Why not more high AA bittering hops?

I've noticed that the high AA bittering hops are typically only used with very hoppy beers like IPAs. Why aren't they used more in lesser amounts instead of 5-7% hops like Cascades or Centennial? It would seem like you would get more for your money that way.

Mike

I do this all the time with a neutral high AA bittering hop like Magnum or Galena for the bittering addition.

There's some concern they add a harsh bitterness.

McGarnigle said:

There's some concern they add a harsh bitterness.

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Entirely dependent on variety, though. Chinook is known for being rather harsh, while Galena and Magnum are quite appropriate with a smooth bitterness.

Because not too long ago hop prices were low enough that hops could be used in rediculous proportions. Times have changed and what you are inquiring about has gotten much notice however, some recipes don't transition well.

Part, perhaps only small however, of the price issues were wttributed directly to farms trading in the lower alpha products for higher alpha varieties that would process well into extracts. At one point, it was rumnored that many of the C varietals would become scarce as a result of this practice.

The other important thing in hops is the co-humulone amount, not just the humulone resins. The co-humulones are important in the "smoothness" in the taste. Many high AA hops have high co-humulones, too, so they are "harsher".

That's why some of the "newer" high AA hops like magnum are less harsh- they have high AA but low co-humulones. Ray Daniels book, "Designing Great Beers" has a long discussion on all of this, and why some still use the Noble hops for bittering, flavor, and aroma when they really don't "need" to for the bittering.

I've been reading up on beta acids and cohumulones. It looks like Warrior or Magnum would be a perfect substitute for bittering where most recipes call for lower AA hops.

Mike

To add to the already mentioned reasons, in homebrewing, with high AA hops, a small miscalculation can have drastic results. Example if you need 1/4oz of 16%AA hops, which is about 7 grams, and you get around 9 grams, thats quite a difference. For the same recipe you would need 1 oz of a 4%AA hop, if you are off 2 grams, 30 instead of 28, not such a big deal.
Now all of this means nothing if you have an accurate enough scale, but many homebrewers do not.

Instead of using more of a lower AA bittering hops, I'm using Nugget at 13%AA next weekend. I thought by using less hops at a higher AA that I was accomplishing the end result but with less hops. The second/final addition at 20 minutes for me is 1oz of cascade at 4.9%AA.

I'll let you know how it turns out considering all the input everyone else put in the thread regarding co-humulone .

Nugget should be good. It's cohumulone is 24-30% according to the wiki.


I can see where small errors can have big results. Is there a decent scale for a reasonable price available anywhere?

Mike

flyangler18 said:

I do this all the time with a neutral high AA bittering hop like Magnum or Galena for the bittering addition.

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Perle is a good dual purpose hop as well. Not so high in the AA department though. Perle hops are in the 8-9% range.

I love Magnum hops for bittering. I'd like to try Warrior hops. They're somewhere's near 15%.

blk94f150 said:

Is there a decent scale for a reasonable price available anywhere?

Mike

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i got one similar to this one at target for about $25
I use it for measuring my specialty grains as well. I have a regular old spring scale for my base grains.

As a side note: I measure all my hops in grams, 7 14 21 28 grams for 1/4 1/2 3/4 and 1ounce respectively. At portions that small I find the gram scale a better measurement.

I use Magnum and Warrior in small amounts all the time, especially in my stouts.

For a cheap scale with good resolution go to a liquor store in the hood or your nearest head shop and you will find exactly what you need labeled as a "jewelry" scale

jmilton1987 said:

For a cheap scale with good resolution go to a liquor store in the hood or your nearest head shop and you will find exactly what you need labeled as a "jewelry" scale

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You can order these online too.

I use Columbus for bittering in most of my beers.

About the scale, if found one on ebay, it was 10 dollars shipped to my house. It measures down to one hundredth of a gram! It seems fairly accurate.

I bought this one, but it was a buy it now.

0.01gx 200g DIGITAL GRAM POCKET BALANCE WEIGHING SCALES - eBay (item 160346418713 end time Jul-09-09 20:31:00 PDT)

Just about every beer I make uses between 1/4-1/2 oz. of Magnum as the 'starting point' for the IBUs (added @ ~60 min remaining). I very often don't add anything else at 60 min. Then I get all the remaining IBUs from FWH or later additions of lower AA% hops.

I've also used Centennial and Sorachi Ace. In the case of Centennial it has always been with hoppy flavor/aroma brews so I didn't need much for bittering because I was adding so much for the flavor/aroma.

Anybody know the cohumulone content of Sorachi Ace? Info on this hop is scarce.

blk94f150 said:

Nugget should be good. It's cohumulone is 24-30% according to the wiki.


I can see where small errors can have big results. Is there a decent scale for a reasonable price available anywhere?

Mike

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I bought a "America's biggest loser" edition Scale at BedBath&Beyond for 20.00 two weeks ago. It measures up to 7lbs, has a tear feature and it pretty small.

flyangler18 said:

Entirely dependent on variety, though. Chinook is known for being rather harsh, while Galena and Magnum are quite appropriate with a smooth bitterness.

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+1

Galena is a highly underrated hop in my opinion.

blk94f150 said:

I've noticed that the high AA bittering hops are typically only used with very hoppy beers like IPAs. Why aren't they used more in lesser amounts instead of 5-7% hops like Cascades or Centennial? It would seem like you would get more for your money that way.

Mike

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We tend to think in terms of AAs, but beta acids also matter to bittering. The alpha:beta ratio changes the character of the bitterness in a beer. Listen to John Palmer's podcast "What is an IBU, Really?" for some interesting commentary.

Magnum is in the realm of 2:1 alpha:beta. Nugget is 2.5 or 3:1 and Warrior is around 3:1; Galena is a bit more balanced, in the 1.5:1 range, give or take.

So if your recipe calls for, say, EKGs, Centennial, or Fuggles (2:1ish or a bit lower), Magnum or Galena would be a decent sub just in terms of maintaining the a:b balance.

But if your recipe used Cascades, Crystal, Hallertauer or Saaz (1:1ish, or even slightly beta-heavy for Cascades) then you're going to be throwing off your ratios substantially by using most of the higher-alpha hops.