable. Refractometers can be had for cheap if you look around. The one I use reads both Brix and Gravity. A good high quality hydrometer should also be part of you brew equipment. The one I use also have a thermometer built in to compensate the readings.





More to come........

I have been brewing about a year and a half. I switched to all grain , but have switched back , at least now , to extract.
It seems that there are many skills , even with the simpler(shorter ) extract process , that can be refined. Neither i nor my friends are beer tasting experts. That being said , some of my most popular brews were extract.

I have a few brews under my belt. I feel I have finally acquired a good method and equipment for it. Thus far all mini mash and one extract and the extract was vastly better than the mini mashes. ..tempts me to keep with extract. Interested in the thread...write on!

Write on! I'm new to brewing, I've got 3 brews under my belt, and I have my next few brew days already planned. I've been reading all over the place and absorbing as much as I can, so I like to think I'm technically sound... I just gotta learn by experience now!

That said, I find a lot of extract talk is limited to the basics, as you already mentioned. The two brews I've tasted to date were good, but I'd love to learn more about extract brewing and how to get the most out of it, going beyond adding the extract later... Specially since I'm doing full volume boils anyway.

Originally I had planned to do a few batches of extract before moving to all grain... But I have a 2-year old and I've realised long brew days with them around, even when SWMBO is watching him, isn't a great idea. I'm happy with extract, and wanna learn as much about it as I can.

I look forward to reading more, and benefiting from an experienced extract brewer!

I'll bite. I'm about to start my 5th brew and I'm learning new tips and tricks along the way with each one. I made the same dumb mistake with my first three due to a major oversight, but they were still good. I can't say that I'll ever make the jump to all grain. I have a great equipment base and feel like extract will always fit my budget, time allowance, and taste. I'm happy with the kits I've gotten from Northern Brewer and Austin Homebrew Supply, but eventually I would like to piece together my own recipes.

love to hear you thoughts, tips, tricks and insight

write on

S_M

Thanks guys, updated and feel free to ask questions, give ideas and discuss.

Tell us about your method on sparging your grains.

My last batch was the first time I used the method of steeping in about 3/4 gallon of water per pound of grain. I did as you mention and got the water up to 170 and turned the heat off, but I only steeped them for 25 minutes. I would be interested in sparging them to get more out of them.

When we're trying to keep our water measurements specific to our boil size, do you predetermine how much water you're going to use to sparge with so you can calculate that as part of your total initial boil volume?

Mordhaus said:

Tell us about your method on sparging your grains.

My last batch was the first time I used the method of steeping in about 3/4 gallon of water per pound of grain. I did as you mention and got the water up to 170 and turned the heat off, but I only steeped them for 25 minutes. I would be interested in sparging them to get more out of them.

When we're trying to keep our water measurements specific to our boil size, do you predetermine how much water you're going to use to sparge with so you can calculate that as part of your total initial boil volume?

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Some would think that sparging the steeping grains is moot. We're only trying to get as much color and flavor out of them. not sugars. Again to me its all about going the extra mile on brew day. I bring up a small amount of water to 170 to sparge with. It's simply rinsing the grains.

My boil volumes change very little. In the end your still left with 5 gal if doing full boils. In our case Steep small and brew big. After we're done steeping and rinsing the grains. We then fill our boil pot to boil levels ie partial boils or full boils.

Another thing I took notice of when brewing my PTE clone kit from Austin Homebrew Supply is that they listed a final volume of 5.25 gallons. Then when I was using Mr. Malty to calculate my starter, their program defaults to 5.25 gallons.

Any thoughts on this? Should we be targeting a final volume of 5 or 5.25 gallons as rule of thumb or leave it up to recipe specifics?

I will say after tasting the PTE clone the other day while taking final gravity, I will definitely do some things differently from here on out.

1. Put that Stirstarter to use and make starters for every beer, big or not.

2. Like mentioned above, steep small and brew big. Fermcap S allowed me to control a 6 gallon starting boil and the tons of hop additions for the PTE.

3. Late extract addition. The Pliny called for 8lbs of LME. I added only 3lbs at the beginning of the boil and added the rest at 10 minutes before the end of the boil.

There's more, but I want to see this thread build in to an excellent tool through discussion and don't want to clutter up each post with too much information.

Mordhaus said:

Another thing I took notice of when brewing my PTE clone kit from Austin Homebrew Supply is that they listed a final volume of 5.25 gallons. Then when I was using Mr. Malty to calculate my starter, their program defaults to 5.25 gallons.

Any thoughts on this? Should we be targeting a final volume of 5 or 5.25 gallons as rule of thumb or leave it up to recipe specifics?

I will say after tasting the PTE clone the other day while taking final gravity, I will definitely do some things differently from here on out.

1. Put that Stirstarter to use and make starters for every beer, big or not.

2. Like mentioned above, steep small and brew big. Fermcap S allowed me to control a 6 gallon starting boil and the tons of hop additions for the PTE.

3. Late extract addition. The Pliny called for 8lbs of LME. I added only 3lbs at the beginning of the boil and added the rest at 10 minutes before the end of the boil.

There's more, but I want to see this thread build in to an excellent tool through discussion and don't want to clutter up each post with too much information.

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Everything you stated is spot on ! It's all of those process that make a huge difference . When you read the basic directions on making a extract beer. Or even watch a video it's very basic slap it together and done. But when we take a professional approach to our methods we make award winning beer.

I think the reason to the extra final volume of wort is due to the dry hopping. Dry hopping will absorb a lot of wort/beer. When I know I will be dry hopping I do the same as in adding more to the final volume .

The trick to not diluting your OG is use of a refractometer . This is why I always have extra light DME on hand during brew day. I can always add in small amounts to bring up the OG without changing the style of the beer.

BxBrewer said:

I think the reason to the extra final volume of wort is due to the dry hopping. Dry hopping will absorb a lot of wort/beer. When I know I will be dry hopping I do the same as in adding more to the final volume.

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Ah, makes sense.

BxBrewer said:

The trick to not diluting your OG is use of a refractometer . This is why I always have extra light DME on hand during brew day. I can always add in small amounts to bring up the OG without changing the style of the beer.

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I did not know this. So let's say you've got your pale ale at 5 gallons and you take a reading before pitching. You should be at a 1.054 and you come in at 1.050. What would be the procedure and measurement of DME to get where you need to be? 10 grams at a time, 20?

(Now I see why having a refractometer for O.G. readings can be very handy. You only need a drop instead of enough of a sample to float the hydrometer)

Wow, what a refreshing thread. First, I have to admit that I all grain most of the time. At least 95%. That said, I am always on the lookout for sales or kits on sale that are extract or sales (like Morebeers 15% off everything) so I can buy an extract kit. I loved doing extract. So fast and admittedly so dam good with today's fresh extract. I'm a cheapo so I tend to all grain to save money becuase I brew an awful lot. I wish I could find better deals on DME bulk or had access to enough extract kits at a good price so I could brew extract more.

Mordhaus said:

Ah, makes sense.



I did not know this. So let's say you've got your pale ale at 5 gallons and you take a reading before pitching. You should be at a 1.054 and you come in at 1.050. What would be the procedure and measurement of DME to get where you need to be? 10 grams at a time, 20?

(Now I see why having a refractometer for O.G. readings can be very handy. You only need a drop instead of enough of a sample to float the hydrometer)

Click to expand...

Your starting to understand. I use both a hydrometer and refractometer . Refractometer during the boil. Hydrometer for FG after fermentation .

When using a refractometer during the boil. You don't need to cool down the wort like you do with a hydrometer . I just take my spoon and pour a little on the glass. Mine has both Brix as well as OG scale. $50 is a bit steep but if a brewer searches around they can be had for half that.

I mix in a half cup at a time checking between. As you get used to it it can be done by feel. Using too much will dry out the beer. Adding maltodextrin and/or lactose will add back body and mouth feel. I've never went to far to have to do that. The most I've been off is about 2 points and that's rare.

divrguy said:

Wow, what a refreshing thread. First, I have to admit that I all grain most of the time. At least 95%. That said, I am always on the lookout for sales or kits on sale that are extract or sales (like Morebeers 15% off everything) so I can buy an extract kit. I loved doing extract. So fast and admittedly so dam good with today's fresh extract. I'm a cheapo so I tend to all grain to save money becuase I brew an awful lot. I wish I could find better deals on DME bulk or had access to enough extract kits at a good price so I could brew extract more.

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I wanted to get it out there that there are brewers out there who do really well with extract.

You do know Morebeer has 10 beers under 50 cents a beer

Refractometer during the boil. Makes perfect sense. I see great deals on these all the time on Homebrew Finds. Time to get one in hand.

The term "the jump to all grain" always reminds me of Star Wars! It's not space travel or rocket science, it's just a more from scratch approach to brewing. I'm not an extract brewer, or an all-grain brewer, I'm just a brewer. I use different techniques to get the job done. Hurting for time and thirsting for a Bavarian Hef? Extract here I come! Read an awesome recipe in Zymurgy? I'm following it as closely as I can with all-grain so I can really nail it. Cranking out a big barley wine that maxes out my mash tun? Now I've got the tools to use both techniques so my brewing has no boundaries. My point with this rant? No one will ever settle any debate over extract vs all-grain. There are pros and cons to each, and both can produce great beer. A brewer need not decide whether to stick with one method of brewing; rather he should learn many methods and use what makes sense on a brew by brew basis. Why constrain yourself in the unlimited world of home brewing?

Ps- kudos to the OP for pointing out you can strive for excellence when brewing with extract.

Demus, I hear you ! Mind you I live and brew in the Bronx NYC. My man/brew cave is 8x12. I do not have a basement nor a garage. Other hobbies include fishing "both salt water and fresh", golf, and playing guitar. All along with brewing. I brew,ferment and keg+bottle in this 8x12 space. I have 2 5 gal corny kegs and 1 2.5gal keg along with 3 fermenters.

My point is I don't have the room for a HLT,mash tun and boil kettle. In order to make all grain cheaper I would have to buy base malt in bulk. Where am I going to put a couple hundred pounds of base malt lol ?

We make do with what we got. Doesn't mean one way is better than the other. I have done BiAB by the way. Im really glad we have kept this thread free from debate.

There is so much I want to share its hard to try and put it in one thread.

Love the thread. I'm in the same boat as you. I have done all types of brewing. All grain at my friends cause I don't have the room. I find extract with steeping grains and biab tastes just as good as doing all grain mostly stick to extract with steeping because of time. The only thing I have a hard time with is getting my final gravity levels to finish higher with extract rather than all grain which is easier Perhaps you know a good method of doing this. I've tried cutting my yeast amounts in half and adding more boiled extract to conk the yeast out to name a couple. Good thread keep it going.

How about some setup pics ? This is my brew bench. The kettle I put together. I went with a 3 piece valve and cam lock. I did this as transferring to the primary wouldn't involve me trying to dump a 5 gal pot of wort :cross:. I silver soldered a 1.5 tri cover fitting in the side to accept a element. Specs are ULWD 2000w 120v SS element . That plugs into a junction box with a on off switch and a GFI outlet. The beauty of this is as you can see. I can cap off the fitting and use the kettle on a gas burner or stove.

I also use a small hot plate to heat water for sparging, heating extract and heating water for rehydration.

How many of you pour your extract and stir it in the kettle ? Here is a great item that make life a lot more easy. Not to mention better beer. Why? Better mixing in of the extract. What I do is mix the extract in a separate container then mix it in the kettle. This mixer is called a jiffy mixer. It's 100% stainless steel. Don't use plastic or galvanized paint mixers as they can be toxic. I also sanitize this and use it to whirlpool my wort when chilling.

BxBrewer said:

How many of you pour your extract and stir it in the kettle ? Here is a great item that make life a lot more easy. Not to mention better beer. Why? Better mixing in of the extract. What I do is mix the extract in a separate container then mix it in the kettle. This mixer is called a jiffy mixer. It's 100% stainless steel. Don't use plastic or galvanized paint mixers as they can be toxic. I also sanitize this and use it to whirlpool my wort when chilling.

Click to expand...

I've been meaning to get a mixer for my drill just like this.

I brew extract largely and have been working on my all grain game but I definitely agree that there are ways to improve the extract brewing process. I also definitely believe that extracts can make great beers!

Points to note are getting good hot and cold breaks with rolling boils and quick cooling. I also place a lot of emphasis on my malt additions. For a while now I've been utilizing late malt extract additions to get my colors right, avoiding scorching (I still turn off my burner when I add extract) and preserving flavors. I also have been liking the differences in hop utilization when using late extract additions.

I also use starters, rehydrate yeast when using dry packets, steep specialty grains and keep extra malt extract around to make sure I'm hitting my gravity.

I've been brewing less than six months and have 6 brews under my belt so far, the seventh will be tomorrow. I like using LME for the bulk of my fermentables and supplementing the rest with either steeping grain or a partial mash. So far all my beers have come out really well. Late extract editions, controlling fermentation temps and quality ingredients have really paid off for me. I've considered moving to all grain but I really enjoy using extracts and that they give me a shortcut to refining other skills involved in brewing. I think I will put money into legging equipment and building a keezer before I get all grain equipment. Best hobby ever.

I am so happy to find this thread. I have several brews under my belt and have been brewing for around six months.
First off, I have a tiny kitchen. Like a you can touch the fridge, sink, stove, prep counter, and door without moving tiny. So I really enjoy the ease, compaction, and efficiency of extract brewing. I read about brewing a lot, have made changes to per made kits, and now order custom "kits" to my specs. What grains I want, what extract, hops, etc. I feel that I am simply outsourcing my malt extraction process, and I am taking care of the rest.
I think there is plenty of room for the artistry of brewing using the base canvas of a malt extract. No one condemns the painter for not making the canvas, the musician for not making the instrument which they use to create their magic. This thread excites me greatly.

I have a question for you all. Yesterday (8/10) I brewed up Northern Brewer's Lakefront Brewing 's Fixed Gear kit. In the instructions it said "Lakefront recommends a 90 min boil" I'm wondering what would the benefit of a 90 min boil be with an extract kit? I did it and even with late addition of the LME my beer is dark. So I figure to scorched the wort boiling that long. Thanks for the help! Cheers.

To the OP, thanks for this thread. I've been brewing since October of last year. I have 1 PM out my belt the rest have been kits. Not really sure I want to make the jump to all grain. But I do want go make great beer. Brew On!

BTW here's a like to the kit's instructions
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/FixedGear_Pro_Lakefront.pdf

cheesehed007 said:

I have a question for you all. Yesterday (8/10) I brewed up Northern Brewer's Lakefront Brewing 's Fixed Gear kit. In the instructions it said "Lakefront recommends a 90 min boil" I'm wondering what would the benefit of a 90 min boil be with an extract kit? I did it and even with late addition of the LME my beer is dark. So I figure to scorched the wort boiling that long. Thanks for the help! Cheers.
To the OP, thanks for this thread. I've been brewing since October of last year. I have 1 PM out my belt the rest have been kits. Not really sure I want to make the jump to all grain. But I do want go make great beer. Brew On!
BTW here's a like to the kit's instructions
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/FixedGear_Pro_Lakefront.pdf

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The only thing I can think of for a 90 Minute boil would be hops.

BxBrewer said:

Some would think that sparging the steeping grains is moot. We're only trying to get as much color and flavor out of them. not sugars. Again to me its all about going the extra mile on brew day. I bring up a small amount of water to 170 to sparge with. It's simply rinsing the grains.

My boil volumes change very little. In the end your still left with 5 gal if doing full boils. In our case Steep small and brew big. After we're done steeping and rinsing the grains. We then fill our boil pot to boil levels ie partial boils or full boils.

Click to expand...

I'm doing full boils and it can take some time for my kettle to get to a boil... About 40 min maybe? I never really thought about steeping in less my full boil volume, but this makes sense to me... So to save time I figure I could steep my grains on the stovetop as I start bringing my kettle to a boil. Im assuming there are no negatives to doing this, but I thought I'd bring it up so, if there are any issues, someone could point them out before I try this out .

MisterGreen said:

The only thing I can think of for a 90 Minute boil would be hops.

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Fist hop add was at 60 min. That's what threw me off when I read over the sheet... Thanks for the reply. Cheers!

cheesehed007 said:

Fist hop add was at 60 min. That's what threw me off when I read over the sheet... Thanks for the reply. Cheers!

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Okay, then that's strange.

Jiffy Mixer

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great tip thanks for the info I need to pick one up

all the best

S_M

KepowOb said:

I'm doing full boils and it can take some time for my kettle to get to a boil... About 40 min maybe? I never really thought about steeping in less my full boil volume, but this makes sense to me... So to save time I figure I could steep my grains on the stovetop as I start bringing my kettle to a boil. Im assuming there are no negatives to doing this, but I thought I'd bring it up so, if there are any issues, someone could point them out before I try this out .

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That is my procedure. As soon as I have the grains steeping, I start up my outdoor propane cooker to bring 3.5-4 gallons to boil. Once the steeping is done and the grains rinsed, I add the liquid to the brewpot. At that point I may add water to bring it up to a full boil capacity if needed.

steveoc said:

That is my procedure. As soon as I have the grains steeping, I start up my outdoor propane cooker to bring 3.5-4 gallons to boil. Once the steeping is done and the grains rinsed, I add the liquid to the brewpot. At that point I may add water to bring it up to a full boil capacity if needed.

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Same with me, although I use a hot plate . You can see pics of my brew setup on page 2.

I have always steeped my specialty grains in 6 gallons, sparged with 1 gallon and then bring that to boil. What is the advantage to partial stepping?

I think the main advantage is time. I can get smaller quantities of water to desired steeping temperatures more quickly and hold it in the desired temperature window. Meanwhile the outdoor cooker is going at full blast bringing it up to boil quickly without a worry of exceeding 170 degrees. That being said, I understand that temperatures are not too critical with steeping.

Other than that, it is a workflow that will lend itself nicely into partial mash when I begin experimenting with it.

BxBrewer said:

Advanced Extract Brewing “AEB”


A different way of brewing extract beer.
One of the biggest improvements I've made to my brewing thats not really talked about a lot. Is using a ultra light extract as your base and use the steeping grains for the color and flavor. 90% of the beers i make today are done this way. Porters,stouts,ambers and pales.

Click to expand...

Hey Bx thanks for starting this thread! Lots of great info for beginners like me already. I have about 7 extract batches under my belt and 1 partial mash.

I was wondering what the grain bill might look like for a darker beer using ultra light extract. Must of the recipes I've made from common sites only call for 1-1.5lbs of steeping grains. Are you able to get your color out of that?

Thanks again

KepowOb said:

But I have a 2-year old and I've realised long brew days with them around, even when SWMBO is watching him, isn't a great idea.

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You can easily switch to smaller batch AG using the BIAB method, and do it while watching your kid.

Hey, I'm all for bringing new brewers into the fold and folks doing whatever they think is easiest or most fun, but the idea of "advanced extract brewing" confuses me, and I absolutely mean no offense. It seems to me most folks sticking with extract/partial mash have, one, never actually brewed all grain and/or, two, don't know that they can go AG using the same exact equipment used for their extract batches. In my experience, AG is easier, much cheaper, more fun, and provides the brewer much more control over their final product. I'd say jumping into AG BIAB is advanced, while ensuring your extract is fresh is common sense.

Regardless, cheers to all and happy brewing!!

muddybrew said:

Hey Bx thanks for starting this thread! Lots of great info for beginners like me already. I have about 7 extract batches under my belt and 1 partial mash.

I was wondering what the grain bill might look like for a darker beer using ultra light extract. Must of the recipes I've made from common sites only call for 1-1.5lbs of steeping grains. Are you able to get your color out of that?

Thanks again

Click to expand...

It is not just the quantity of grains, but it is also the grain themselves. Darker grains yield darker colors.

Good examples of grain bills for darker (and many other types of beer) may be found in Zainasheff and Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. They start with a limited palette of base extracts: light, pale ale, and pilsner with additions of munich and wheat extracts.

Their American Stout starts with 10.7 pounds of light LME with 1 pound of roasted barley, .75 pounds of chocolate malt, and .75 pounds of 40L crystal.

I tend to keep Light and Pale Ale LME around with small amounts of munich and wheat as adjuncts. I get my variety from a large selection of grains (which makes having a grain mill vital—especially since I live in the middle of nowhere).

Originally Posted by meegs
Thanks Denny. It was probably 2 months after I won the kit that I brewed it, and there were 3 containers of "Northern Brewer Gold Malt Syrup." One thing I noticed right away because the extract is packaged in clear milk type jugs, is that one of the 3 was significantly darker than the other two, which made me think it might be getting oxidized. I found all three to be tightly sealed with a foil type material under the caps, but who know, perhaps some O2 was getting into that one container. Anyhow, you're right, it could be the extract was not in optimal condition and that impacted the ferment.

Nice to see homebrewing rock stars such as yourself out here trolling on the forums and replying to threads. Thanks again. Ken.
Thanks for the kind words, Ken, but I'm just a homebrewer like evrybody else here.

Extracts are frequently less fermentable than AG, especially something like "Gold", which likely has Munich malt and a pretty good % of crystal. When I was helping NB design kits from my recipes I had them add a lb. of sugar to the kits in order to increase the fermentability and finish at the same FG as rhe AG versions.
__________________

Nice slice of solid info from the forum here guys. Notice the part that talks about the flavored extract not having enough fermentable sugars. Then adding in fermentable to compensate ? Sound familiar? this is why I use ultra light LME and use my steeping grains for color. Also why I keep the extra light DME on hand to boost if needed.

Using a refractometer is key during the boil. You can check the gravity at any point. But but but ! A refractometer will also include un fermentable sugars as well ! This nails home the dreaded 1.020 FG we all have ran into and how to get around it.

All grain , want to give it a shot ? Give a 1 gal batch a try. It only costs about 8 bucks for Most recipes. No extra equipment needed other than a 1 gal jug to ferment in.

Brewing all grain doesn't automatically make better beer or make you a better brewer. 1,5,10 gal, BiAB all takes the same about of time. Just less setup,clean up time for smaller batches. I don't want this thread to go south on a debate between the different styles of brewing. All styles of brewing have there own section on HBT to discuss there processes.

steveoc said:

It is not just the quantity of grains, but it is also the grain themselves. Darker grains yield darker colors.

Good examples of grain bills for darker (and many other types of beer) may be found in Zainasheff and Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. They start with a limited palette of base extracts: light, pale ale, and pilsner with additions of munich and wheat extracts.

Their American Stout starts with 10.7 pounds of light LME with 1 pound of roasted barley, .75 pounds of chocolate malt, and .75 pounds of 40L crystal.

I tend to keep Light and Pale Ale LME around with small amounts of munich and wheat as adjuncts. I get my variety from a large selection of grains (which makes having a grain mill vital—especially since I live in the middle of nowhere).

Click to expand...

How about Morebeers famed B3 stout ? Nice roasty and dark. Here is the ingredient sheet. It also uses ultra light LME in the bill.

http://morebeer.com/images/file.php?file_id=1428

Brulosopher said:

You can easily switch to smaller batch AG using the BIAB method, and do it while watching your kid.

Hey, I'm all for bringing new brewers into the fold and folks doing whatever they think is easiest or most fun, but the idea of "advanced extract brewing" confuses me, and I absolutely mean no offense. It seems to me most folks sticking with extract/partial mash have, one, never actually brewed all grain and/or, two, don't know that they can go AG using the same exact equipment used for their extract batches. In my experience, AG is easier, much cheaper, more fun, and provides the brewer much more control over their final product. I'd say jumping into AG BIAB is advanced, while ensuring your extract is fresh is common sense.

Regardless, cheers to all and happy brewing!!

Click to expand...

I don't think BIAB would be any better than what I'm currently doing, as far as having my little man around. I don't see it as being any worse either though. I agree that AG can have advantages over Extract, but that isn't really what this discussion is about. We're looking to find ways to make the best extract beer we can by learning how to work around the limitations (or perhaps debunking some of the perceived limitations). As a few people here have already said, they do both AG and extract, and for those of us who haven't done AG yet, it doesnt mean we won't, just that, while we are using extract, we'd like to get the best possible results from it.


Back onto the subject, I either heard on a podcast, or read somewhere recently (sorry, I can't remember for the life of me), that adding a small amount of base malts can really help an extract brew out. In a way they were talking about doing very small partial mashes, by adding in a pound or so of 2-row or whatever base malt the AG recipe was using, to the steeping grains, and pretty much aiming for a "steep" at 152. They also said to remove a certain amount of your base malt extract, as you were effectively replacing it... Though I forget the conversion to figure out how much to remove.

The idea behind it is that extract doesn't carry much of the original flavour of the grains, and that by adding a pound or so of the base malt to the steep/mash can make a huge difference. It seemed that they didn't want to turn all your recipes into partial mashes, as the amount of base malt was very small, but just make a slightly bigger steep, and doing it at the proper mash temp. Anyone ever tried this, or have any thoughts on it?