Any ideas on increasing efficiency?

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jgourd

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I brewed a nice IPA yesterday (with a brewhouse efficiency of 68%, I estimated the OG to be 1.068):

Pale Malt (2-Row): 13.5#
Carapils: 1#
Crystal 40L: 1#

Batch size: 5.5 gallons.

I mashed with 4.84 gallons (heated to 170F) at 153F for 60 minutes. After the mash, my temp. was 152F. 1 degree loss is not too shabby.
I then mashed-out with 2.14 gallons (heated to 210F) to make up for grain absorption which increased the temp to 165F. Mixed for a minute or two, let settle for 10 minutes, vorlaufed, and collected 5.1 gallons at 1.071 SG.
I sparged with 4.8 gallons (heated to 181F) which increased the temp to 168F. Mixed for a minute or two, let settle for 10 minutes, vorlaufed, and collected 4.45 gallons at 1.039 SG.
Total to kettle was 9.55 gallons at 1.051 SG (after mixing the collections).
After boiling, I collected 5.75 gallons to fermenter at 1.060 SG. There was about 0.9 gallons left that I could have collected if I had the room.
I calculated my efficiency to be 60% (based on the 5.5 gallon batch size). If I base it on my actual collected volume (5.75 gallons), it's 63%. And if I add in the extra 0.9 gallons in the kettle that I could have collected, it's 70%. But maybe I shouldn't care about the extra left in the kettle.
So my questions are:
(1) Are my calculations correct?
(2) What could I do to increase my efficiency?
 
your eff is based on pre-boil volume and how did you boil off nearly 4g. Did you do an iodine test to see if you converted all starch and what is your pre-boil gravity. Your eff is based on the amount of grain, the yield for each grain, your pre-boil volume and pre-boil gravity
 
Wait, did you really boil down from 9.55 gallons to 6.75? How long did that take?

I just think you sparged a little too much and left a gallon of wort in the kettle which kills brewhouse efficiency.

Batch size 5.5, figure about 1.5 gallons of boil off in an hour. Total preboil should be 7 gallons.

15.5 pounds of malt x 1.25 qts/lb is 19.375qt or just call it 5 gallons. The grain will hold on to about 1.9 gallons... call it 2. Your first runnings would be 3 gallons. You would then need to sparge with 4 gallons to get your 7 gallons of preboil volume.
 
I brewed a nice IPA yesterday (with a brewhouse efficiency of 68%, I estimated the OG to be 1.068):

Pale Malt (2-Row): 13.5#
Carapils: 1#
Crystal 40L: 1#

Batch size: 5.5 gallons.

I mashed with 4.84 gallons (heated to 170F) at 153F for 60 minutes. After the mash, my temp. was 152F. 1 degree loss is not too shabby.
I then mashed-out with 2.14 gallons (heated to 210F) to make up for grain absorption which increased the temp to 165F. Mixed for a minute or two, let settle for 10 minutes, vorlaufed, and collected 5.1 gallons at 1.071 SG.
I sparged with 4.8 gallons (heated to 181F) which increased the temp to 168F. Mixed for a minute or two, let settle for 10 minutes, vorlaufed, and collected 4.45 gallons at 1.039 SG.
Total to kettle was 9.55 gallons at 1.051 SG (after mixing the collections).
After boiling, I collected 5.75 gallons to fermenter at 1.060 SG. There was about 0.9 gallons left that I could have collected if I had the room.
I calculated my efficiency to be 60% (based on the 5.5 gallon batch size). If I base it on my actual collected volume (5.75 gallons), it's 63%. And if I add in the extra 0.9 gallons in the kettle that I could have collected, it's 70%. But maybe I shouldn't care about the extra left in the kettle.
So my questions are:
(1) Are my calculations correct?
(2) What could I do to increase my efficiency?

You got 70% efficiency. That liquid left in the kettle counts! Think about it...if you had boiled longer, you would have been left with less in the kettle after transferring to the fermenter.....less water=more concentrated=higher OG. So, if you are looking at "post boil efficiency", you need to account for ALL the liquid.

Which is why many go by "preboil" efficiency more...you are usually measuring how much wort you have preboil, so the calculations are easier.
 
For those who are wondering how I boiled off so much, I didn't. It was a 90 minute boil, and I actually only lost 1.7 gallons due to evaporation (13% rate). Between the bottom of the keggle and the counterflow chiller, I have 1.1 gallons lost. So 0.9 extra wort + 1.1 lost + 5.75 collected + 1.7 evaporated = 9.42 which was basically my preboil volume. SG of preboil volume was 1.051. How would I perform the calculation to get preboil efficiency?

And another question. What's the calculation then for determining how much grain I'd need to hit a preboil efficiency with a brewhouse efficiency of 68%? And also supposing my batch size were 5.5 gallons?

Thanks.
 
This should get you started but there are charts out there for the yield in PPG point per pound grain per gallon
2-row is about 35 PPG x 13.5 = 472.5
pre-boil volume 9.42
pre-boil gravity 1.050 or 50 points
50 points X 9.42 = 471
471/472.5 = 99% eff

I also did your pre-boil gravity and what it should be post boil according to pre and post volume and I got 1.081 OG post boil. So you might wanna check your numbers
 
And another question. What's the calculation then for determining how much grain I'd need to hit a preboil efficiency with a brewhouse efficiency of 68%? And also supposing my batch size were 5.5 gallons?

Thanks.

what is the OG post boil? If its 1.040 then 40 x 5.5 = 220 points you need. 2-row PPG is 35 x .68(eff) = 23.8. 220/23.8 = 9.24 lbs of 2-row for 68% eff.
 
This should get you started but there are charts out there for the yield in PPG point per pound grain per gallon
2-row is about 35 PPG x 13.5 = 472.5
pre-boil volume 9.42
pre-boil gravity 1.050 or 50 points
50 points X 9.42 = 471
471/472.5 = 99% eff

I also did your pre-boil gravity and what it should be post boil according to pre and post volume and I got 1.081 OG post boil. So your numbers are wrong

OK. Let me see if I have this right. First the grain points I used:

2-row PPG is 36 and I have 13.5#
Carapils is 33 and I have 1#
Crystal 40 is 34 and I have 1#

So 13.5 * 36 + 33 + 34 = 553

And now here's how I calculate my preboil efficiency (with preboil SG=1.051 and preboil volume=9.42):

51 * 9.42 / 553 = 87%

And now efficiency based on what I collected to the fermenter (plus extra 0.9 left in kettle above normal trub loss):

60 * 6.65 / 553 = 72%

And now efficiency just based on what my batch volume was set to (5.5):

60 * 5.5 / 553 = 60%

So as I figure it, brewhouse efficiency is just a way to work backwards. To help you figure out how much grain you need to hit a certain SG considering your brewhouse efficiency. Or the other way around: given some amount of grain, the potential you will get out of it per your equipment based on the brewhouse efficiency. Am I getting this right?
 
OK. Let me see if I have this right. First the grain points I used:

2-row PPG is 36 and I have 13.5#
Carapils is 33 and I have 1#
Crystal 40 is 34 and I have 1#

So 13.5 * 36 + 33 + 34 = 553

And now here's how I calculate my preboil efficiency (with preboil SG=1.051 and preboil volume=9.42):

51 * 9.42 / 553 = 87%

And now efficiency based on what I collected to the fermenter (plus extra 0.9 left in kettle above normal trub loss):

60 * 6.65 / 553 = 72%

And now efficiency just based on what my batch volume was set to (5.5):

60 * 5.5 / 553 = 60%

So as I figure it, brewhouse efficiency is just a way to work backwards. To help you figure out how much grain you need to hit a certain SG considering your brewhouse efficiency. Or the other way around: given some amount of grain, the potential you will get out of it per your equipment based on the brewhouse efficiency. Am I getting this right?

looks good except with that much boil off your OG should be higher like 1.081
 
ok nm, since the rest of the 9.55g was just lost not boiled off that works out.
1.051 * 9.55/7.85 = 1.062
 
It appears that you have an inherently inefficient setup. I'm not talking about its ability to extract sugar, I'm talking about pure volume losses. If you're having to collect 9+ gallons of wort just to get 5 into the fermenter, your system needs an overhaul.
 
It appears that you have an inherently inefficient setup. I'm not talking about its ability to extract sugar, I'm talking about pure volume losses. If you're having to collect 9+ gallons of wort just to get 5 into the fermenter, your system needs an overhaul.

your post-boil volume is 7.72 so when I put that in my spreadsheet it gives me an OG 1.061 so my mistake. As Yuri said try to fix all your loss post-boil around 2 gallons, your eff is 86%
 
After boiling, I collected 5.75 gallons to fermenter at 1.060 SG. There was about 0.9 gallons left that I could have collected if I had the room.
I calculated my efficiency to be 60% (based on the 5.5 gallon batch size). If I base it on my actual collected volume (5.75 gallons), it's 63%. And if I add in the extra 0.9 gallons in the kettle that I could have collected, it's 70%. But maybe I shouldn't care about the extra left in the kettle.
So my questions are:
(1) Are my calculations correct?
(2) What could I do to increase my efficiency?
Your calculations look pretty accurate to me.


  1. Based on 5.5g, I calculate 60%
    Based on 5.75g, I calculate 62%
    Based on 6.65g, I calculate 72%
  2. I think you have answered your own question
    As Yuri said, eliminate the losses when transferring to the fermenter, and you would increase your efficiency by about 10%
    I would lose a similar amount of wort when transferring to the fermenter if I left the kettle level, but I tilt it in the direction of the spigot, which cuts my losses down to a few ounces
-a.
 
So at the moment, I lose 1.1 gallons. Comparing to your systems, is that a lot? I have a 50' counterflow chiller (3/8" copper tubing) that traps about 0.2 gallons. My keggle traps 0.9 gallons. I think that's where the major problem is. Have any of you rigged your keggle to generate less loss? I basically have this rig that goes from my valve to this mesh screen.

Thanks!
 
So at the moment, I lose 1.1 gallons. Comparing to your systems, is that a lot? I have a 50' counterflow chiller (3/8" copper tubing) that traps about 0.2 gallons. My keggle traps 0.9 gallons. I think that's where the major problem is. Have any of you rigged your keggle to generate less loss? I basically have this rig that goes from my valve to this mesh screen.

Thanks!

I use an angled dip tube, for side pick up with no screen in my keggle and dead loss is 375 ml.
 
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