Stupid, Stupid, Stupid Yeast

Well, this is annoying.

Last Thursday, I got a quart of fresh WLP005 slurry from the bottom of the conical at a local brewpub. The brewmaster said it was healthy and that it was the first use from this strain.

So I took it home, put it in the fridge, and brewed on Sunday. I took the jar out of the fridge on Sunday morning and let it warm up. When the time came, I swirled the jar around and poured an entire half-quart of slurry into the wort.

Lag time was awful. 24hrs+. It finally started getting some stuff on top on monday night. By last night, it had a tiny (1/8") krausen, but you could see the swirling fermentation starting up in the wort. No bubbles yet. By the time I went to sleep last night, there was a bubble through the blowoff tube every 2 or 3 secs. This morning, it looked like it had slowed down considerably. Now, maybe a bubble every 15 seconds, if that, and the swirling of the wort had slowed down. Now, I know for a fact that it didn't get all crazy and finish up overnight. There's simply no way. So I swirled it around this morning, just to see if it would rouse some lazy yeast.

Went home at lunch...nothing. No airlock bubbles. The little bit of krausen hadn't returned since I swirled it. The swirling wort had slowed to a crawl.

So I figured that this yeast just wasn't up to the task, and pitched a packet of US56 into it.

So, what's the deal with this yeast? I was expecting a crazy fermentation, since I pitched an entire half quart of fresh slurry. But this sucked.

did you check the gravity?

I'm beginning to think yeast is more a voodoo magic than anything else. I wonder about the slurry that is at the deepest portion of a conical. Doesn't it stand to reason that these are the first buggers to blow their wad and settle out? To me they're the least viable in their current condition. That's why I believe it's so important to first pitch them into a well aerated starter. It's puts them back into aerobic mode, multiplying and saving energy stores for the task ahead. If you pitched into low or moderately oxygenated wort at high gravity, you didn't give those spent cells a chance.

The one time I've pitched a big honkin' slurry, directly from Ray McNeill himself, it also was one of my slowest ferments. It fermented out fine in the end, but it took its sweet time getting started.

Rule #1: Make a starter.

sounds to me like it is done already. It is not abnormal for me to only have a day maybe 2 of airlock activity. heck I pitched a 1.080 beer this Saturday and it was done bubbling on Monday when I got home from work. That was 2 packets of dry yeast, non hydrated.

I can see a half quart of slurry working super fast.

sirsloop said:

did you check the gravity?

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In fact, I did last night. Lo and behold, I was wrong. It was down into the mid 20's already, and even though there's no krausen and very little visible activity in the wort, there are still bubbles coming through the blowoff tube every 5-10 secs. So there you go.

Bobby_M said:

I'm beginning to think yeast is more a voodoo magic than anything else. I wonder about the slurry that is at the deepest portion of a conical. Doesn't it stand to reason that these are the first buggers to blow their wad and settle out? To me they're the least viable in their current condition. That's why I believe it's so important to first pitch them into a well aerated starter. It's puts them back into aerobic mode, multiplying and saving energy stores for the task ahead. If you pitched into low or moderately oxygenated wort at high gravity, you didn't give those spent cells a chance.

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Well, it's not the very bottom. He drains some first before taking the sample for me. But either way, this is the same conclusion that my friend and I came up with. The wort was very oxygenated---via the straining process, and by an hour of mechanical aeration. But it just was not enough. Voodoo indeed. This strain is weird.

homebrewer_99 said:

Rule #1: Make a starter.

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I don't wanna hear it, HB. I came here last week and posed the question to my fellow HBT'ers. What were the responses? "yea it should be fine". How about "I suspect a cup of slurry will be plenty." Or maybe "I'd say jst pitching the existing slurry would be great." The consensus among all of us was, no starter needed. I'm not blaming, just saying, don't give me crap for not making a starter for a whole quart of fresh slurry ...but I won't make the mistake again, that's for damned sure.

Todd said:

sounds to me like it is done already. It is not abnormal for me to only have a day maybe 2 of airlock activity. heck I pitched a 1.080 beer this Saturday and it was done bubbling on Monday when I got home from work. That was 2 packets of dry yeast, non hydrated.

I can see a half quart of slurry working super fast.

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Yeah, well, it's not done yet, but it's obviously been doing something. I'll check the gravity again tomorrow. I hope it doesn't finish too high, that's all.

Let's consider flocculated yeast like a guy a few years out of the military. He got in shape, kicked some ass, but kinda let himself go for a couple years. Expose him to some basic training again (starter) and he'll be ready to go in no time at all. Damn, what a gay analogy.

Evan! said:

I don't wanna hear it, HB. I came here last week and posed the question to my fellow HBT'ers. What were the responses? "yea it should be fine". How about "I suspect a cup of slurry will be plenty." Or maybe "I'd say jst pitching the existing slurry would be great." The consensus among all of us was, no starter needed. I'm not blaming, just saying, don't give me crap for not making a starter for a whole quart of fresh slurry ...but I won't make the mistake again, that's for damned sure.

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I noticed you didn't do the one thing I suggested doing though.....

Dude said:

I noticed you didn't do the one thing I suggested doing though.....

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What would the pitching cold have done?

the_bird said:

What would the pitching cold have done?

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Cold pitching helps in speeding up fermentation, therefore reducing the lag phase.

Glibbidy said:

Cold pitching helps in speeding up fermentation, therefore reducing the lag phase.

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Really? That I did not know.

So let me ask; I'm planning on making a starter tonight for a brew on Sunday (I've only done a starter once before, I usually use dry yeast). I want to give it time to ferment out, then chill it, get the yeast to drop, and decant off the nasty beer. Should I just pull the starter from the fridge immediately before pitching, decant the liquid, and toss the slurry in cold?

The short answer is yes. Personally I usually just swirl everything around to loosen the slurry from the bottom of the vessel, and toss the whole enchilada in the wort.

The yeast will warm up quickly to the wort temperature, and they will start taking in nutrients and oxygen from your cooled wort. This process uses energy therefore creating heat in turn which which brings the yeast up to fermentation temp.
The yeast will gladly go from their rest phase at 34F to their active growth phase at fermentation temp minus 3-5F. This end result typically is a shorter lag phase, and more vigorous fermentation. :rockin:

homebrewer_99 said:

Rule #1: Make a starter.

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Jawohl! The only times I've had problem with harvested yeast is when I don't make one...

FWIW-My last 2 batches I used yeast from the tank of the local microbrewery. The 1st one-I pitched just hours after he drew it from the tank. About an hour after pitching, anbout 2 inches of yeast had assembled at the bottom of the carboy-after 7 hours-there was about 4 inches of krausen, a constant stream of bubbles out of the blowoff tube, it was 7 degrees warmer than the table it was sitting on-and churning like crazy.

On the last batch, I got the same yeast (strand anyways, not sure if the same generation) and didn't pitch until the following day. It was a much more 'chilled out' fermentaion-didn't collect as much on the bottom, only about an inch of krausen, slower bubbles, etc...but they still seemed to do the trick-and was pretty much complete after just a few days.

It seems like the main variable was the amount of time between being in the tank to being pitched. If that follows, then getting it on Thurs, and not pitching till Sunday would result in less visible signs-yet it sounds like it still did the trick.

Yeah, I didn't do that, but in my experience, pitching cold slurry hasn't helped.

Evan! said:

Yeah, I didn't do that, but in my experience, pitching cold slurry hasn't helped.

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No offense, but I'll be you didn't do it right...What was your wort temp when you pitched cold?

Some good resources on cold pitching are:

COLD PITCHING FAQ (pay close attention to the recommended temperatures)

Additional info:

TBN episode 07-09-2006 Wyeast Dave Logsdon (Link will open the .mp3 file)(Cold pitching info starts around 1:26, goes about 10-15 minutes)

I cold pitch pretty much every time I use a slurry. I have active fermentation within 2 hours of pitching every time, and it is always a very quick and active fermentation.

Dude said:

No offense, but I'll be you didn't do it right...What was your wort temp when you pitched cold?

Some good resources on cold pitching are:

COLD PITCHING FAQ (pay close attention to the recommended temperatures)

Additional info:

TBN episode 07-09-2006 Wyeast Dave Logsdon (Link will open the .mp3 file)(Cold pitching info starts around 1:26, goes about 10-15 minutes)

I cold pitch pretty much every time I use a slurry. I have active fermentation within 2 hours of pitching every time, and it is always a very quick and active fermentation.

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No offense taken. It's been awhile, but the last time I pitched cold slurry, I was just around my target temp---maybe a little colder because it was cold outside. It did just about the same thing as this time. But I'll read the FAQ more carefully and try it to the letter next time I get some slurry. Thanks Dude.