Kansas City, MO Water Profile help

I've never used brewing salts as I've been told the water profile for Kansas City, MO is pretty good for brewing most any style. I've only used campden tablets to knock out the chlorine/chloramine on past brews. As I've progressed in home-brewing, I'm certainly becoming more interested in water profile and fitting it to a style with appropriate additions. I'm using Bru n' Water software and finding it difficult to get a clear idea on what I need to add because the KC, MO water report doesn't show everything I need to know.

I went ahead and ordered a test kit from Ward Labs and once it arrives I'll send it off. I'll share the results on this thread when I receive it back (I'm on Jackson County - KC, MO water for those in the same boat).

Water profile for Kansas City, MO is posted here:

https://www.kcwaterservices.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/wqr2013.pdf

What are your thoughts on this water ? Specifically, what additions would you recommend for hoppier profile beers, belgian styles (specifically saison, wit, pale), darker styles, lighter styles (kolsch, blonde), and wheats.

I also read a good article here:
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/310-brewing-water-tips-from-the-pros

and here

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2008/09/i-think-that-water-treatment-has-made.html

Appreciate any advice if you brew with a similar water profile. Otherwise, I guess I'll try to figure it out on my own and post what I learn on this thread. Thanks !

Test kit arrived today (I ordered it last week, actually). Says I'll get results within one day after they receive it. Sending off today. I'll post results when I get the data back.

Received the results. Interested in feedback anyone might have on additions I should use for Belgian styles (Blonde, saison, tripel, quad), IPAs, lighter american styles, wheats, stouts, etc. (for people in Jackson County KC, MO, this is probably what you have):
pH 9.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 211
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.35
Cations / Anions, me/L / 3.6 /3.3
Sodium, Na 28
Potassium, K 6
Calcium, Ca 29
Magnesium, Mg 6
Total Hardness, CaCO3 98
Nitrate, NO3-N 3.9 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 27
Chloride, Cl 15
Carbonate, CO3 22
Bicarbonate, HCO3 28
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 59
Total Phosphorus, P 0.50
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

Good data....I started to look into water chemistry but decided for a 5 gallon batch it wasn't going to make a whole lot of difference with treating...I do use a water filter to remove chlorine and such....but KC Water has been pretty solid for me have medals to back it up.

I'm curious to hear others opinion on the subject based on the numbers you posted

I will say Bryce Schaefter, who is starting up Cinder Block Brewery did a little water presentation for our club up North and it was pretty impressive. I would try reaching out to him

It looks like we have pretty middle of the road water. According to Palmer, we would have a mash pH of 5.75 with 100% base malt. To brew something like that you would want to lower the mash pH a bit, and for a beer with lots of dark roasted grains you would want to bump the pH up. A beer with a small amount of lightly toasted grains would probably be right on the money.

Also looks like we're pretty low in Sulfate, which can accentuate bitterness, so maybe could be beneficial to add some of that to IPAs. We are also low in magnesium, which is an important yeast nutrient, so probably every beer could benefit from more of that.

More here: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html

http://www.amazon.com/Water-A-Comprehensive-Guide-Brewers/dp/0937381993

Roughly where are you in KC. If you are far from me, maybe I'll get a water report too, and we can see how much variance there is in the city. I'm in Waldo area, south KC.

I'm in roughly the same area as you. Near Waldo/Brookside/Plaza - South KC.

I've been messing around with various water calculators and am curious what those out there have found successful/accurate. Using BruNwater spreadsheet but it's fairly complicated and I'm not sure I'm filling it out accurately. The one on brewersfriend seems very simple. Any thoughts out there ?

My water report from Ward Labs - fwiw, I live near 435 and Wornall.

pH 9.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 167
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.28
Cations / Anions, me/L 2.6 / 2.7
Sodium, Na 27
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 24
Magnesium, Mg 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 68
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 28
Chloride, Cl 8
Carbonate, CO3 14
Bicarbonate, HCO3 15
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 36

What I do is use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet (if it's too complicated, post over on the AHA forum - Dr. Martin Brungard will answer any question you have). From that, I've figured out to use lactic acid to lower my ridiculously high pH down to around 6. I also use 0.25 g/gal CaCl2 to get the calcium I need for yeast health and flocculation. I like to keep it simple.

Don't forget that since Ward Labs provides S04 as So4-S that you need to multiply your number by three for the spreadsheets. That's actually moderately high sulfate level, and you may find it a bit too much for light beers like cream ales or light lagers.

Pretty good basic water- I'm jealous!

jesserizzo said:

Also looks like we're pretty low in Sulfate, which can accentuate bitterness, so maybe could be beneficial to add some of that to IPAs. We are also low in magnesium, which is an important yeast nutrient, so probably every beer could benefit from more of that.

More here: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html

http://www.amazon.com/Water-A-Comprehensive-Guide-Brewers/dp/0937381993

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When you read his water report, you should be careful to note that the 'sulfate' is reported as SO4-S, which will need to be multiplied by 3 to get sulfate as SO4. Using this, that brings my sulfate to 84ppm. This is in the acceptable range for normal beers (50-150ppm per Palmer). EDIT: Yoop beat me to it!

Also, that book has not been released. I've talked to Palmer myself about it - seems it just keeps getting pushed back. It was supposed to be this spring, then this September, now I think it's next spring...

Yooper said:

Don't forget that since Ward Labs provides S04 as So4-S that you need to multiply your number by three for the spreadsheets. That's actually moderately high sulfate level, and you may find it a bit too much for light beers like cream ales or light lagers.

Pretty good basic water- I'm jealous!

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Thanks, good to know. I love me some hoppy beers.

AmandaK said:

Also, that book has not been released. I've talked to Palmer myself about it - seems it just keeps getting pushed back. It was supposed to be this spring, then this September, now I think it's next spring...

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Didn't even notice the "preorder" button on Amazon. I had first heard of the book so long ago it didn't occur to me in wasn't out yet. Thanks

My water is much harder than yours--and the carbonate is not balanced by the minerals--quite alkaline water here in southern Wisconsin. My water is very suited to dark beers. I contacted Dan Carey brewmaster/owner of New Glarus Brewing a few years back sharing how much I enjoyed their beer--especially a Pils they had recently released and asked how they handle the water around here; I'm about 20 miles from New Glarus. He was great and wrote back a long paragraph--though he said it could have written 20 pages.

They use sour wort from naturally occurring lactic acid from lactobacillus for treating their water in the mash and kettle when they need to have a lower residual alkalinity (e.g.-lighter beers with our water). He mentioned most breweries use some sort of acid when needed, lactic, phosphoric, hydrochloric, sulfuric, etc.. I've been using 88% food grade lactic and Palmer's spreadsheet since then to get a target residual alkalinity for every beer I make--the results have been great! Doesn't really get at your specific water profile, but I thought it was interesting related information.

AmandaK said:

My water report from Ward Labs - fwiw, I live near 435 and Wornall.

pH 9.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 167
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.28
Cations / Anions, me/L 2.6 / 2.7
Sodium, Na 27
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 24
Magnesium, Mg 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 68
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 28
Chloride, Cl 8
Carbonate, CO3 14
Bicarbonate, HCO3 15
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 36

What I do is use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet (if it's too complicated, post over on the AHA forum - Dr. Martin Brungard will answer any question you have). From that, I've figured out to use lactic acid to lower my ridiculously high pH down to around 6. I also use 0.25 g/gal CaCl2 to get the calcium I need for yeast health and flocculation. I like to keep it simple.

Click to expand...

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I'll be purchasing some lactic acid on my next trip to the LBHS . Assuming this is why most of my darker ales turn out great and lighter beers seem to be off or slightly astringent at times. With that in mind, I think a very simple approach is add gypsum for the hoppier styles, lactic acid/CaCl2 for the lighter styles, and keep the water pretty much in line (with an addition of CaCl2) for the darker ales. Sound about right ?

kchomebrew said:

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I'll be purchasing some lactic acid on my next trip to the LBHS . Assuming this is why most of my darker ales turn out great and lighter beers seem to be off or slightly astringent at times. With that in mind, I think a very simple approach is add gypsum for the hoppier styles, lactic acid/CaCl2 for the lighter styles, and keep the water pretty much in line (with an addition of CaCl2) for the darker ales. Sound about right ?

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That's pretty much what I do minus the gypsum for hoppy styles. I also add Campden tablets for every brew - KCMO likes to put chloromines in the water - makes a nice Band-Aid beer.

I was on a Boulevard tour a few weeks back and the brewer mentioned how KCs water was just great for beer. Some folks had questions about water and he said to just use it from the tap and don't worry about it.

ealu-scop said:

I was on a Boulevard tour a few weeks back and the brewer mentioned how KCs water was just great for beer. Some folks had questions about water and he said to just use it from the tap and don't worry about it.

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That is a gross oversimplification of what they do for water treatment. Also, the brewers don't lead tour groups.

ealu-scop said:

I was on a Boulevard tour a few weeks back and the brewer mentioned how KCs water was just great for beer. Some folks had questions about water and he said to just use it from the tap and don't worry about it.

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Its good for brewing AFTER a rather involved process, which is simplified in this article: http://inkkc.com/content/water-water-everywhere-in-your-favorite-brew/

As-is, out of the faucet, its not suitable for brewing.

highgravitybacon said:

As-is, out of the faucet, its not suitable for brewing.

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Well if you like plastic phenolics - then yes, this water is great straight out of the faucet.