jasonfitzg
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I can confirm the 1318 bit on haziness...also, skip the whirfloc.
Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone
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Ive got one that turned out better than I expected if you want something to work off
Sure man, I'll take a starting point.
KindofBlues71
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Looks delicious! Why skip the whirlfloc?
Whirlfloc should help the yeast flocculate out which you don't want for this beer. The yeast is what helps give the beer it's haziness, which Julius has and we believe it to be the yeast causing the haziness.
Whirlfloc shouldn't have any effect on the yeast. It's a kettle fining designing to help remove break material (protein) from the kettle. Cold-side finings like gelatin and isinglass do help to drop yeast out though.
You're right, got the two mixed up!
I'm fermenting a batch now that's sort of a Heady/Julius cross. Julius base malts plus some extra stuff, Citra/Galaxy/Magnum hops, Vermont Ale yeast. Just a first shot at getting somewhere close to the Treehouse style.
I was drinking a Green last night and just wondering how they get that peachy/mango base in everything they do. They mix up the dry hop but are able to keep that same flavor. Is that because they're just using a similar strata of hops, that all have that mango character. Or is it the base beer? The yeast? Then the hops augment the base mango flavor?
I was drinking a Green last night and just wondering how they get that peachy/mango base in everything they do. They mix up the dry hop but are able to keep that same flavor. Is that because they're just using a similar strata of hops, that all have that mango character. Or is it the base beer? The yeast? Then the hops augment the base mango flavor?
hopsandhops
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I agree. All the hoppy TH beers I've had all have a distinct hop profile similarity. I wondered if they have a base hop blend that they add and subtract from. Green is a great example; it says on the can it uses a bunch of Galaxy, but it doesn't scream galaxy to me and it tastes like treehouse all the way.
I recently started researching golden naked oats and the description says that it can lend a berry note. I was probably going to swap out some flaked oats for some golden naked oats on my next batch.
Any chance they're doing some kind of funny business somewhere along the way? I've heard John Kimmich from The Alchemist talk about some interesting, non-standard ways of hopping that they do. Could Treehouse be adding anything out of the box to their beers? Actual fruit? Something that gives it that strong Mango flavor, that also seems to fall out after a certain number of weeks?
If you look at this Hoppy Thing recipe from Nate Lanier, the only thing that should give you something close to a regular Treehouse beer is the hops. And that's assuming that the recipe he provided is supposed to be a regular Treehouse mango bomb. It might not be.
I think this from kaz4121 is very true. I would just add, how you handle the hops (gently) and how well you protect the beer from Oxygen. Which is probably true for most beers, but you need to be as close you can be to 100% on each of these categories for a pale beer like the Treehouse beers.
If you look at this Hoppy Thing recipe from Nate Lanier, the only thing that should give you something close to a regular Treehouse beer is the hops. And that's assuming that the recipe he provided is supposed to be a regular Treehouse mango bomb. It might not be.
I think this from kaz4121 is very true. I would just add, how you handle the hops (gently) and how well you protect the beer from Oxygen. Which is probably true for most beers, but you need to be as close you can be to 100% on each of these categories for a pale beer like the Treehouse beers.
Golden naked oats are the only crystal-ish malt I would ever use in an IPA. Stuff is delicious
hopsandhops
Well-Known Member
Do you mix them with flaked oats? Or replace flaked oats?
Do you get any "berry" notes from them?
ultravista
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Subscribing
Surly uses golden naked oats in Abrasive (and some of their other recipes).
I would not sub them for flaked oats. They have very different fermentability. I think of them as a crystal malt
I definitely can get some nutty and berry notes. Like granola. I've used to to 8oz in 5gal before, but would limit to 4oz in an IPA
hopsandhops
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Thanks! I'm going to try some in my next batch
This grain sounds very interesting to me. I'd like to try it in a recipe I'm putting together for a lower gravity "session" IPA. I currently have 12 oz of Carastan as my crystal. I was originally thinking of replacing all of it with the Golden naked oats until I just read your comment. So you are saying that amount might not give me a desirable result?
A friend of mine that is a Head Brewer was talking with me yesterday about a "New England/Vermont" water profile for an IPA or Pale Ale and that "pillowy, soft" mouthfeel. He said that they are known to use higher amounts of calcium, so well over the 100 recommendation via Bru'N and a little lighter on the sulfates. Might be something to try in addition to the grain bill everyone's been talking about.
Green is Galaxy + an unknown US variety. I would assume that they use a similar set of hops for msot of their beers to get that slight resemblence between each. Obiously each hop bill is different though.
AS for the underlying peachy flavor - maybe from the yeast
Green is Galaxy + an unknown US variety. I would assume that they use a similar set of hops for msot of their beers to get that slight resemblence between each. Obiously each hop bill is different though.
AS for the underlying peachy flavor - maybe from the yeast
I'm wondering if it's Galaxy and Columbus...I just brewed a hoppy blonde with Columbus and Galaxy with a 5 minute addition and a 170 degree hopstand. I'm wondering if the peachy flavor is from Conan at a low temp. Everyone says they get juicy fruit bubblegum esters from TH beers so I'm thinking it's the yeast which I get bubblegum from wlp002 but I'm guessing it's Conan.
Also the one thing I got from my first TH brew that I still get is the smell of whole cone hops. I noticed it when I had Eureka for the first time. It smelled like an all Citra pale I did with all pellets then dry hopped with whole cone Citra hops.
Green is Galaxy + an unknown US variety. I would assume that they use a similar set of hops for msot of their beers to get that slight resemblence between each. Obiously each hop bill is different though.
AS for the underlying peachy flavor - maybe from the yeast
I'm wondering if it's Galaxy and Columbus...I just brewed a hoppy blonde with Columbus and Galaxy with a 5 minute addition and a 170 degree hopstand. I'm wondering if the peachy flavor is from Conan at a low temp. Everyone says they get juicy fruit bubblegum esters from TH beers so I'm thinking it's the yeast which I get bubblegum from wlp002 but I'm guessing it's Conan.
Also the one thing I got from my first TH brew that I still get is the smell of whole cone hops. I noticed it when I had Eureka for the first time. It smelled like an all Citra pale I brewed but dry hopped with whole cone hops.
bovineblitz
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I just picked up some of their latest stuff. Their IIPA, Haze, is straight up sour, even to the point that it's not all that good. It's got that parmesan cheese flavor I get from hops + acidity. It does make the tropical/citrus hoppy notes really pop though.
Maybe this is a slighty off batch, but I think one of the keys to their style is that they have a lower pH than most IPAs. Water chemistry in general seems to be the trick.
Maybe this is a slighty off batch, but I think one of the keys to their style is that they have a lower pH than most IPAs. Water chemistry in general seems to be the trick.
I have definitely got an acidulated malt flavor from a few of their brews in the past. I've also got that flavor from Baby Genius by Bissell Brothers. I think there is a fine line there where it's noticeable. I had a can of Julius this summer that was very acidic as well.
I brewed an IPA for a competition that I used acid malt and nobody commented on it, and they liked it but that's all I could taste.
bovineblitz
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The Haze had to use more than acid malt, it's more acidic than a lot of gose. I imagine that they drop the pH with lactic acid or something. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if citric acid were involved, I bet that ups the perception of citrus.
beardown2489
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Wheat flour is one of the things that I've heard treehouse is using to improve the mouthfeel
Was that from an inside source?
12 oz would be a bit heavy for an IPA, assuming a 5gal batch (I like my IPAs dry). I wouldnt hesitate to use that much in something else though.
I have used 6oz in a session IPA where Im intentionally trying to not get it too dry though
May have been from the "Treehouse style IPAs thread"
FWIW, here's one Ive had kegged for a bit over 2 weeks now where I added wheat flour. Even took a pic with the flash and still zero light penetration. pretty damn orange
I've measured the pH of several of the Tree House IPAs. They usually clock in around 4.4-4.5. I've measure Maine Beer Dinner at 4.8. Don't have any other IPA measurements to compare to, but I think IPAs general fall around that range
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I'm drinking a fresh Green right now. It's almost like I can chew on it, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there's flour in it. In fact it has a chalky, dry, borderline astringent mouthfeel. It's also cloudy to the point that it's gimmicky, very grassy, and tart. The bitterness is moderate, and probably the best thing about it.
The hype isn't real, shocked to look this up and see it's a 100 on beeradvocate.
The Pale Ale, Lights On, is tart, but nicely fruity and well-balanced. Haze is a sour disaster, IMO. I wonder if they had a bad week brewing or something, because of the 3 beers I picked up, two of them would be firmly in the 'meh' category if I had made them.
But on topic, seems like the strategy is to make it comically hazy with starch, and acidify.
The hype isn't real, shocked to look this up and see it's a 100 on beeradvocate.
The Pale Ale, Lights On, is tart, but nicely fruity and well-balanced. Haze is a sour disaster, IMO. I wonder if they had a bad week brewing or something, because of the 3 beers I picked up, two of them would be firmly in the 'meh' category if I had made them.
But on topic, seems like the strategy is to make it comically hazy with starch, and acidify.
Calichusetts
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I doubt they use flour. Most IPAs in our region are hazy like treehouse (trillium for example) and don't use flour. Its called turbidity and is a result of fresh beer, yeast in suspension, no filtering that could drop out hop oils, flavors, aromas, and the amounts of hops used along with their oil content. We can of course to get that haze. I get a natural haze from the amount of hops I use that takes over a month to clear.
Not saying if treehouse does, it I highly doubt it. Breweries can produce highly turbid beers without flour so why add any or spend money on it? Sadly, some breweries don't even have the knowledge/equipment to produce clear beers.
Quote from Trillium's head brewer:
Anything we’ve done – i.e. cold conditioning temperatures at/just below freezing temperatures for extended periods of time, biofine (a clarifying agent) – to reduce haze has had a negative impact on aroma and flavor for our hop-forward beers. Aroma and flavor are the most important traits of a beer for us. Combine high hopping rates, hops with very high oil content and our house yeast/processes…you get unprecedented levels of haze. The first time we packaged double dry hopped Congress Street IPA, which uses a huge amount of Galaxy, a hop with one of the highest total oil contents available, I have to admit the appearance was a little jarring. It didn’t take us long to get accustomed to (and even enjoy) its appearance, but we can understand that people have a tough time with it.
Kimmich has also said that you can let a can of Heady sit for a month and it should clear but the taste will be different. This is why its hazy.
Not saying if treehouse does, it I highly doubt it. Breweries can produce highly turbid beers without flour so why add any or spend money on it? Sadly, some breweries don't even have the knowledge/equipment to produce clear beers.
Quote from Trillium's head brewer:
Anything we’ve done – i.e. cold conditioning temperatures at/just below freezing temperatures for extended periods of time, biofine (a clarifying agent) – to reduce haze has had a negative impact on aroma and flavor for our hop-forward beers. Aroma and flavor are the most important traits of a beer for us. Combine high hopping rates, hops with very high oil content and our house yeast/processes…you get unprecedented levels of haze. The first time we packaged double dry hopped Congress Street IPA, which uses a huge amount of Galaxy, a hop with one of the highest total oil contents available, I have to admit the appearance was a little jarring. It didn’t take us long to get accustomed to (and even enjoy) its appearance, but we can understand that people have a tough time with it.
Kimmich has also said that you can let a can of Heady sit for a month and it should clear but the taste will be different. This is why its hazy.
Calichusetts
Well-Known Member
I found some pics of my IPAs over the past year, with different yeasts but a similar hop profile and no filtering of any kind.
yeah. Ive used it in 2 IPAs and a hefe so far with good results. I figure its really not much different than just having excessive ground malt flour at the bottom of your grain container. It may not be what the pros do, but there is a hell of a lot of flour that gets made in those giant mills theyve got.
beardown2489
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A home brewer and tree house fanatic I trade with has said its one of the keys to their style
ultravista
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Perhaps Nate can chime-in on his water profile & amendments ...
doubtful!
Perhaps back to the wheat/flaked oat assumption then? Plus massive dry hop and poor flocc-ing yeast?
