Boiling steeping grains?

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MattHollingsworth

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Hey guys.

I haven't brewed extract in about 15 years. Recently, here where I live, I saw a brewer making an extract batch and he was boiling his steeping grains. And another friend in the States just started and did his first batch. He bought some simplified book about brewing in apartments, I don't know which one. And he boiled his steeping grains for 30 minutes.

From what I remember, steeping grains are best kept under 170 or so, so as to not extract too many tannins.

Has this standard, basic extract brewing knowledge changed in the last 15 years? Or is it the same as it was: avoid boiling steeping grains.

I want to point my friend in the correct direction, but my extract brewing knowledge is totally out of date, so figured I'd check in with you guys.

Any insight is appreciated.
 
I'm fairly new to HB, but everything I've read says NOT to boil the steeping grains for the reasons you stated.
 
X2. I'm under the impression that steeping grains are no different than AG brewing. You want to keep them around 150 for the starch/sugar conversion then raise them to 170 to finish off the cycle and remove them from the kettle.
 
With steeping grains, you're not getting conversion. I'm not talking about any kind of mini mash or anything, just steeping.

Thanks guys.

Anybody say otherwise, with regards to boiling and not boiling?
 
You remember correctly, and your beer will probably turn out better than theirs. Just be sure to gloat.

I'm not brewing extract, it's their first batch ever and I've been brewing for 15 years. I'm trying to help them with advice. Not a chance in hell I'll gloat or make fun of their beer even if they weren't 6000 miles away from me. The point is to help them make better beer so that they stick with the hobby. What would be the point of gloating?
 
John Palmer’s “How to Brew” is a respected source of home brewing information. His first edition (free, on-line) says “Steeping specialty grain is like making tea. The crushed grain is soaked in hot 150 - 170°F degree water for 30 minutes. Even though a color change will be noticeable early on, steep for the entire 30 minutes to get as much of the available sugar dissolved into the wort as possible. The grain is removed from the water and that water (now a wort) is then used to dissolve the extract for the boil.”
Link: http://www.howtobrew.com/
 
Hey guys.

I haven't brewed extract in about 15 years. Recently, here where I live, I saw a brewer making an extract batch and he was boiling his steeping grains. And another friend in the States just started and did his first batch. He bought some simplified book about brewing in apartments, I don't know which one. And he boiled his steeping grains for 30 minutes.

From what I remember, steeping grains are best kept under 170 or so, so as to not extract too many tannins.

Has this standard, basic extract brewing knowledge changed in the last 15 years? Or is it the same as it was: avoid boiling steeping grains.

I want to point my friend in the correct direction, but my extract brewing knowledge is totally out of date, so figured I'd check in with you guys.

Any insight is appreciated.

A lot of old extract recipes hid the fact that they were trying for a short pseudo cereal mash buy just calling for boiling the grains or leaving them in until boiling, especially oatmeal.

but its best to just steep steeping grains <170.
 
I'm not brewing extract, it's their first batch ever and I've been brewing for 15 years. I'm trying to help them with advice. Not a chance in hell I'll gloat or make fun of their beer even if they weren't 6000 miles away from me. The point is to help them make better beer so that they stick with the hobby. What would be the point of gloating?

Calm down, not everything is so serious. I can't honestly claim that what I said was funny, but that was how it was intended :drunk:
 
Calm down, not everything is so serious. I can't honestly claim that what I said was funny, but that was how it was intended :drunk:

Not angry, just didn't think that was funny.

Anyway, thanks guys. After all this, the beginner replied that "oops, I meant I boiled the wort after I took the steeping grains out." Hahaha!

Well, anyway, I'm just trying to steer him right. Now convincing him to skip secondary. The info he has says to rack to secondary after 5 or 6 days. I told him to ignore that and skip secondary. A waste of time and effort unless you intend to age the beer, IMHO.
 
You all true. Bring the water to a boil then turn it off and wait 5min. you then add the grains and steep for 30min with the lid on. The temp will drop on its own and you will be fine.
 
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Boiling grains (actually anything over 170 or so) will release tannins (poly phenols) which add off flavors and unwanted bitterness.
 
I've read two versions on steeping grains and as far as I can determine they are the only two correct procedures.

1. Add the grain bag to cool water. Bring the temp to 155F, kill the flame and steep 30 minutes.

2. Bring water up to 150 add the grain bag and maintain 150 for 30 minutes.

I've done both and they seem to work equally well.

I think the first is easier and waste less energy.

I suggest you encourage your friends to join HBT. Face it, there is more information available here than any single person can provide which is one of the reasons this site is so great!
 
MattHollingsworth said:
With steeping grains, you're not getting conversion. I'm not talking about any kind of mini mash or anything, just steeping.

Thanks guys.

Well then I'm lost. The whole purpose of soaking/steeping/mashing the grains at ~150 is for the enzyme conversion. Everyone that has responded has said e same thing. ~150 degrees for 30 minutes raise temp to 170, remove. How is that different than mashing? Only difference is that you're not doing the whole grain bill in a mash tun.
 
I have read that some grains will contribute more sugars to the wort than others so some are just for flavor and others are more for the sugars.

I used to add the grains when the water was getting hot and then leave the heat on. I was aiming for 20 minutes and no more than 170°. I usually had the two come together withing a few minutes.

This saved the time of getting the water to steeping temperature first and then the trouble of adjusting the temperature.

The beers turned out great.
 
Well then I'm lost. The whole purpose of soaking/steeping/mashing the grains at ~150 is for the enzyme conversion. Everyone that has responded has said e same thing. ~150 degrees for 30 minutes raise temp to 170, remove. How is that different than mashing? Only difference is that you're not doing the whole grain bill in a mash tun.

most steeping grains don't have enough, or any enzymes to convert themselves.
steeping is for flavor and to extract non-fermentable sugars that were converted in the malting.

There is a large difference in steeping and mashing.
 
This is good stuff: 150-170 (no higher!) for 30 minutes.

What about clearing/rinsing out the small stuff from the grains first like they show in the NB DVD video.

And does moving the pouch/bag up and down in the hot water help, hinder, good, bad or ugly?

Thanks!
 
This is good stuff: 150-170 (no higher!) for 30 minutes.

What about clearing/rinsing out the small stuff from the grains first like they show in the NB DVD video.

And does moving the pouch/bag up and down in the hot water help, hinder, good, bad or ugly?

Thanks!

Tapping out the fine dust before hand probably doesn't do much of anything in the grand scheme of things. It's just a few grams of material that won't end up as trub.

As far as the dunk and swish, I think that's fine as long as you're not doing it for the full 30 mins, and you're not bouncing it so hard as to compact the grains which would extract more tannin flavor than you want.
I do a few dunks in the beginning, and a few in the end, and then I'm done with it. The key is to be gentle and don't squeeze.
 
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