Wee Heavy Strong Scotch Ale

Williams 728
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Further to my above post, I found a great study called "Decoction vs Melanoidin malt". Not sure if the copy/paste will work but will give it a shot. If not, that is the title above where you can search it out.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=345844

Seems to me I may be better off trying this method. Shouldn't Scottish ales be more to the malty/balanced side than the dry/bitter anyways?
 
OkanaganMike said:
Seems to me I may be better off trying this method. Shouldn't Scottish ales be more to the malty/balanced side than the dry/bitter anyways?
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That's the whole point of Scottish ales. They are an expression of malt. The point of decoction is not to increase the ferment ability or dryness of the beer in this case. It is to accentuate the malt. The boiling of the mash deactivates the enzymes and caramelizes the sugars....yummy.
 
permo said:
That's the whole point of Scottish ales. They are an expression of malt. The point of decoction is not to increase the ferment ability or dryness of the beer in this case. It is to accentuate the malt. The boiling of the mash deactivates the enzymes and caramelizes the sugars....yummy.
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Thanks Permo. What do think of subbing out a pound of base malt for a pound of Melanoidin malt and a mash out to 170 holding for 10mins. Wouldn't the mash out similate a decoction? I figure that will make the meloidin around 6% of grain bill.
 
I'll give it a shot and let you know how it worked out. Though hard to compare against one with via decoction method. I'm fairly green, use BIAB and trying KISS method without sacrificing quality.
 
Pulled the pin and made this up on Saturday with some adjustments.

Default All-Grain - Strong Scotch Ale
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Nottingham - changed White Lab liquid- Edinburgh Scotch Ale as a yeast starter -

Batch Size (Gallons): 6 - changed to 5
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.018
IBU: 27
Boiling Time (Minutes): 80
Color: 17.8
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 9 days at 62 degrees
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 60 days at 55
Tasting Notes: Slightly sweet, malt, toffee, roasted nuts, coffee....super complex after primary.

14.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 81.16 % - Changed to 13.00lb
Added 1.00 lb Melenoidan Malt
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.80 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 5.80 %
1.00 lb Special Roast Barley Malt (50.0 SRM) Grain 5.80 %
0.15 lb Roasted Barley(300.0 SRM) Grain 0.87 %
0.10 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 0.58 %
0.50 oz Chinook [11.80 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 15.2 IBU -changed to Williamette
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 11.7 IBU - changed to Williamette

BIAB single infusion method starting with 8.25gal No sparge.
Mash in @ 170F temp dropped to 160F by time everything stirred in, wrapped and covered.
Mashed 1 hr. Mashout to 170F for 10mins then drain and squeeze bag.
Preboil gravity 1.060 (temp adjusted)
Preboil wort collected 7.5gal
Gave boil an extra 20mins to bring wort amount down to about 6gal before chilling and draining. (Next time I'll make sure to have 6.5 gal in as I only collected 5 gal not 5.5).

According to Brewer's friend calculator..
Conversion efficiency = 80%
Preboil efficiency = 72%
End Kettle efficiency = 77%
Brewhouse efficiency = 64%

Posted my efficiency results to another thread specific to the results but will ask here too, do these numbers seem correct? Any suggestions on increasing them?

I presumed Special Roast is the same or at least close to Roast Barley Malt. (?) - Used it anyways.

Tastes awesome already, not sure how I'm going to make it waiting 2 mos :(
 
I've brewed this 3 times all with some moderate changes. Grain bill stayed the same with the exception of adding some flaked oats for mouth feel and some carapils to help with head retention.

I used hops that are more traditional for the style (fuggles and goldings) and I've been fermenting with Nottingham.

The beer is way beyond awesome and I've sent it to competition with good success. It's a winner for sure.
 
cherbhy said:
Good luck with your brew on Sunday! This is an excellent recipe. When I brewed this last year, I did a decoction mash, and the results were very good. Brewers will argue that adding some melanoiden malt will produce a similar effect, and there have been blind tastings where people have been unable to distinguish decoction brews vs. those with melanoiden malt, but, alas, I'm a believer. IMO decoction adds a certain je ne sais quoi that is not easily replicated. Also worth noting: the step mash that decoction allows will create a different flavor profile/body than a single infusion (you're probably already aware of this).

As to your recipe, I used wlp028 when I brewed permo's recipe and the results were great. That strain really accentuates the malt character nicely, and I can see the flavor contributions melding well with bourbon chips. The yeast is a great choice. I would advise, however, to reconsider the peated malt. Peated malts can introduce some really unpleasant & harsh phenolics. Other wood smoked malts tend to have more mellow characteristics (i.e. cherrywood smoked malt), and bare in mind that the bourbon chips will contribute some wood flavor in and of themselves. You may want to consider some biscuit or special malt to round out the crystal and dark roasted malts, and some munich to increase melanoidens, aid in head retention, and contribute to 'maltiness.' Special roast in particular adds a toastiness in this brew that I find desirable and is unachievable with only the dry/bittersweet coffee flavor of roasted barley.

In any case, I hope this helps, and happy brewing!



Willamette is a classic choice for this style.
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Just wanted to update my recipe on this. Thanks for the suggestions, this came out really good for my first try at making this style. I took the advice of dropping the peated malt and I am glad I did, I really like the final product and think the peat would have been to much. The WLP 28 is a fantastic yeast! I wasn't able to do a decoction mash, but I will on the next try of this beer. I fermented it low and the final product is very clean and tasty. Here is the final recipe:

Wee Oakey
6 gallons
16 lbs Marris Otter
12oz C80
1lb C60
1lb Smoked malt
4.8 oz Roasted Barley
2.5oz EKG @ 60
1oz EKG @ 20
WLP028
Mashed @ 150 (will mash higher next time)
Fermented @ 60 for 2 weeks
Kegged with 3oz Bourbon soaked Oak chips
1.080 SG
1.010 FG
 
I'm going to brew this on Friday. I'm making two substitutions: going with EKG, but staying at the same IBU's, and using WLP028. But otherwise, I'm going per recipe. This will be my first decoction mash. Wish me luck! :)
 
KatoBaggins said:
I'm going to brew this on Friday. I'm making two substitutions: going with EKG, but staying at the same IBU's, and using WLP028. But otherwise, I'm going per recipe. This will be my first decoction mash. Wish me luck! :)
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This might be the ultimate way to brew this beer.
 
OkanaganMike said:
Does that finger floating in the mash add to the flavor? Kinda like a bay leaf in the stock pot eh?
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Hahahaha, yup! But really that's just my floating thermometer. I was having erratic readings from my submersible digital one, so I went with the old reliable analog technology.
 
SG was 1.019 after only 6 days with WLP028! I'll check again in a couple days, but I think she's done. The hydro sample was friggin' good already. This one should be great! [emoji106][emoji2][emoji481]
 
Bottling day finally! Question though, Tastybrew.com is telling me to only add .4 oz table sugar for priming based on a Scottish heavy. Scottish Heavies only have a carbonation 1.025 according to this site which ain't much but I' ve never done one like this before.

Can this be right?!
 
OkanaganMike said:
Thinking Ièm gonna go 2 points carb
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Well................may have a problem. I dropped a couple in the fridge 2 days ago and took them to the lake last night. When I opened the first there was a very high pressure pop and they fizzed out like crazy. Lost at least half the bottle. Second one I tried to open it and close it again but wasn't too successful and it seemed all the carbonation left the beer. Any ideas? Getting a little gun shy with opening the others. :(
 
I've been having an issue with some over carbing so I spoke with some of the local professionals. They say when your beer is fermented out, you can assume that already has a certain volume of CO2 dissolved in solution. What that means to use when we bottle condition is that if you calculate your priming sugar based on nothing in solution, POP! So, assume that there is already 0.8 volumes CO2 in solution. And prime from there. I use Brewer's Friend's app to calculate and I've been nailing it for the most part.
 
Just brewed this today and the sample tasted amazing! Thank you for sharing this recipe!
 
The grain bill and mash schedule is the magic on this one for sure. Its so malty , toasty and nutty.
 
Adirondack47 said:
Has anybody oaked their batch, and if so how did it turn out?
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I just bottled mine today after using 2 ounces of French Oak chips soaked in scotch. The sample I pulled from the bottling bucket was absolutely amazing! I used scotch instead of bourbon because I was concerned bourbon would bee to sweet for a very malty beer. The scotch soak in my opinion worked fantastically and was the right choice to me.

If you have not brewed this yet I will post again in a month when it is carbed up.
 
Hi, i plan to brew a scotch next year, would there be any benefit to use golden premise instead of maris otter.
Also, is caramel malt + decotion mash + first wort caramel too much caramel and malt flavor? or is it even better?
cheers
 
Blou04 said:
Hi, i plan to brew a scotch next year, would there be any benefit to use golden premise instead of maris otter.
Also, is caramel malt + decotion mash + first wort caramel too much caramel and malt flavor? or is it even better?
cheers
Click to expand...

I'm very satisfied with the amount of caramel I got with the Crystal 60, roasted malt and chocolate malt from the original recipe. The changes I made in the recipe were going with EKG hops and WhiteLabs Edinburgh WLP028 yeast.

If you love huge caramel flavors adding in first wort caramel might be good for you. For me, I think it would be too over the top...maybe. ;)

If you chose to do the above amount of caramel, IMHO, you would not be able to tell the difference between golden promise and maris otter. But for that matter, I don't think I'd be able to tell GP from MO in the original recipe either. It's definitely a caramelly/malty beer.

PS - Let us know how yours turns out. This is a wonderful recipe. I'll make it again soon.
 
Blou04 said:
Hi, i plan to brew a scotch next year, would there be any benefit to use golden premise instead of maris otter.
Also, is caramel malt + decotion mash + first wort caramel too much caramel and malt flavor? or is it even better?
cheers
Click to expand...

There is already a lot going on in this recipe. Try it as published, and then make single changes each time and see if you like it. I'm on my fifth batch in three years - continuous process improvement, don'cha know. :mug:

My changes for personal taste include Kent Golding for style, and mash 149F for 60min (no decoction - I'm lazy). YMMV. The flavors are malt/ethanol, then caramel/smoke, then a faint hint of cherry. Really good.
 
Thanks, i already modified it since roasted barley(300 srm) is impossible to find in Belgium. I will substitute it with a smaler amount of black malt or black barley(1100-1400 ebc). :D
 
I'm still pretty new to AG and plan on brewing this soon once I'm completely confident and dialed in on my system. It will be my first decoction.

Those of you who have done the OP's mash profile - 45 minutes at 149 and decoct to raise to 157 for 45 minutes - how do you set up your volumes in BeerSmith?

For a single infusion batch sparge, BeerSmith tells me to mash in with 1.25 quarts per pound of grain. No problem, understood. When I change the mash profile to a single decoction the strike water ratio changes to 2 quarts per pound. With this grain bill that's 34.5 quarts of water, which only leaves a gallon for sparging. That can't be right, right? What's a more reasonable water/grain ratio?

Related, with the default 2 quarts/pound ratio, BeerSmith says to decoct something like 5 quarts (software is at home don't remember the exact number) but the videos I've watched all show about a quart of thick mash per pound of grain. As I change the ratio the decoction volume changes, as I would expect.

How are you guys doing this? Thanks!
 
Brewed this in Oct with a few minor tweaks, bottled on 12/1. This is really good - very malty. I've been having bottle carbing issues (consistently undercard / head issues) until recently, and unfortunately this was one my of last brews where I had these issues. So it's very lightly carbed but still really nice... Thanks for the recipe!
 
Those using different hops such as EKG, are you raising the amount used to match IBUs? Ex. did you use say 1 oz EKG at 60min and 30min to get a little closer to the original or stick to a half ounce at both times?
 
NickersonC said:
Those using different hops such as EKG, are you raising the amount used to match IBUs?
Click to expand...

I'm using 1.3 oz EKG 60 minutes, .7 oz 30 minutes. I'm limited to a 6# stovetop mash, so I do a partial mash at 149F for 60 minutes. (Decoction is right out for me.)

Just looked through the brew log, and I have made this recipe seven times. For awhile, I was substituting Maris Otter (and Maris Otter LME) for base, which provides a very nice black cherry "flash" at the end of the tasting. This recipe provides three or four tastes in one sip - it's a keeper.
 
Not sure if it's been asked but what do we think about using wyeast 1450 Denny's favorite? Planned on the pound of melanoidin malt instead of decoction and decently high mash temp of 154F, overkill with the 1450?
 
NickersonC said:
Not sure if it's been asked but what do we think about using wyeast 1450 Denny's favorite? Planned on the pound of melanoidin malt instead of decoction and decently high mash temp of 154F, overkill with the 1450?
Click to expand...

I think the meanoidin is not needed. If I where to use 1450 on this beer I would mash at 156 and ferment 55-60 degrees with it. You don't want this beer drying out.
 
For a single infusion batch sparge, BeerSmith tells me to mash in with 1.25 quarts per pound of grain. No problem, understood. When I change the mash profile to a single decoction the strike water ratio changes to 2 quarts per pound. With this grain bill that's 34.5 quarts of water, which only leaves a gallon for sparging. That can't be right, right? What's a more reasonable water/grain ratio?
Click to expand...

Sorry to quote myself on this. I'm planning this brew day and haven't done a decoction before. I'm wondering what you guys are using for your mash in water/grain ratio.
 
BrianGee said:
Sorry to quote myself on this. I'm planning this brew day and haven't done a decoction before. I'm wondering what you guys are using for your mash in water/grain ratio.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between a step mash and a decoction. With a decoction you should not run into water volume issues/deffiencies. You mash at your normal ratio and pull a portion of the mash and boil it to create the temperature steps.
 
Thank you. It makes perfect sense, it was BeerSmith's default that was throwing me off.
 
I brewed this up on Wed and it was probably the best brew day I've had...I hit numbers and volumes perfectly! Not to mention I did my first decoction..I really can't believe how easy that is to do. I just scooped most of the grains out and added them back to the kettle and brought to a boil stirring constantly. Then added back to the mash tun until I hit 157. Let sit for 45 then added everything back into the tun and went from there.

Starting OG 1.084 with right at 5.5 gallons into the fermenter
I rehydrated 2 packs of notty and this morning she is bubbling like crazy at 60 degrees.

If I can finish around 1.016 or so like BF is predicting, I should have one heck of nice strong brew! Thanks again permo.
 

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