Kreuzberg beer

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*KT*

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Hi all, i'm in the military and stationed in Germany. I have recently gotten into beer brewing and want to try and make Kreuzberg beer. Has anyone else ever had this kind of beer and has anyone ever heard of a recipe. It is only made in Kreuzberg at the monastery. Thanks.

KT
 
I've been to Kreuzberg many times (last time last July).

The closest I can come to their beer is a Kellerbier.

Caveman Kellerbier
5 US gallons
All temperatures are in degrees Fahrenheit

All Grain Recipe
Ingredients
8.00 lbs Weyerman Bavarian Pils malt
3.75 lbs Briess Munich malt
2 cups French oak chips (light toast)
2.0 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh or Hersbrucker hops for bittering (8 AAU)
1.5 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh or Hersbrucker hops for flavor/aroma
your choice of yeast:
- Wyeast 2206 (Bavarian Lager)
- Wyeast 2308 (Munich Lager)
- White Labs WLP838 (Southern German Lager)
- White Labs WLP920 (Old Bavarian Lager)

Step By Step

The day before brewing, make a tea out of the oak chips. The tea will be used at pitching time:
- toast them on a cookie sheet at 250 degrees for about an hour
- put 2 cups oak chips in 180 degree water
- seal this in a jar, let it cool, and put it in the fridge overnight


Use a traditional step infusion mash:
- dough-in at 122 degrees
- let rest for about 30 minutes
- infuse with hot water to reach temp of 148 degrees
- hold temp for 15 minutes
- raise temp to 156 degrees
- hold temp for 15 minutes
- sparge slowly with near-boiling water until mash is at 170 degrees
- lower sparge water temp to keep mash at or slightly below 170 degrees
- finish sparging with kettle gravity of about 1.050

Boil wort for 90 minutes.
Add bittering hops with 75 minutes left in the boil.
At flame-off, add the flavor/aroma hops.
Cool wort to as close as you can to the fermentation temp (48 degrees).
Rack to carboy.
Add oak-chip tea.
Pitch yeast.

Ferment at 48 degrees to completion (perhaps 3 weeks).
Rack to secondary and allow to warm to room temp for a 2-day diacetyl rest.
Rack to tertiary and allow to age for about 2 months at 50 to 55 degrees.
Bottle or keg, but
do not prime it.


Extract + Grain Recipe
Ingredients
6.50 lbs Weyerman Bavarian Pils LME
3.00 lbs Briess Munich malt
Same oak chips.
Same hops.
Same yeast.

Step By Step
Make the oak-chip tea the day before brewing as described above.
Put cracked grain into steeping bags.
Put bags into at least 2 gallons of cold water.
Slowly (over the course of 30 minutes) heat the water to temp of 170 to 190.
Remove bags from water, put into strainer and rinse with several cups cold water. DO NOT SQUEEZE.
Turn off heat, add extract, and start boiling.
Add hops and follow the same fermentation schedule as described above.

Extract Only Recipe
Ingredients
5.80 lbs Weyerman Bavarian Pils LME
2.70 lbs Bavarian Dark LME
same oak chips
same hops
same yeast

Step By Step
Make the oak-chip tea the day before brewing as described above.
Heat water, add extracts.
Follow the same directions for hops, oak-chips, and fermenting as described above.

 
homebrewer_99 said:
Use a traditional step infusion mash:
- dough-in at 122 degrees
- let rest for about 30 minutes
- infuse with hot water to reach temp of 148 degrees
- hold temp for 15 minutes
- raise temp to 156 degrees
- hold temp for 15 minutes

I've never tried this kind of beer, but I looked the mash schedulle and suggest that the protein rest should only be 10-15 min at the most. I also noticed the short beta amylase rest at 148. This will not give you much Maltose to have a decent attenuation. Even bocks (which are supposed to finish high) hold such a rest for at least 30 min. The alpha amylase rest (156) should be held until conversion is complete. It should be done after 15 min, but better check with iodine.

Kai
 
I realize I am 5 years late on this post, but have you found any recipes on it yet? I just came back from Kruezberg with another 2L. I am going to brake it down and attempt to brew according to the purity law 1516. I might have friend at a university that can mass spec the beer to see the yeast/hops/ and grains used to make it. I'll post more If I come up with anything.
 
I just started to make my own wine and joined this forum and thought I would try out making some Beer and Kreuzberg beer was the 1st one I thought of, man do I miss those trips to Kreuzberg for a bratwurst and a tall stein of the best beer I have ever tasted. It has been since 2005 since the last time I have been in Germany. I can remember the long trips my Soldiers would make, they would come back with their car bottomed out cause the trunk was so full of the stuff.
I think I will try and make this recipe. Have you guys changed anything on the recipe? It might be a while before I get everything together and make this but I am excited to try it out.

:mug:
 
I to am curious as to the make-up of this brew I was stationed in Bad Hersfeld Germany and went to Kreusberg many times...I think it has help me become who I am today...as far as my brewing goes. To fdemt84 let us know how this brew turns out if you were able to brew this beer. I am using a beer calc to modify and toying with making my own version although it will be hard as I dont have that growler to compare it to. Thanks god for the Army and Cav cup competitions in VFlicken or I would never had that wonderful Beer opertunity!
 
I haven't. Even able to brew it yet as I didn't have the required equipment to lager. I plan on doing this beer next once the equipment is up and running. I need to get beer smith so I can try and modify it slightly to fit the beer with the area and the purity law. But it looks like its a good starting place I'll let you know how it comes out once it's done
 
This thread died a while back but I'm going to bring it back to life. I'm hoping that this comes somewhat close to the real deal. I have never tasted a better brew.

I order all my ingredients yesterday and picked up some new equipment today. I was going to do the extract version but it was crazy hard to find. Then when I did find it the price was really high and the shipping was almost as much as the extract cost. Found the grains at a reasonable price. This is my first shot at an all grain recipe so I hope it goes well.

I'll update as the process goes. Stay tuned for news as to how the end product comes out. (this will not be my last post here. I will see to it that the recipe is completed and I post all the info I possibly can about it)
 
I'm brewing this on Wed. I'm going to use a 8lb Pils, 4lb Munich, Wyeast 2206. I'm going to first wort hop with 1oz Hallertauer, 1oz at 60, 1.5 oz at flameout. I'm going to use the oak tea mentioned in the earlier post just to see what it adds.
 
Just started my mash. Ill post as I go im using the exact recipe bit for bit for thw full grain version.
 
Wort is cooled and yeast is pitched. I used 8lbs weyerman bavarian pils, 4lbs briess munich, white labs WL838. I also used the oak tea. I could only find the hersbrucker hops so thats what I went with. I first wort hopped with 1oz, 1oz at 60 and 1.5 at flameout. Had a 1.050 kettle gravity with a 1.043ish OG. The wort ended up being a little concentrated after sparging and before the boil. It did cook down quite a bit. Once I cooled it and brought it back to 5 gallons the gravity dropped a few points. Not 100% sure why. This was my first all grain batch so... ill keep posting as I move along. I did all the rests as writtwn in the original recipe. I see that some people had made some other suggestions. Ill keep playing with this one until I get it the way I want it. And good luck whitewhause. Let us know how it goes.
 
The yeast seems to be a little slow to start. Hopefully the airlock will be bubbling in the morning.
 
Wort is cooled and yeast is pitched. I used 8lbs weyerman bavarian pils, 4lbs briess munich, white labs WL838. I also used the oak tea. I could only find the hersbrucker hops so thats what I went with. I first wort hopped with 1oz, 1oz at 60 and 1.5 at flameout. Had a 1.050 kettle gravity with a 1.043ish OG. The wort ended up being a little concentrated after sparging and before the boil. It did cook down quite a bit. Once I cooled it and brought it back to 5 gallons the gravity dropped a few points. Not 100% sure why. This was my first all grain batch so... ill keep posting as I move along. I did all the rests as writtwn in the original recipe. I see that some people had made some other suggestions. Ill keep playing with this one until I get it the way I want it. And good luck whitewhause. Let us know how it goes.

The gravity dropped because you diluted it by adding the water to bring it back up to 5 gals. Keep in mind that hydrometers are calibrated at 60deg, so they will read a lower gravity at a high wort temp.
Most Lager yeast will seem to start slow because of the cooler temps, but it's bottom fermenting so don't worry too much right now.
What was your gravity after the boil at yeast pitch temp? You mention kettle gravity and OG?
 
What I labeled as OG was gravity at pitch temp. The yeast is going strong now. No worries there.
 
I am really curious as to how it will taste. Please keep us informed. This is a really special beer.
 
So I didn't let it age for the full 2 months. I let it go for about a month. I have to say that this beer came out exceptionally good. I don't even have a real set up to full grain brewing. I winged it the whole way. And it still came out great. I picked up the stuff to do the partial grain recipe next. I'll try it out and see what I happens. I actually was able to find both types of hops at a local homebrew store. And I'll be using the white labs southern Germany lager yeast this time. Some slight changes. Working on perfecting it.
 
As good as this beer came out I can't say that its super close to what we all know love from Germany. But its getting there. I can taste the similarities. One question though. My beer came out with a slightly nutty aftertaste. Is this from something I did wrong? A characteristic of the yeast or hops I used? Thanks.
 
Mine is still conditioning. Been about 3 weeks now. I'll let you know my findings when it's done. I'll probably bottle this, so It'll be about 2 months yet.
 
lol....funny you posted this. I just transferred yesterday into a keg to carb. I decided to keg carb and bottle from the keg so I can control the carb rate and have no sediment in the bottles.

And yes, I did try some today(with almost no carb) and it is pretty damn good! It definitely has a good German/Belgian flavor with slight oak in the background. I'm more of an IPA guy, but I like brewing anything, so I'm going to take some to a buddy that's a huge fan of German styles and get his opinion.

Admittedly I've never had the real deal, so I'd just be guessing at a true comparison. All the images I find show it in the growler or a stoneware mug, so I can't even get a good feel for what the color should be. Mine is kinda dark, not Stout dark, but not German Pilsner light either.
 
It's a Bavarian Dunkel, but from the Franconia region. This beer is tasty! Very well balanced and you'll want to drink a lot of it.
 
If you can find Aktien Landbier, this is the closest example that comes to mind, it has similar qualities. Though it is lighter and watery by comparison.
 
I'll tap one in a couple days and post a pic.

marconlin, I assume you've had it? Is there any wood, or nutty flavor to the original?
 
marconlin have you been to their website. http://www.kreuzbergbier.de/ it has some info about their biers. I miss them so much around christmas time I almost cry thinking of the Weihnachts bier. I noticed they use Pilsner and Munich malt for their base. Then they use Hallertauer for there hops.

Whitehause- I have had this beer also and I do not remember a wood or nutty flavor to the beer. It was almost more sweet to me. Very smooth with extremely low carbonation. Cream color head. It had a smooth malty taste.
 
marconlin have you been to their website. http://www.kreuzbergbier.de/ it has some info about their biers. I miss them so much around christmas time I almost cry thinking of the Weihnachts bier. I noticed they use Pilsner and Munich malt for their base. Then they use Hallertauer for there hops.

Whitehause- I have had this beer also and I do not remember a wood or nutty flavor to the beer. It was almost more sweet to me. Very smooth with extremely low carbonation. Cream color head. It had a smooth malty taste.

I guess I might have to say it's really more a touch of "roast" that I sense in the background. Mine is malty with just slight bitterness, but fairly dark in color.

Ok, now I gota go get a tap on this and try it again now that it's been in the keg for a week or so.
 
Here's a pic of my attempt. The roast/wood/nutty flavor has completely gone away, now it's just smooth, with a slight sweetness, a touch of bitter at the back with just a little earthy/floral note. A really nice drinking beer.

It's actually pretty clear for the first tap off the keg, but it's warm here in PA right now so the glass was sweating before I could get the pic.

179706_10200282673658604_1246587726_n.jpg
 
That looks pretty close to the real deal. To bad your flying blind. I can only say that when you pour a glass, and need another, your on the right track.
 
I did the partial mash version of this and must say that it's a damn fine beer. I won't go so far as to say it's an exact clone, but it's close.

One of the biggest differences that I notice was the head. I recall the original Kreutzberg presented an almost whip cream like head that was often still at the bottom of the mug after the beer was consumed. I did opt to prime mine with a bit of bottling sugar and this could very well be the reasoning behind the difference.

One last noticeable difference was the oak flavoring of the clone was extremely pronounced. I will try again and shave the oak down by 1/4 or so. Overall, it ain't the real deal but it's a damn fine brew.

10991072_1052869161406950_6341902913677527137_n.jpg
 
Reviving this thread, as Kreuzberg Dunkel is my favorite beer in the world.
I am close to a pretty tight clone. Brewing again this month to dial it in.

It's a Dunkel, not a Kellerbier, though it is light as far as the spectrum of Dunkels.

And that BYO-published "Caveman Kellerbier" is way off - there is no oak flavor in either the Kreuzberg Dunkel or any Franconian Kellerbier. Whoever wrote that recipe and article on it has clearly not experienced many Franconian Kellerbiers first hand.

There should not be oak in a Kellerbier.
Not even a little.

Here is a pic of the real Kreuzberg Dunkel:
Kberg I.jpg
 
Thanks! While it will end up being outside of normal Dunkel season, I’m going to look to get this in the pipeline. A couple of other questions if I may. What is your target OG? Mash temp/schedule? Preferred yeast? Thanks again!
 
I had Kreuzberg many times while in Germany. It’s one of my all time favorites. I am going to brew Cavpilot’s recipe with Hochkurz mash and S-189 yeast
 
Thanks! While it will end up being outside of normal Dunkel season, I’m going to look to get this in the pipeline. A couple of other questions if I may. What is your target OG? Mash temp/schedule? Preferred yeast? Thanks again!
OG of the original is 1.054, so that's what I target.
I feel like KBurg Dunkel has a fairly well-attenuated but medium body. I used my typical non-Pilsner profile of 60 min at 150, 30 min at 163, and 10 min at 172 (mashout). The last 2 steps are really key to getting epic head. You can fully convert well before that, but mashing is about much more than just sacchrification.
I like WY 2206 or WLP860. Yes, I know they are very different yeasts, but they both work wonderfully.
 
I had Kreuzberg many times while in Germany. It’s one of my all time favorites. I am going to brew Cavpilot’s recipe with Hochkurz mash and S-189 yeast
If you don't have Barke Munich, I'd go with a 50/50 mix of Munich I and Munich II in place of the Barke.
And please, only use quality German malts.
 
Man! I just ran across this post. My son was stationed in Schweinfurt and when we went over for his wedding, he took me to Kreuzberg. I walked up the hill but I stumbled back. Best I've ever had! Now you all have me wanting it but I need more practice first! Thanks for the memory!
 
Man! I just ran across this post. My son was stationed in Schweinfurt and when we went over for his wedding, he took me to Kreuzberg. I walked up the hill but I stumbled back. Best I've ever had! Now you all have me wanting it but I need more practice first! Thanks for the memory!
My fiancee is FROM Schweinfurt. In fact I am going back in a few weeks to visit her family. Her dad always makes time for a trip to Kreuzberg when we visit.
 
My most recent attempt is the closest I've come yet.
65% Barke Munich
30% Pilsner
4% Caramunich II
1% DeHusked Carafa II
23 IBU of Tett and Hallertau, mostly bittering with a half ounce of Hallertau at 10 minutes

I'm inclined to give this a go soon too. Do you think it would make a negative flavor impact if I dropped the Carafa Special and just got all my color from Sinamar? I don't have any Carafa right now. But, man, do I have plenty of Sinamar!
 
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