Pliny clone - More Beer vs. AHS?

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MaxSpang

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I haven't tried either of these kits so I can't say which is better. If I was going to buy this kit today, however, I would PROBABLY choose the MoreBeer kit because of this statement:

This is THE original Pliny recipe, given to us by Vinnie at a talk he did in our showroom some years back and geared for homebrewers. While some of his methods have changed since then, the spirit of this beer hasn't. High bitterness with a dry malt finish combined with an intense hop flavor and aroma.
 
terrapinj said:
if you search around the recipe from Vinnie is posted in several threads

I'm not really looking for the recipe, just wanting to compare the two kits available.

I'm going to be buying one soon, I'd like to get the best!

I like that AHS has user comments available, all of which are positive. I can't find much feedback on the More Beer kit.
 
Pliny the elder is known as the best beer in the world and it's so simple. The original recipe is out there for a long time. It uses a base of 2-row and some wheat, crystal 40, Carapils, and corn sugar. The most complex thing about it is the hop schedule, which uses massive amounts of high aa hops. I never actually had one but I heard the bitterness is disturbing!
 
I'm not really looking for the recipe, just wanting to compare the two kits available.

I'm going to be buying one soon, I'd like to get the best!

I like that AHS has user comments available, all of which are positive. I can't find much feedback on the More Beer kit.

right on, just figured if you bought the ingredients per vinnies recipe you know you'd get the closest thing possible

:mug:
 
right on, just figured if you bought the ingredients per vinnies recipe you know you'd get the closest thing possible

:mug:

Thanks. I haven't converted to 100% AG yet, and from what I hear the recipe kits (around $60) are pretty close to the cost of the ingredients if I were to get an extract recipe. And according to More Beer, their version is THE recipe.


Farmhouse brewing supply has a Pliny hop pack for $12.99. The rest can be obtained in normal, non-kit form rather cheaply.

http://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=79

Assuming you do AG, it should cost you $30ish rather than $50 if you go the full kit route.

Thanks! This is good to know
 
I'd be shocked if the MoreBeer kit was the same as the original kit. They frequently sub ingredients as inventory dictates. I'd ask them before buying if that is of concern. It will also not be what RR is bottling at the moment as they keep changing the damn beer.

Of course none of it really matters as it will still be a very hoppy delight.
 
Thanks. I haven't converted to 100% AG yet, and from what I hear the recipe kits (around $60) are pretty close to the cost of the ingredients if I were to get an extract recipe. And according to More Beer, their version is THE recipe.

Well obviously, if you're brewing extract, it isn't THE recipe. I've been to Russian River and I can assure you, there weren't 55 gallon drums of LME about. :p

I'm sure they're both good approximations (which is all you're ever going to get via extract), so pick whichever is cheaper after shipping.
 
Actually THE recipe would require hop extract.

In any case, Vinnie is clear that he has never given out THE recipe so nobody has it. It also changes frequently.
 
I made the AHS kit and it is probably the best beer I have ever had (let alone made). Alpine Duet is a close second. I have had the real Pliny as well.

The real pliny was drier/less sweet than the AHS. This is more likely attribute to the brew process than the kit. I enjoyed the slight more sweetness.

We had ALOT of loss to the hops so make sure you use enough water to start.

But I have not tried the MoreBeer kit.
 
I am drinking the AHS kit right now, which is very good, very close to the original pliny, but I like the kit better!:mug:
 
I made the AHS kit and it is probably the best beer I have ever had (let alone made). Alpine Duet is a close second. I have had the real Pliny as well.

The real pliny was drier/less sweet than the AHS. This is more likely attribute to the brew process than the kit. I enjoyed the slight more sweetness.

We had ALOT of loss to the hops so make sure you use enough water to start.

Same here. It was way too bitter for my tastes, and I love hop bombs. I mean it was seriously over-the-top bitter. I had a serious problem racking this beer due to the huge amount of hops in it, then it clogged my keg poppits. It was all worth it though.
 
just tried the real pliney a few days ago thanks to a beer trading buddy (a member here) and loved it! so much that I ordered the AHS kit this morning.
 
I say get the MoreBeer kit... but that's just because they are my local store, and I'd like to see them thrive.
 
I an dry hopping my 2nd Pliny from the good folks at AHS. The first had to be the best IPA I have ever made. You should see the 2 inches of hops sitting on top of my secondary now. One week to go before the 2nd dry hop addition, can't wait to have them bottle conditioned. And the sample I tasted when I moved to 2ndary was pretty darn good.
 
Vinnie has said each time he releases the homebrew recipe, he tweaks the version he produces. As a result, there are a few versions out there.


1 version>
http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny the Elder clone PDF.pdf





another version>
14.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
0.65 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine
0.65 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
0.81 lb Corn Sugar


3.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] (90 min) Hops 168.4 IBU
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] (45 min) Hops 32.4 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (30 min) Hops 21.7 IBU
2.50 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Centennial [8.00 %] (0 min) Hops -

1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] (Dry Hop 12 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Centennial [9.10 %] (Dry Hop 12 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (Dry Hop 12 days) Hops -

0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
0.25 oz Centennial [9.10 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -

White Labs #WLP001
 
Somewhere in the current version there is Warrior and Cascade as well. Not sure how the percentages add into it. The gal gave me these five in this order.. IF that makes any difference.. Yes it was a hop bomb... but WOW.. so good.

Warrior
Centennial
Simcoe
Cascade
Columbus
 
Somewhere in the current version there is Warrior and Cascade as well.

No cascade. There's Amarillo in the dry hop.

Here's the info I have, which is all based on interviews I've heard with Vinnie.

The old recipe that had mash hops (and chinook) was changed because a local farmer wanted to buy their spent grain, and didn't want hops in the spent grain.

That lead to the recipe that you find on that PDF file from beerdujour. The big difference being Russian River doesn't bitter with hops in the 90min or 45min addition, they use hop extract to increase yield, and cut down on the vegetal flavor you get from cooking hops for 90min. The home brew equivalent is just bittering with CTZ or Warrior.

Vinnie most recently said he's added Amarillo to the dry hop schedule. It was just added on top of the current recipe, they didn't remove anything else.

So the closest I believe you can get would be:

2.80 oz Warrior [17.20 %] (90 min)
0.75 oz CTZ [13.90 %] (45 min)
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (30 min)
2.50 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (0 min)
1.00 oz Centennial [8.00 %] (0 min)

1.00 oz CTZ [13.90 %] (Dry Hop 12 days)
1.00 oz Centennial [9.10 %] (Dry Hop 12 days)
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (Dry Hop 12 days)
1.00 oz Amarillo (Dry Hop 12 days)

0.25 oz CTZ [13.90 %] (Dry Hop 5 days)
0.25 oz Centennial [9.10 %] (Dry Hop 5 days)
0.25 oz Simcoe [12.30 %] (Dry Hop 5 days)
0.25 oz Amarillo (Dry Hop 5 days)

Obviously subbing out the warrior for Hop Shot from Northern Brewer is another great alternative, and probably would be even closer. I'd also consider allowing the hops to steep hot (just put a lid on after you kill the flame). Russian River does a hot whirlpool, and those 0 minute hops are added then, so the hops do see some 200*+ temps for anywhere from 10-25minutes before they chill.
 
Having recently had the original on tap in San Diego and brewing the clone AG kit from Morebeer, I can tell you they are extremely close. You'd be hard pressed to tell them apart without side by side tastings. That's just my 2 cents.

For the record,the bitterness isn't 'disturbing', as someone said earlier. What makes Pliny great is the sheer flavor and aroma while still being drinkable. I could list many other beers with higher perceived bitterness and less hop flavor - Ruination being just one that comes to mind. Pliny is a liquid hop delivery vehicle!
 
Well, can't answer that comment Scottland. I was at RR Brewery yesterday. The waitress went back and looked at the notes. I don't think she had a reason to yank my chain.
 
Well, can't answer that comment Scottland. I was at RR Brewery yesterday. The waitress went back and looked at the notes. I don't think she had a reason to yank my chain.

They could be using it now, last i heard any Pliny recipe info was about 18 months ago. I don't think it's an integral part of the recipe though.
 
I have not brewed the extract version, but the AGO version from AHS is excellent. I'm very pleased with the beer. My OG was low (1.054 w/ a FG of 1.012), but it is an excellent brew.

I recommend without reservations AHS' version of the Elder!
 
I'm sure that they are both good approximations. I have made the morebeer version several times and been happy with it.
 
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