increasing efficiency

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lestershy

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Hello all, I recently moved to all grain and have done 4 batches. I've been getting really bad efficiency like 50-55%. Here is my process, any help would be greatly appreciated.
I use a rectangular 52qt converted cooler with a CPVC manifold as my MLT.
I preheat it with 150F water for about 10 min, drain and dump my grain bill in. I mash pretty thin (1.5qts/lb) give it a good stir, take my temp (usually shoot for 155F) and close the lid. I stir at the half way mark (30min), take temps again and close the lid. I'm not losing a ton of heat, but I'd say that I lose 2-3 degrees after 30min. After an hour I vorlauf, carefully dump the wort back in the mash tun, and slowly take my first runnings (about 1qt per minute). I batch sparge after that, basically the same process, but shorter and less water involved.
Any thoughts why my efficiency is so bad?
 
Take a gravity reading from the end of your mash next time you brew. This will help us determine whether your problem is lack of conversion or poor lautering. If you're getting 95%+ conversion efficiency we can focus on lautering where as if conversion efficiency is only 70%, we know what to focus on.
 
Cool thanks for the speedy responses.

nebben, I crush at the LHBS. They had a barley crusher (which is now dead) and the grains looked good, cracked but not pulverized. They are getting a new one, so maybe it will help.

ChemE, I will do that next wednesday and post the results.
 
This is a pic of my MLT. I took plans for a much larger one and scaled it down. Could my manifold be the problem?

image-4006631548.jpg
 
Lester,

To me that is not very efficient. Wort has to travel laterally very far to reach the manifold. This greatly increases the likelihood of channeling. In theory this should not matter since you're batch sparging but that theory only holds if your mash is completely homogeneous when you start running off after a sparge. Of course this will never truly be the case. Take the gravity of the mash at the end of your sach rest and also get the gravity of the last runnings. This will tell us how much sugar and efficiency are left in the grain bed after lautering. Chances are it isn't there though, but its easy to check. Almost certainly your problem is conversion efficiency if you're stirring the batch sparges like a madman.

My idea of an efficient manifold can you found in my link in my signature. I routinely exceed 90% efficiency so I know lautering is good in my system. Careful design of my sparge water ensures no tannin extraction which frankly is a myth anyway.
 
Cool thanks for the speedy responses.

nebben, I crush at the LHBS. They had a barley crusher (which is now dead) and the grains looked good, cracked but not pulverized. They are getting a new one, so maybe it will help.

ChemE, I will do that next wednesday and post the results.

my efficiency went up a few points when I bought my own mill. The stores mill was probably set a little wide... They would rather sell people a pound more grain due to low efficiency, than have people calling them all day long because they have a stuck mash! ;)

I use a barley crusher, a 48qt cooler, and a stainless braid, and usually get between 72%-78% efficiency.
 
When you add the sparge water, do you stir it in really well? When batch sparging, it is the stirring that causes the sugars to dissolve.

-a.
 
When you add the sparge water, do you stir it in really well? When batch sparging, it is the stirring that causes the sugars to dissolve.

-a.

+1 to this. IMO crush and proper stirring (both at dough in and before each sparge) are the two biggest contributors to efficiency for batch spargers. Also, it sounds from your post like you might be adding the water to the grain. Usually it's done the other way around to help prevent dough balls, which could also hurt your efficiency.
 
Your manifold looks fine for batch sparging. Obtaining a good crush is where I'd look...that and making sure temps are spot on.
 
ajf, I stir at dough in, half way through the mash, and after adding the sparge water.

JuanMoore, I do add the grain first, but I stir it up really well. Would that really make a difference?

norsk, hopefully the new mill at the LHBS will arrive soon and I can get the crush right. I do find that it's hard to keep the temp consistent throughout the cooler, the corners are always 5-10 degrees cooler than the middle. So I shoot for closer to 160F in the middle and get about 150F in the corners.
 
Adding water hotter than 140F to crushed grains is generally not recommended since the grains gelatinize above this temperature forming large and persistent dough balls which are quite difficult to completely break up. It is preferred to either dough in below 140F (which most people don't do since single infusion mashes are so popular) or add the grains to the hot water.
 
Wow, I will try putting the water in first then.
I'll update after I brew again.
Thanks for all the info.
 
So, I finally had time to brew again yesterday and I did get a nice bump in efficiency. I went from 55% to 65% by just adding half of the water first, the half of the grain while stirring, the rest of the water and then the final bits of grain while stirring.
My LHBS has a really crappy mill that pulverized my grain, but they are getting a new one (i am told). Would having too fine a crush negatively impact my efficiency?
 
Congrats on the efficiency improvement.
Having too fine a crush should not negatively impact your efficiency, but it certainly could cause a stuck sparge which is no fun at all.
If you brew enough, getting your own grain mill and buying your grain in bulk can be a real time and money saver. Since I got mine, I only need to visit the LHBS about once every 6 months instead of once every other week, saving me about 50 hours per year, and I recovered the cost of the mill in reduced grain and traveling costs on the day I bought it together with 50Kg of Maris Otter, and smaller amounts of various specialty malts.

-a.
 
When I started AG I had bad efficiencies. Someone said "stir like it is your job" after adding the sparge water. This made huge improvements. Easy part to under-do or not do at all for a beginner.
 

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