RO water treatment for a Czech Pilsner

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

GTaylor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
199
Reaction score
8
Location
Avon
I'm looking at brewing a pilsner this weekend and wanted to know what additions to make to RO water, have done a google search and found nothing definitive.

Am currently reading through the Water book, but takes me a while to process that type of info.

Thanks
 
I usually do 1 tsp Calcium Chloride from the brew store for every 5 gallons of strike water, all in the mash.

Works great.
 
I'm looking at brewing a pilsner this weekend and wanted to know what additions to make to RO water, have done a google search and found nothing definitive.

Am currently reading through the Water book, but takes me a while to process that type of info.

Thanks

My most recent Bo-Pils water was built from 100% RO to:
24.4 Calcium
0.0 Magnesium
8.0 Sodium
11.3 Sulfate
37.8 Chloride

5.37 PH

Tastes great.
 
I'm looking at brewing a pilsner this weekend and wanted to know what additions to make to RO water, have done a google search and found nothing definitive.

Am currently reading through the Water book, but takes me a while to process that type of info.

Thanks

I am brewing a czech pils as well this weekend and have found peoples built water to be very different. Some go no sulfate, some add gypsum and then you have the moderately hard vs. soft water crowd. Braukaiser has some good info that I am applying to my profile but this will be a beer that will most likely be tweeked in the future. Good luck!
 
Add nothing but a little calcium chloride and whatever acid you need to get the proper mash pH. Absolutely DO NOT add alkali like chalk (which won't dissolve anyway), baking soda or slaked lime.
 
The Czech Pils I recently did used 8.5gal RO treated with
.5g Epsom Salt
.5g Chalk
.25g Baking Soda
.25g CaCl

Used Bru'n Water and BeerSmith for the calculations.

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Full volume mash (BIAB)......90min boil.....turned out excellent.

I'm surprised that including chalk and baking soda additions would work for a Pils grist. I do not recommend using those additions. In fact, the mash should have required a bit of acid to help drop the pH. Are you trolling?
 
For the O.P., the target water you're shooting for per 'Water' is found on the chart at the bottom of pages 156-157. To know what each thing is look back at charts on pgs 30 & 54. I've not done a Bo Pils but I'm guessing something between shierstein & mblank's suggestions would work fine. Pils or any very light beer is going to have very simple low impact water.
 
For a Czech pils a little CaCl2 is all that's needed as the original is made with very soft water. I use 67 mg/L which gives me 24 mg/L Ca++ and 43 mg/L Cl- both of which are considerably higher than Pilsen water. I find the extra chloride gives a fuller body which I like and the extra calcium may save me a lithotripsy some day. Mash pH is easily controlled with 2 - 3% sauermalz.
 
If you want an accurate profile, you should post the recipe (grains and water volumes specifically).

Anyway, Martin and AJ are correct in that this will need acid to lower the pH. Baking soda, lime, or chalk should not be used.
 
I'm surprised that including chalk and baking soda additions would work for a Pils grist. I do not recommend using those additions. In fact, the mash should have required a bit of acid to help drop the pH. Are you trolling?


Nope not trolling. It was an honest answer. Yes, I added 5ml Lactic for PH adjustment. I apologize for steering the OP in the wrong direction.
 
I dont use RO water, but for czech lagers i use portland's water out of the tap (Ca 2.0, HCO3 11.0, Mg 0.7, CO3 0.0, Na 3.4, SO4 0.4, K 0.2, Cl 3.0.) and just dechlorinate. I use acid malt to hit mash ph. Ive made around 50, Beers ferment out fully and seem to have the right hop/malt character; personally i think the softer the better, and prefer it to those that ive added calcium chloride.
 
Nope not trolling. It was an honest answer. Yes, I added 5ml Lactic for PH adjustment. I apologize for steering the OP in the wrong direction.

What they are not telling you is that

HLac + NaHCO3 ---> CO2 + H2O + Na+ + Lac-

2HLac + CaCO3 --> CO2 + H2O + Ca++ + 2Lac-

or, put another way, some of the acid you added for mash pH reduction went to convert bicarbonate and carbonate to CO2. You put these alkalis in and then you took them out. You swapped lactate for carbonate and biacarb. If your goal was to add some lactate ions then this is an OK way to do it.
 
.. personally i think the softer the better, and prefer it to those that ive added calcium chloride.
In principle I agree and so started experimenting with less and less CaCl2. I found that to my taste the beers were too thin when the chloride level got too low and so started using a bit more. Which is how I got to where I am today.
 
In principle I agree and so started experimenting with less and less CaCl2. I found that to my taste the beers were too thin when the chloride level got too low and so started using a bit more. Which is how I got to where I am today.

I was eagerly awaiting to see if the water gurus would answer the OP and once again they have given great info. Aj and Martin, you guys are awesome:mug:
 
Thanks for all the replies, looks like I just need to add some CaCl and a little acid to lower the pH.

If it makes any difference the recipe is pretty simple with 9.5lbs of pilsner malt and 0.5lb of caramel/crystal 10 for a 6 gallon batch, also it will be brewed using BIAB.

I am thinking 1g gypsum, 4g CaCl2 and 2ml lactic acid. According to ez water this should give me 42 Ca, 61 Cl, 18 SO4 with a pH of 5.51
 
Thanks for all the replies, looks like I just need to add some CaCl and a little acid to lower the pH.
In general, yes, but it depends.

If it makes any difference the recipe is pretty simple with 9.5lbs of pilsner malt and 0.5lb of caramel/crystal 10 for a 6 gallon batch, also it will be brewed using BIAB.
I assume that means all the water goes in at once?

I am thinking 1g gypsum, 4g CaCl2 and 2ml lactic acid. According to ez water this should give me 42 Ca, 61 Cl, 18 SO4 with a pH of 5.51

The molecular weight of calcium chloride is 110.98 mg/mmol so the calcium ion concentration from 4 g (4000 mg) in 6 gal is (4000/110.98)/(6*3.785) = 1.587 mmol/L. The molecular weight of calcium is 40 mg/mmol so we have 63.5 mg/L from the calcium chloride alone. If we assume the spreadsheet uses the molecular weight of the dihydrate then we would have 48 mg/L from the calcium chloride alone so there is something wrong with the spreadsheet calculation.

I won't say that you must not have sulfate in a Bohemian Pils but I will say that you will probably like the result better without it. I'd suggest you brew it for the first time without any and then experimentally add some in the glass while tasting it and if you like the result then by all means use it in the future.

Now as to pH and acid: were you to use a relatively acidic base malt, such as Weyermann's regular pils malt and a dark crystal such as their 60L in the amounts you have specified with the amounts of calcium salts you have specidfied, you hit a mash pH of close to 5.5 without any acid. OTOH if you use Weyermann's floor malted pils with 10L crystal you'd have a mash pH closer to 5.75 and would need 3.3 mL lactic acid or, better, a quarter pound (2.4%) sauermalz.

You'll probably use something more like the normal malt with a reasonably light crystal from which you could expect a mash pH of around 5.5 but note that all these numbers I've given rely on the 3.7 mEq/L calcium to provide 12 mEq protons. If you reduce the calcium, and I'd suggest you do to, say, 2 grams calcium chloride only, then you'd need 1.4 mL lactic acid or 1% (1.6 Oz = 47 grams) sauermalz.
 
I think that's fine but probably harder than Pils water. Might want pH a tad lower than that also, say 5.3-5.4.

So changing the additions to 0.5g CaSO4 and 0.5g CaCl2 with 5ml lactic acid brings me to 8 Ca, 7Cl, 9 SO4 with a pH 5.33, does this look better.

Thanks for your help
 
You'll probably use something more like the normal malt with a reasonably light crystal from which you could expect a mash pH of around 5.5 but note that all these numbers I've given rely on the 3.7 mEq/L calcium to provide 12 mEq protons. If you reduce the calcium, and I'd suggest you do to, say, 2 grams calcium chloride only, then you'd need 1.4 mL lactic acid or 1% (1.6 Oz = 47 grams) sauermalz.

Thanks for the info, gives me more to think about. This seems like the simplest way to go.
 
So changing the additions to 0.5g CaSO4 and 0.5g CaCl2 with 5ml lactic acid brings me to 8 Ca, 7Cl, 9 SO4 with a pH 5.33, does this look better.

Thanks for your help

5ml looks to me a lot according to my quick math (=low pH, assuming everything is put in mash) but if your calculator says good, go for it. It should be under the taste threshold.

There is one small caveat... there is a thought that Ca should be above 50ppm for yeast health and above 40 ppm for beerstone reduction. Keep in mind that the Pils water profile does have less... like the Ca in your profile. Anyway, sounds like you are good.
 
Back
Top