First IIPA attempt...super high FG?!

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firenemus

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Hello everyone,
I started an IIPA on 6/5/11. I let it sit in the primary for 17 days at 68*F before racking to the secondary today. When I measured the gravity I was concerned by how high it was (1.037). It tasted OK (a little on the sweet side of course), but I know it's at least 10 points from where it should be. My recipe is below, as well as the estimated and actual OG and FG.
Would someone please give me some advice? Should I try some amylase and if so how much? Should I try repitching (I've got a package of Notty in the fridge)? Should I just let it be? Help...and thanks!

Ingredients (5.1 gallon batch)

6.00 lb LME American Light
6.00 lb LME German Gold
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L
2.00 oz Magnum (WB) [10.00 %] (60 min) Hops 54.2 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (45 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (45 min) Hops 16.7 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (45 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (30 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (30 min) Hops 14.0 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (30 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (10 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (10 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 45.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Wyeast Beer Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter 1600 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.089 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021
SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.037 SG
 
Possibly a stuck fermentation. I would say that if it is super sweet, it was stuck. I would repitch with more O2 or N2 into the fermenter and get it to 72F. You could use a yeast nutrient. I had ONE beer stuck and I never could get it going again.

Another possibility is that your measurement is not correct. Maybe you have a lot of particulate in the sample? Try to get as much free-floating particulate out of the test.
 
I brewed an iipa a few days later than you and it has been stuck around 40 for a few days. I made a starter earlier today,of the same yeast I had washed from earlier batch, and just added it to my primary fermenters and shook 'em. I'm hoping it will do the trick but am not sure if the lack of oxygen will allow them to do their job, but I figure oxygenating it now might end up in a green apple. If you can wait a few days I can convey my results, hoping to see krausen in a few hours.
 
beerman1957 said:
Possibly a stuck fermentation. I would say that if it is super sweet, it was stuck. I would repitch with more O2 or N2 into the fermenter and get it to 72F. You could use a yeast nutrient. I had ONE beer stuck and I never could get it going again.

Another possibility is that your measurement is not correct. Maybe you have a lot of particulate in the sample? Try to get as much free-floating particulate out of the test.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice beerman. I'm confident that the sample I pulled was relatively clean, so I'm sure the reading is at least accurate to a few points. I'm OK with repitching, but I'm afraid of oxygenating the beer too much at this stage.
What about amylase...anyone?
 
stevebuscemi said:
I brewed an iipa a few days later than you and it has been stuck around 40 for a few days. I made a starter earlier today,of the same yeast I had washed from earlier batch, and just added it to my primary fermenters and shook 'em. I'm hoping it will do the trick but am not sure if the lack of oxygen will allow them to do their job, but I figure oxygenating it now might end up in a green apple. If you can wait a few days I can convey my results, hoping to see krausen in a few hours.
Click to expand...

Thanks steve. Curious - what yeast are you using? Thanks
 
I am using WLP023 burton ale. I pitched on a yeast cake so I was expecting a huge blowoff. While I did get a blow off it did not last longer than a day or so, which concerns me because the previous batch blew off for much longer. I'm not sure if I under-aerated it or if my attempt to lower the water temperature slightly cause the yeast to flocculate too quick, but either way hoping this new yeast will do the trick.
 
Pitching on a cake and not getting more activity is a question. I would check your gravity next time on a big beer after blow off has stopped. Then look at rousing the yeast and raising your temps.
 
That's a big beer. Since it is almost done I would raise the temprature to the low 70s and give it some more time. I would also rouse the yeast to get some back into suspention.
The yeast are drunk and lazy :drunk:
 
Getting a huge blowoff is not a requisite for a very active fermentation. It's. A good sign of one, but not getting one is just an anomaly.

My thought is you might have racked too early on a slow, steady ferment, a likely scenario with a second generation yeast, like a yeast cake.

You should think about pitching again with a high ABV tolerant strain that has little character, like a champagne yeast. As to 02, I've never done that.
 
I dont want to start any battles but you know what they say about opinions "everybody's got one". Well, mine is that I generally dont like Wyeast and 1056 just plain sucks. I can think of half a dozen yeasts I would rather use in a IIPA. But then again I also have an ahole.
 
Mikethepoolguy said:
I dont want to start any battles but you know what they say about opinions "everybody's got one". Well, mine is that I generally dont like Wyeast and 1056 just plain sucks. I can think of half a dozen yeasts I would rather use in a IIPA. But then again I also have an ahole.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for anyone else, but I appreciate your opinion mike...even though it doesn't really remedy this particular situation. ;)
As I stated in my original post, I racked yesterday into a sanitized and yeast-free secondary. Besides attempting to somehow rouse the "drunk and lazy" :cross: 1056 yeast in suspension, would it be advisable to pitch another strain of fresh yeast. A few posts back rewster542 (thanks by the way) suggested repitching with some champagne yeast due to its high alcohol tolerance. Does anyone second that? I have heard of some success with that method, but does anyone else have any other recommendations on a yeast stain? Also, I would like some opinions on using amylase. I've read a number of posts on the subject here and I think it might help, but I've never used it before and I'd appreciate an experienced brewer's opinion on how using it may affect this specific batch.
Thanks to those of you out there who've already shared your opinion. :mug:
 
If it were me and you already re-racked to a clean secondary, I would simply repitch another 1056 and just stir it in with the racking cane. I wouldn't areate it. If there are unconsumed sugars, the yeast will do its work. I did an IPA/borderline IIPA at 1.078 several weeks ago with 1056 at 70F and had no problem getting it to finish. I had it in primary for 2 weeks, racked to my keg and dry hopped another week, and then into my keezer. It was one of my best beers ever. Incredible hop flavor.
 
Mikethepoolguy said:
I dont want to start any battles but you know what they say about opinions "everybody's got one". Well, mine is that I generally dont like Wyeast and 1056 just plain sucks. I can think of half a dozen yeasts I would rather use in a IIPA. But then again I also have an ahole.
Click to expand...

I have never had a serious issue with any Wyest but I also have not tried every one. I am now using US-05 on 995 of my beers because:
1. I am lazy like that.
2. The stuff is simply awesome for flavor in most the beers I make
3. Shipping is very dicey since our outdoor temps are now well above 100F

I always rehydrate the US05 into a jar of dextrose and water just to get them active. I really love this stuff. It outperforms most of the other yeasts I have used.

Of course there are styles I would not use that strain in, mainly Belgian and Wheat beers. However, I have used US 05 on IPA, Porters, Stouts, Ambers, etc.

Pitching an additional pack and aerating the wort will usually unstick a fermentation.
 
firenemus said:
Hello everyone,
I started an IIPA on 6/5/11. I let it sit in the primary for 17 days at 68*F before racking to the secondary today. When I measured the gravity I was concerned by how high it was (1.037). It tasted OK (a little on the sweet side of course), but I know it's at least 10 points from where it should be. My recipe is below, as well as the estimated and actual OG and FG.
Would someone please give me some advice? Should I try some amylase and if so how much? Should I try repitching (I've got a package of Notty in the fridge)? Should I just let it be? Help...and thanks!

Ingredients (5.1 gallon batch)

6.00 lb LME American Light
6.00 lb LME German Gold
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 15L
2.00 oz Magnum (WB) [10.00 %] (60 min) Hops 54.2 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (45 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (45 min) Hops 16.7 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (45 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (30 min) Hops 10.4 IBU
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (30 min) Hops 14.0 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (30 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (10 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (10 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo (WB) [8.20 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Citra (WB) [13.40 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Centennial (WB) [10.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 45.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Wyeast Beer Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter 1600 ml] Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.089 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021
SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.037 SG
Click to expand...

I just brewed up a porter and it stopped at 1031 or so and just gave the carboy a really vigorous shake. It appears to have started up again or only Co2 is getting released. I will find out when I rack to my keg.

So I say shake it up like crazy, but watch out for some overflow...
 
It would help in the future to use at least a pound of simple sugar with a big extract beer. It also helps to add more oxygen after the first 12 hours of lag time or at least before you get 50% attenuation.
 
I'd rehydrate some US-05 or Nottingham in plain water then pitch prior to messing with enzymes, etc. If you had another brew going you could just wait on pitch on that yeast cake when done.

In my past experience extracts always finished a bit high, but your numbers are out of that range.

btw - your starter was way too small as per MrMalty.com
 
Bobby_M said:
It would help in the future to use at least a pound of simple sugar with a big extract beer. It also helps to add more oxygen after the first 12 hours of lag time or at least before you get 50% attenuation.
Click to expand...

+1

samc said:
I'd rehydrate some US-05 or Nottingham in plain water then pitch prior to messing with enzymes, etc. If you had another brew going you could just wait on pitch on that yeast cake when done.

In my past experience extracts always finished a bit high, but your numbers are out of that range.

btw - your starter was way too small as per MrMalty.com
Click to expand...

+1

just to clarify a few miscues:
don't waste ur time with champagne yeast, its not for stuck ferments, just ensuring carbonation since it can only metabolize simple sugars.
dont aerate your wort at this point, unless you like the taste of cardboard. you can aerate the starters tho
particulate in your sample will not affect a hydrometer reading since its only dependant on things in solution not suspension.
 
if you still have some 1056 you could make a starter and pitch when it's most active - if you have some yeast nutrient that may help as well

thats a lot of extract which can have low FAN which the yeast need to complete fermentation esp with underpitching a small starter
 
Thanks for all of the help. This is my favorite forum for homebrew on the web!
So taking all suggestions into consideration my plan is to rehydrate and pitch a package of Nottingham and bump the temp up to the mid to low 70s. I've learned several new lessons from this experience and I, being an optimist, remain hopeful that this will still be a great beer.
I'll try to remember to post the results in a few weeks... thanks again!
 
Champagne yeast always worked just fine for me in these situations, but being that we seem to all agree that you just didn't have a good amount of active yeast to begin with, I think your plan is solid.

But I do think champagne yeast is a good last ditch effort for a truly stuck fermentation. I'm only going off my own experience, which is not as expansive as some others who have replied here, and perhaps after a short research session I'll change my mind.
 
firenemus said:
Hello everyone,
I started an IIPA on 6/5/11. I let it sit in the primary for 17 days at 68*F before racking to the secondary today. When I measured the gravity I was concerned by how high it was (1.037). It tasted OK (a little on the sweet side of course), but I know it's at least 10 points from where it should be. My recipe is below, as well as the estimated and actual OG and FG.
Would someone please give me some advice? Should I try some amylase and if so how much? Should I try repitching (I've got a package of Notty in the fridge)? Should I just let it be?

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.089 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021
SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.037 SG
Click to expand...

Alcohol intolerance – Most beer yeast can easily handle 12%; some can handle up to 18%. So normally this is not the cause of stuck fermentation. You will frequently see advice to pitch champagne yeast. Champagne yeast is not a magic bullet to fix stalled fermentation. It does not do anything that normal beer yeast can't do. Champagne yeast is a valid solution if you are making a beer greater than 10%; if you are less than 10% I think we need to look at something else.

That was a quote from another page, not my words...

But I think it's probably right. All the stuck fermentations ive had were going for well over 10% ABV. And champagne yeast did the job.
 
Ok my original hopes of krausen were a bit ambitious, but I am having some results. Originally I left the carboy in a water bath but with little change after a day I removed it and left in room temperature which helped warm the yeast a little. I also rocked them fairly aggressively to spin the yeast up and remove any trapped CO2. From my reading today it appears it is into the mid 1.020's so if nothing else I'll still hopefully be able to drink it without hating it.
 
Just updating you that mine appears to have dropped into acceptable range in the teens, one carboy having a bit more yeast cake so it's a bit lower. I have transferred it to secondary with my dry hops. Let me know how yours ended up.
 

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