Calling all electricians and other saavy electrical engineers HELP!!!!

yeah, still. 9kA makes a bit of a flash and will move metal in an instant. The GFCI is likely to trip first as the jumper begins to make contact. It's not like he is using a large cabinet breaker and slamming the contacts into place to reduce the switching resistance.

OP, great man! glad to hear it all worked out for you. What GFCI kept popping and/or buzzing? the 110 or 220?

the 30amp 120/240 gfi initially tripped a few times and then would buzz occasionally in the beginning but seemed to stop. I didn't get a change to try the 110v through a gfi outlet however I'll attempt that for my brew tomorrow.

CodeRage said:

yeah, still. 9kA makes a bit of a flash and will move metal in an instant. The GFCI is likely to trip first as the jumper begins to make contact. It's not like he is using a large cabinet breaker and slamming the contacts into place to reduce the switching resistance.

OP, great man! glad to hear it all worked out for you. What GFCI kept popping and/or buzzing? the 110 or 220?

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A breaker is designed to instantaneously trip at 5X the rated current and may see upwards of 9kA for a fraction of a cycle, this is why branch circuit beakers are generally rated at 10kA.

The point I was trying to make is that the method he was using to test the circuit is not going to tell you if the circuit is actually functioning properly. It only takes 50mA to cause cardiac arrest...the "best" way would be to use a shunt resistor as you stated earlier. I would hate to see people read this and start testing in this manor and feel they are safe when in fact they very well may not be. There are just way to many different circumstances and assumptions to safely address this subject properly online so I think I will end this with the old adage "be safe out there"...

wihophead said:

There are just way to many different circumstances and assumptions to safely address this subject properly online so I think I will end this with the old adage "be safe out there"...

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+1

I'm not an electrician and you should probably never do anything I do, ever.

FWIW, (remember not an electrician) on my "normal" circuits that go to my main box (where neutral is bound to ground) crossing hot to ground does not trip anything. It will trip a gfci outlet/circuit. I'm crossing hot to ground by using a multimeter in the hot and ground ports of a "normal" outlet. So, is my entire house wired wrong?

bakins said:

+1

I'm not an electrician and you should probably never do anything I do, ever.

FWIW, (remember not an electrician) on my "normal" circuits that go to my main box (where neutral is bound to ground) crossing hot to ground does not trip anything. It will trip a gfci outlet/circuit. I'm crossing hot to ground by using a multimeter in the hot and ground ports of a "normal" outlet. So, is my entire house wired wrong?

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Uh... yeah. That would def be an open ground.

passedpawn said:

Uh... yeah. That would def be an open ground.

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So my entire house,which is less than 4 years old, that has passed inspection twice (once at building and once again with an addition - by a paid inspector, not just the county), is not grounded correctly? Just wondering if I need to call an electrician first thing tomorrow.

bakins said:

So my entire house,which is less than 4 years old, that has passed inspection twice (once at building and once again with an addition - by a paid inspector, not just the county), is not grounded correctly? Just wondering if I need to call an electrician first thing tomorrow.

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No
you say you are using a multi meter to short hot to ground? Not a good thing, if you have your meter set to measure current you'll burn up the fuse, if you are measuring resistance you are going to pop your meter....

Before you call out an electrician and get one of those three light socket testers for 5 bucks and test it yourself.

CodeRage said:

No
you say you are using a multi meter to short hot to ground? Not a good thing, if you have your meter set to measure current you'll burn up the fuse, if you are measuring resistance you are going to pop your meter....

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Not a multimeter, but a continuity tester (sorry was in a hurry when I typed the other):



Also, I got out one of my books and it says:

"To check for proper grounding, test between the shorter slot (hot) and the round hole (ground). If the tester lights up, there's probably proper grounding. It should also light when you test between the shorter slot and the cover plate screw." (From a supposed good source)

So, that's what I was talking about. (Maybe I'm being slow today and not explaining myself ). If you do that on a GFCI, it will trip.


(I should know better than discussing electricity on this board by now...)

You do not have a problem with the house wiring, just with the terminology you are using.
Testing an outlet by sticking the ends of the leads into a receptacle, whether hot to gnd, gnd to nuetral, or hot to nuetral is not shorting it. hot to gnd should be 120v, hot to nuetral should be 120 v. This type of meter will trip a gfci, as it has a solenoid in it.

Now it makes a lot more sense.... BTW in the trades we call that a wiggy

bakins said:

Not a multimeter, but a continuity tester (sorry was in a hurry when I typed the other):



Also, I got out one of my books and it says:

"To check for proper grounding, test between the shorter slot (hot) and the round hole (ground). If the tester lights up, there's probably proper grounding. It should also light when you test between the shorter slot and the cover plate screw." (From a supposed good source)

So, that's what I was talking about. (Maybe I'm being slow today and not explaining myself ). If you do that on a GFCI, it will trip.


(I should know better than discussing electricity on this board by now...)

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Hey no worries man.

If you measure from the 110 source to the ground (round peg) yes it should trip the gfci. It is expecting the current that is being used to light the bulb to be returned on the neutral (long slot) but it isn't. So it pop's. Thats a good thing. if you measure from the 110 to the neutral, the gfci shouldn't pop.

Make sense?

Sorry. I was misled by "I'm crossing hot to ground". Doing a continuity test from hot to ground wasn't what I read, but it is exactly what you wrote.

Why are you doing that?

CodeRage said:

Make sense?

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Yes, I already knew this, but I misspoke with multi-meter. (The very expensive thing we have at work has a continuity mode on it, but we generically call it the "multi-meter.") And the sarcasm about immediately calling an electrician didn't come across. (I'm an a-hole, a likable a-hole, but an a-hole nonetheless.) Was a long week....

So, basic point before this side-track,was that's it's perfectly fine and normal to split a GFCI 240V circuit into 110 circuits...

dont know that its caused by current from the bulb, neon aint it? but the solenoid picking up will definitely trip it. I have an older wiggy, no light, that trips the gfci. It is an actual "wiggy" brand. the above picture works the same but is actually vol-con made by a ideal

journeyman inside wireman ibew local 531

passedpawn said:

Sorry. I was misled by "I'm crossing hot to ground". Doing a continuity test from hot to ground wasn't what I read, but it is exactly what you wrote.

Why are you doing that?

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On a non-GFCI circuit, "doing a continuity test from hot to ground " will not trip anything. On a GFCI, it will, because the current did not return via the neutral. It's a quick way to test if a GFCI is wired correctly. I was beginning to wonder if the electrician who showed me the trick was playing a very bad joke on me ("that crazy somb*tch gonna burn his house down, yuck, yuck").

bakins said:

On a non-GFCI circuit, "doing a continuity test from hot to ground " will not trip anything. On a GFCI, it will, because the current did not return via the neutral. It's a quick way to test if a GFCI is wired correctly. I was beginning to wonder if the electrician who showed me the trick was playing a very bad joke on me ("that crazy somb*tch gonna burn his house down, yuck, yuck").

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It's been a real long week for me too brother. You sound okay to me electrically and personality wise.