First Hard Cider Batch - No Sugar

After getting a few batches of homebrew under my belt, last fall my neighbors pressed apples, and I decided it was time to try some hard cider. I decided to go the easy/natural route, and pitched a regular dry yeast (Safale American) straight into 2 gallons of unprocessed unfiltered fresh-pressed juice, no sugar added. It's pretty darn sweet on its own (and delicious!) so I figured it wouldn't be an issue.

I racked it into secondary after a month, and racked it again after another month when I noticed it was still bubbling a bit (!) after relocating the carboy. It's cleared up nicely and smells fantastic.

My question, now, is how long do I have to wait for it taste good? It smells like a delicious hard cider, but it tastes like water and rubbing alcohol. I was expecting some harshness before it has time to mellow, but this just seems like a lack of flavor. Did my omission of sugar cause this? Did something else go wrong? Or do I just need to wait it out?

I'm planning on doing 5 gallons this fall, so I'm hoping to have a better idea of what I'm doing by then

Need more info sg reading. Temp. Yeast strain fg

What type of apple? Many eating apples will yield bland cider.

You can always add some frozen apple concentrate.

Unfortunately, in my excitement to try making cider, I neglected to take a specific gravity reading. I also did not take temperature readings, and basically just left it in the closet to do its thing, although the house has been fairly cool over winter. I've since moved it into the water heater closet which stays a bit warmer, although now that I've racked it twice, that won't have much of an effect. I used Safale US-05 American Ale yeast. I activated and pitched the whole packet, despite only having 2 gallons of juice; could that be an issue? The apples used were "deer" apples from an orchard in Eastern Washington, which supposedly make great cider (and they do in fact make delicious juice).

I guess I was mostly just curious if other people had experienced this sort of thing. Next batch I do, in the fall, I will certainly keep a detailed log of the process so I can hopefully track down the culprit.

Actually, my preference for a tasty cider is to not add sugar. Sugar creates more alcohol, so it is "boozier", but it's also drier in the finish and without much apple flavor. So you seemingly did it just as I would have.

It's possible that you just don't have great cider apples, but it's also possible that the temperature got a little high and that's created some of that alcohol flavor.

I'd just age it, and see how it improves with time. Usually, the "apple" flavor comes back with some age.

Thanks, Yooper. The temperature would have been too low if anything, but it was actively bubbling for at least a week.

It's coming up on 3 months on the 31st, so I'll give it another taste then. How long is it typically aged before bottling/drinking? Just curious so I don't get impatient

45-60 days is a good window without any additional sugars added. But then again, I also make small batches that are ready in 2-3 weeks. (Store bought juice makes a nice quick young cider) Some people add a lot of extra sugar and drink them in 8-12 months. The apples used will also have a determining factor on how long it will need to age.

You'll have to just keep playing with it until you decide what type of end product you like best. Dry, semi, carb'd, still, high ABV, low ABV. You'll always get a myriad of answers on the forum because everyone has their own methods and what they like best in a cider.

Deer apples are just picked up drops, usually late season cleanup. The problem as far as cider goes is you may very well just get one variety of most anything. They will make good juice but as cider they can be very lacking in character.

You may want to contact the orchard and see if they get apples pressed for themselves or others. This time of year and for the next couple of months apples will be taken out of storage for use and many are not great for eating apples so local mills are apt to be pressing some good blends soon. I'll be checking on that soon myself. That is the way it works here in my area of NH.

You'll get some complexity once the malic acid from primary changes into lactic acid.

Thank you for the feedback, everyone!

krackin, that makes sense. This fall I may try some small batches with specific varieties of apples as well to get a feel for what flavors each type of apple gives.

Good news! I sampled the cider again, now that it's been just over 3 months, and it tastes a lot better than last month! Much better apple flavor, much less harsh. I was starting to worry I may not get anything good out of this experiment, but my faith has been restored I think I'll give it another couple months before drinking the rest of it, but I really like where this is going now!

One question, though. In the last week or two, the cider has developed a thin film on the top of it, with a few tiny white bubbles in it. Is this normal? I gave the cider a good swirl and it seemed to dissipate. I didn't notice any odors or off flavors, but I just want to make sure I don't have a bacteria infection or anything going on there that I don't want.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

I get a thin film sometimes also. It is also sometimes accompanied by a sort of 'milky way' swirl in it. I've never had an infection on any of my batches before so I can only assume that maybe it comes with long term aging. (although it's not there all of the time)

Someone else might be able to weigh in, but I think you should be fine. I typically leave it alone on the top and then rack from underneath it.

benfarhner said:

One question, though. In the last week or two, the cider has developed a thin film on the top of it, with a few tiny white bubbles in it. Is this normal? I gave the cider a good swirl and it seemed to dissipate. I didn't notice any odors or off flavors, but I just want to make sure I don't have a bacteria infection or anything going on there that I don't want.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

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No, that's bad news! Is it completely topped up? It sounds like it's not and you're developing an infection. A "milky film" would probably be lactobacillus.

Are you going for sparkling cider or still? Also what abv were you looking for? I like to make a sparkling cider when I only have one type of apple usually get a sg of 1.06-1.065....let if go till I hit 1.015-1.020....then cold crash this as around 5.5 to 6.5 abv cold crash 5 days rack. Still let it sit 5 more days bottle. Pasteurize then store or drink it gives a light fruity flavor with a kick.

Pickled_Pepper said:

I get a thin film sometimes also. It is also sometimes accompanied by a sort of 'milky way' swirl in it. I've never had an infection on any of my batches before so I can only assume that maybe it comes with long term aging. (although it's not there all of the time)

Someone else might be able to weigh in, but I think you should be fine. I typically leave it alone on the top and then rack from underneath it.

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Yooper said:

No, that's bad news! Is it completely topped up? It sounds like it's not and you're developing an infection. A "milky film" would probably be lactobacillus.

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Uh oh! Well, it's been sealed in a glass carboy with a rubber stopper and an airlock, though I've removed the airlock maybe two or three times for a quick smell. I just flushed out the airlock when I tasted it and filled it with some fresh water. I've heard that vodka does a good job of keeping out bacteria, but I don't have any at the moment.

What should I do then? Should I rack it out from under the film and use a new sanitized airlock? Cold crash it?

jackfrost said:

Are you going for sparkling cider or still? Also what abv were you looking for? I like to make a sparkling cider when I only have one type of apple usually get a sg of 1.06-1.065....let if go till I hit 1.015-1.020....then cold crash this as around 5.5 to 6.5 abv cold crash 5 days rack. Still let it sit 5 more days bottle. Pasteurize then store or drink it gives a light fruity flavor with a kick.

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Thanks for the tips! I'm probably going to leave this one still. I don't really know what to expect ABV-wise, since I neglected to take any specific gravity readings, but I'll be sure to measure next time. I think if I can get 5 or 6 percent without using sugar, I'll be happy.

benfarhner said:

What should I do then? Should I rack it out from under the film and use a new sanitized airlock?

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Yes, rack carefully into a smaller carboy if you have one. Having too much headspace is a common culprit of 'skin' on cider. Dosing it with sulfites can also help prevent/minimize any negative results.

If you don't have a smaller carboy, you may want to bottle now and have it age in the bottle as opposed to the carboy. This way you can pasteurize the bottles and kill the infection for sure if you desire.

Unfortunately I don't have a smaller carboy... I'm using a 3 gal carboy right now, and it looks like I actually only have about 1 1/2 gal of cider in there (some loss from racking and tasting), so plenty of headroom.

I do, however, have a couple of growlers and a large spiced rum bottle I can use. I'm a bit hesitant to bottle... I wasn't planning on bottling this batch, and I haven't done bottle pasteurization before. I'll try the growlers and see how it goes.

A couple more pictures, showing the film and bubbles forming on top. Since I had swirled it around, the film is kind of broken up now, and doesn't cover the whole top any more. Plus, now some of the bubbles are on the side of the carboy.

I haven't really done any looking yet, but thought I'd ask: I don't have an airlock stopper that fits the rum bottle; is there a good make-shift solution that works well? I think I've read about people using balloons or other materials rubberbanded to the bottle...

hmmm...yah mine never looks like that. I guess mine is more of a 'sheen' on the top and not really a layer. I think LeBreton might have had the best suggestion. Bottle it and then pasteurize it to kill any nasties if you want to age it for any longer. If not, just cold crash it and drink it up as quick as you can since it's only a 1 gallon batch.

Pickled_Pepper, thanks. Good to know what I'm dealing with here.

I went ahead and racked into the growlers. As an experiment, I swirled the last bit, including the remaining sediment (not much left) and the layer of film on the top, and poured it into the rum jug just to see what happens with it.

Regarding cold crashing, is it possible to put the growlers in the fridge for a few days, then pull them out and continue to let them age, or possibly let them age in the fridge, in order to prevent further bacteria growth?

Thanks again everyone for your help!

When you pull them out of the fridge if there's an infection, it will kick back up and so will the yeast. You are going to have to bottle it and pasteurize if you want to make sure everything is completely dead.

Who knows, it might not have been an infection at all. But if it were mine, I'd crash it, drink it, sanitize everything and then start another batch as soon as possible.

Okay, thanks. I was considering jacking this batch, so that'll be my backup plan if the bacteria persists.

Moderate success! After sitting in the growlers for a couple weeks (with airlocks) with no sign of activity, I had a couple people taste test with me and it didn't taste too bad Still not super appley, but certainly improving. I think not carbonating it also detracted from the flavor a bit, but I'm not bottling this batch. Also, the growler that I left the bacteria and sediment in smells fine too and shows no sign of activity, so it may be just fine after all.

Is there any harm to aging the cider in the fridge in the growlers? Or rather, will it continue to age in the fridge the same as if it weren't?

I think I will still try jacking one of the growlers as well, especially since I didn't carbonate.

Thanks again everyone for all your help and feedback! I look forward to a more successful larger batch this fall

I've never aged in the fridge, but I'm sure it will probably continue to age in there just as well. Once mine go in the fridge, I can't seem to keep from drinking them.

Pickled_Pepper said:

I've never aged in the fridge, but I'm sure it will probably continue to age in there just as well. Once mine go in the fridge, I can't seem to keep from drinking them.

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I second that