beginners kit dissapointment

Hello all,

I have just started with home-brewing and I have started from the very beginning, using kits.

So far I tried two kits, Coopers Autralian Pale Ale and Coopers Wheat Beer. In both I used the yeast from the kit and in both cases I found the beer too light in flavour....so far I think it would have been better to buy comercial beer . I have respected the dates for fermenting (3 weeks in primary+at least 2 weeks of carbonation.....PAle Ale have been 2 months at least) and everything related to temperatures.

It is nice the process of doing it and more exciting and cheaper but after testing the carbonated wheat yesterday I feel again a bit dissapointed, wonderting how I am gonna drink 20 litters of a beer that I dont really like.
I will try to leave it longer in the bottle and see if it gets better.

So now I have in the fermentor a brewferm triple which I hope will bring me a step forward, as I see that brewferm has always good reviews.

Is this caused by the quality of kits? Maybe myself not being patience enough? Any suggestion on kits for beginners?


Thanks
Miguel

What fermentables did you use when making these kits, Miguel?

Hi, with the Pale Ale I used the Coopers Enhancer and with the Wheat I used 1.5 LME (wheat) + 0.5 DME.

Sounds like you need more malt extract, some hops, and a quality yeast.

I think your idea to try a different kit maker is a good one. Best wishes!

If you used an all extract kit try moving up to a kit that has a partial grain mash

Another way to go is to look on this forum for a good extract recipe for your favorite style of beer and buy the ingredients for it. If you have a favorite beer, you might even be able to find the recipe to clone that beer.

I made several Cooper's kits in the beginning, and I almost quit brewing because the beer resulting from those kits was sub-par.

I'd suggest trying a different supplier. I'm don't know what you have available in Norway, but I'd suggest something like this: http://www.austinhomebrew.com/produ...=1125&osCsid=2e66ac71b4b8015c68afe75a8e4df919

The ingredients are listed on their site: 7 lb Liquid Malt Extract, 10 oz Specialty Grains, hops, and quality yeast. That would make great beer, unlike a Cooper's can with "booster" or "enhancer". Maybe some others who live in your area can tell you what supplier they use, and give you some tips.

Check out morebeer and northern brewers extract kits..there pretty cheap and the quality is great...I use them as a on hand beer when all my other stuff is tied up for comp beers

1.5 LME (wheat) + 0.5 DME + 20 litres water = OG 1.017. This is more like beer flavored water. You need lots more extract.

If your brews are tasting a bit watery, reduce you water volume when you put it into the primary. Nothing says you have to make a perfect 20 L batch, you could do the same batch as a 15 L and have a more flavorfull result. Too much water in always means too much water out. Just use common sense when you cut the water and dont go too far and brew a sludge.
HTH,
Wheelchair Bob

Bithead said:

1.5 LME (wheat) + 0.5 DME + 20 litres water = OG 1.017. This is more like beer flavored water. You need lots more extract.

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That is besides the malt coming with the kit. Coopers recomments 500g Light Dry Malt + 300g Dextrose, so I used 1.5LME wheat instead of the 300gr dextrose.....

Thanks for all your comments!

Bithead said:

1.5 LME (wheat) + 0.5 DME + 20 litres water = OG 1.017. This is more like beer flavored water. You need lots more extract.

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Like another 1lb of dme and lme..and some Steeping grains

coopers sucks. I only did one, and that was because it came with my beginners equipment set.

+1 to using partial mash kits. I've found Brewer's Best kits produce a great beer every time. Even when I've made mistakes such as bad boilover, overlooking an ingredient, and not being able to control temperature that well.

elmiguel said:

Is this caused by the quality of kits? Maybe myself not being patience enough? Any suggestion on kits for beginners?

Thanks
Miguel

Click to expand...

Did you follow the directions exactly? I was given two Coopers kits recently and I was going to re-gift them, but after reading the instructions, I've just got to try it following their instructions. Way back when I started brewing about half the LME cans available came pre-bittered with hops. I never tried them, as I wanted more control. I assumed these Coopers cans were the same. Upon reading the instructions, I think these are more than just bittered. I think they might have some hop flavor and aroma extracts added as well.

According to their instructions, these are NO BOIL kits. You simply mix with 2L of boiling water, or 4L of hot tap water to dissolve the ME, then mix in the separate booster (typically DME and sugar) and top off with cold water. Pitch yeast when cool enough.

So, since these are no boil, then this has me thinking that these are not just pre-bittered, but also have some hop products added for flavor and aroma. I may be wrong. That's why I want to try them, and why I asked if you did the typical 60 min boil that most kits call for. If my suspicions are correct, then If one does do a 60 min. boil, then you are boiling off the aroma and flavor (extracts?) that they added - resulting in a bland beer.

As others have said, those Cooper's kits are sub par, at best. And the yeast that comes with them (Cooper's ale) is downright foul, IMO. What kind of home brew supply stores do you have in Norway? Do they sell 'extract with steeping grains' kits? Or can you order from elsewhere in Europe or even from here in the US? I'd highly recommend something like Yooper linked in her post, a good kit from a reputable store or supplier. Kits like that, when treated properly and fermented with a quality yeast like Fermentis or Wyeast, will make very good beer. Another option would be to check out the recipe forums here on HBT (or find a recipe in a book like Brewing Classic Styles) and buy all your ingredients separately. It may cost a tad more, but it'll make much tastier beer than a Cooper's "kit & can" will.

I agree with with what Glynn said about doing a partial mash. Not sure if you have a brew supply store near you, but if the kits come with grains, they are the first thing to spoil; grains will go rancid relatively quickly after they are crushed. I don't have much kit experience, but I've had success replacing the stale old crushed grains that came with the kit (simply smell the grains to see if they are ok!) with new grains from the brewstore (or internet?)

On another note, I know what you mean about having a batch of beer that doesn't taste great. Made a porter that tastes like rubber to me, but everyone else seems to like it.

Good news: the flavor generally improves with time. But if not, find a neighbor who drinks anything- that's what I do when I have a beer I don't enjoy. Home brew makes a pretty good gift and is easier to give when it doesn't taste all that great.

I wouldn't even say you need to do partial mash. I bought my first kit from Midwest Supplies and it was an extract IIPA and it turned out excellent. I've also done 2 other extract kits I ordered from Adventures in Homebrewing and they also were excellent.

Personally, I think if you are ordering kits that send you fresh ingredients (grains and DME or LME) as well as quality yeast, you will get good beer as a result.

I've only done a Coopers KIT once.. and it will likely be the last because I've found better kits and making my own kits. I think Coopers "dumbs down" their kits, which are pricey enough IMO, and don't put anywhere's enough fermentables in in the kit in order to keep the price down.

Living in Norge, I have no idea what you have there.. or how easy it is to get kits. However, I have seen here on HBT a number of brewers that use the Coopers LME's as a base for recipes. I'd guess the LME is good.

Try to do a search here using "Coopers" and I think you will find a few people who have modified the kit.. or simply used the LME as a building block for a recipe. Coops has hopped LME and plain LME. If you use the hopped and no additional hops later in the process.. you will have bittering and little aroma and flavor. You'll also have to add more LME or DME.

There are a ton of extract recipes that will use a couple of cans of LME as the base followed by hop additions.

So, if Coopers extracts are easily available.. use them.. but find a recipe that uses just the LME and then get the rest of the ingredients..

OR, just take the advice of prior suggestions.. MoreBeer, Austin Homebrew Supply, Northern Brewer, etc all have great kits. Shipping is an added expense.. but, you will have a good beer in the end.

The Coopers kits are notorious for being thin on the extract. In general they use half their fermentables from extract and half from sugar. I have had good luck with Brewers Best ingredient kits. . They have all extract and extract with steeping grains. You can also pull an extract recipie from the recipie forum and put the ingredients together yourself In general you're looking for about 2 cans 3.3 LBS each of extract. Try to steer clear of ingredients kits that contains 3 lbs sugar (or booster)

I've used coopers kits and there ok but I find adding a few other things like dry hopping or doing a partial improves them.

william_shakes_beer said:

The Coopers kits are notorious for being thin on the extract. In general they use half their fermentables from extract and half from sugar. I have had good luck with Brewers Best ingredient kits. . They have all extract and extract with steeping grains. You can also pull an extract recipie from the recipie forum and put the ingredients together yourself In general you're looking for about 2 cans 3.3 LBS each of extract. Try to steer clear of ingredients kits that contains 3 lbs sugar (or booster)

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Where did you get that info about the cans being half sugar??? I've been on their forums & questioned the head brew tech in e-mails. Never heard that one. Not even from his friends down there.
And the cooper's cans are designed for 23L,or 6.072 US gallons. So at 20L,he already had them concentrated a bit. And I got it from the source that the Cooper's OS cans are bittered only. What else might be added,he wouldn't say. No maltster in his right mind would from a business standpoint.
You could check out my recipes,since they use Cooper's as a base with other things added. The Cooper's cans,brewed as recommended,can taste a little light & bland compared to commercial brews a noob brewer would be used to. Do you drink commercial ales,or lagers? Pale or dark? The Cooper's OS kits as is will not be at all compareable to BMC light lagers & such.
Add 3lbs of plain light DME & two ounces of hops,& that can will taste a lot better at 23L. A bit better yet at 20L.

elmiguel said:

wonderting how I am gonna drink 20 litters of a beer that I dont really like.

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I have 5 gallons (left over from a 10 gallon batch) of a Hefe that I am in no way excited to drink. It has just been occupying a fermentor for 3 months now. Incidentally I will be kegging it tonight but that is only because I need the fermentor.

Bithead said:

1.5 LME (wheat) + 0.5 DME + 20 litres water = OG 1.017. This is more like beer flavored water. You need lots more extract.

Click to expand...

I believe with those kits this would be in addition to a can of hopped liquid malt extract.

Oops missed pages 2 and 3 of responses!

just tasted my second brew of Wheat and its pretty good...i used the Tru brew kits and made the Brown ale as my first and its all gone now ) i just brewed the Nut Brown ale today and i cant wait for that one....Tru Brew is working for me

Brewers Best, and True Brew do good kits in my experience.

my first kit was a brewers best Munich helles and boy was I impressed. The guy at the homebrew store thought I was biting off more than I could chew by starting off with a lager. but it turned out great.

I too, have liked the few BB kit's I've done. Their Robust Porter is especially tasty.

I frequently use Coopers and Muntons cans as a base for brews. By adding hops, specialty grains, and using different yeasts; one can create excellent beers with these kits. My friends and house guests never have problems helping me drink my beer. It is also better to use malt extract as opposed to dextrose.