Heady Topper yeast harvest

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Vegan - another question.

Do you smell your starters as you go along? I ask because of this.

Step one was extremely peachy, much like the aroma from the can of HT I drank. Step 2 is chugging along. Some krausen and definite yeast sediment in the bottom of the flasks.

However, today, the aroma I get, especially when I swirl it well before I remove the foil lid to smell, is very VERY lightly pepper/clove phenolic. It may just be the power of suggestion, because I read another thread today where some people were reporting peppery, almost Belgian like qualities early on in beers made with Conan. Universally, the phenolics and esters disappear after a couple of weeks conditioning the finished beers.

Have you noticed this with your Conan cultures?

I went back over my sanitation procedures and find it unlikely (though not impossible) that I picked up some wild yeast.

On harvest day, I wiped the whole top of the can with a cotton ball soaked in rubbing alcohol. I decanted the beer into a glass, leaving about 100 ml behind in the can. The dregs of the can went into a sanitized flask for one, a sanitized mason jar for the other. The rims of both receiving vessels had been wiped with alcohol and flamed (as had the mouth of the mason jar containing my canned, sanitized wort). I even did a quick starsan soak (soak not spray) of the aluminum foil that went over the mouth of the step one vessels. Both got O2. But I boiled my oxygenating stone and then gave it a starsan soak before oxygenating.

The samples still smelled peachy when I put them in the step 2 flasks last night. Both flasks got a full submersion in starsan. The mouths of everything were wiped with alcohol and flamed like I did in step one. The O2 stone got the same treatment (boil then starsan). The foil that went over the caps got starsan.

The aroma is not objectionable at all. But it is definitely clovey. If that is not expected, I can only think of 2 things that might have happened:

1. I picked up some wild yeast one of the times I popped off the aluminum foil to smell whether it smelled malty or like alcohol. I find that hard to believe because I have 2 flasks going and both of them have the identical smell at exactly the same level of concentration (perceptually anyway).

2. The room where my stirplate and shaken flasks were sitting all day today does get a little warm in the afternoons. It is upstairs and can get to 75-77F ambient. Although a couple of posts here discuss keeping them warm for propagation.

I brew in 10 gallon batches and am considering only giving half of my batch the cultured Conan. Just in case. I am not making a HT clone. But I am making a standard IPA with my first attempt.

Any ideas?


That sounds normal to me, I don't think you picked any bugs up. You sound very well-versed in sanitation, and you are doing more than I am in that sense. You were smelling the actual Heady Topper in the first step. I usually get Heady smell in the first two, then other smells take over. The juicy peach is always in the final beer though. I wouldn't worry about ruining your beer with it, I'd proceed as originally plan, do the entire 10 with it.

I've harvested up to 78 degrees before and the final beer always tasted the same. It throws some funky smells, which is why I think it could be a hybrid Belgian strain, but it didn't deter me and I never had bad fermentation from it.
 
That sounds normal to me, I don't think you picked any bugs up. You sound very well-versed in sanitation, and you are doing more than I am in that sense. You were smelling the actual Heady Topper in the first step. I usually get Heady smell in the first two, then other smells take over. The juicy peach is always in the final beer though. I wouldn't worry about ruining your beer with it, I'd proceed as originally plan, do the entire 10 with it.

I've harvested up to 78 degrees before and the final beer always tasted the same. It throws some funky smells, which is why I think it could be a hybrid Belgian strain, but it didn't deter me and I never had bad fermentation from it.

I've always been a freak about sanitation. I got even more so a couple of years ago when a tiny nick in a piece of transfer hose ruined my beloved oatmeal stout. It took down that beer and another one before I identified the source.

Between that and the fact that this is my first foray into harvesting dregs, I am a little gun shy.

I am really hoping to master this. I have three 750ml Cantillon Geuze in a 55F wine fridge that I hand carried back from the brewery in Brussels last summer. If I get this process down, I'm considering trying to grow the bugs from those.
 
And FWIW, I feel even better. I just went up to shake the one I don't have on a stirplate. The bottom of the flask was a solid layer of white yeast and the starter wort was clear as a bell.
 
Unbelievable. Bumped up to my 1L step about 3 hrs ago. I just went up to check the one on the stir plate, and swirl the one that isn't. Stir plate had just the faint beginning of a krausen. The other one put off some foam when I swirled it.

The clove is still there, although reduced because of the added starter wort. But I can swear that I smell some peach trying to creep back in.

What kind of sorcery have I unleashed?
 
Harvested from 2 cans last night. Is the stuff that settled out really quickly yeast already? This is my first time harvesting from a can/bottle.

I have it at about 72F and I swirl it whenever I walk by it, which is often, just to check on it :)
 
Wow, this stuff is active. My stir plate flask is staying relatively under control. But I went up this morning to swirl the one that isn't on a stir plate and wound up with foam all over my hands and the counter-top. I put a couple of drops of anti-foam from a pipette when I stepped up last night. I may need to double check the dosage recommendation an hit it again tonight.

Based on what I see when I stop the sir plate for a bit and let that one settle out, I am thinking I may have had a higher starting cell count in the one that did not get the stir plate.
 
Harvested from 2 cans last night. Is the stuff that settled out really quickly yeast already? This is my first time harvesting from a can/bottle.

I have it at about 72F and I swirl it whenever I walk by it, which is often, just to check on it :)

Probably not. You will see a yeast cake that looks more dense. I have a picture of the 1st step finished on my blog, link in my sig about harvesting conan from a can. Pic is about halfway down that post.
 
I brewed a standard IPA with mine, and bottled Thursday. Its tastes very good, you won't be disappointed in it. Brew with a solid and fruity hop profile though, otherwise the yeast may not some its true colors. Check this out though, I'm growing some cascade that have been going for one week strong now. I'm pumped, I'll transplant them outdoors in another week.

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Well it depends on what you have going. You have to think of it like a yeast starter. Split it up evenly
 
So my first step has been going for a little over 2.5 days. Seems like the stuff at the bottom is increasing in size, but it doesn't quite look like the creamy white stuff in some of the pictures in here and on Vegan's site. There are tiny bubbles around the edges, but they could be persisting from when I swirl.

So the first 2 days, the house was about 70-71F and now the temps outside have dropped and now it's only 66F in here. I was planning on stepping up after 4 days, so should I try to warm it up to lower 70's before stepping up tomorrow night? Should I wait till I see some other signs of fermentation before stepping up? I do have 5 more cans, so I have other attempts if these don't work, but I was hoping to do all of them and trade/give away to friends and some people in my local home brew club.
 
I haven't ever heard a story of it not working in over 50 cans. Warm it up to 72+ and shake it. Regardless of what happens proceed to step 2 after the 4th day then reevaluate after that step is done.
 
I saw a noticeable increase in suspended material during the first step. However I did not get the compact cake until I was in step 2
 
So I had to get creative with my temperature control of my starters to get it up to 72F+. I'm using a 5 gal bucket with water, some bricks, an aquarium heater and a stir plate. It's not pretty, but it's working.
 
I think the raising the temp and shaking worked! It looks like I have more of the creamy white yeast layer. And when I swirl now I get some foaming. So it looks like the picture on your site, Veganbrewer.

So how important is temperature control for all the steps after the first? I can maintain at least 68F without any extra effort.
 
To get my starter warmer, I placed it above my fridge. That automatically raises the temp at least a few degrees and held it around 73-75F
 
I think the raising the temp and shaking worked! It looks like I have more of the creamy white yeast layer. And when I swirl now I get some foaming. So it looks like the picture on your site, Veganbrewer.

So how important is temperature control for all the steps after the first? I can maintain at least 68F without any extra effort.

I've found that only the first step needs temp regulation. You should be good from here on out.
 
I'm going to need to chill and decant for my last step. How long should I leave it in the fridge to crash out? 24 hrs? Are 48 hours better? I am in no rush, so whatever is fine.
 
I would say it depends on performance. I use a 2L flask and have had to decant a couple of times away. When I leave it without shaking for a few hours, mine has been flocking out well. My last step is pretty much done. I plan on popping it in the fridge tonight and just decanting at some point tomorrow. The overall volume is small compared to a batch of beer so it shouldn't take too long
 
Vegan

I tend to agree with you speculation that this may be a Belgian or hybrid Belgian strain.

The clove is still there but has backed off some. I have been oxygenating at every step and growing at 70-72f ambient temp. Last night, I took a whiff of my final step and got a steady amount of banana and bubble gum in the aroma to go along with the clove.

And the aroma of fruit is creeping back in as well.

I don't intend to brew a HT clone with this first round. I'm cheap and this is my first shot at harvesting yeast from dregs. I would hate to burn the amount of hops that I would need for HT on a yeast I have no experience with. I have an IPA that gets a regular spot in my brewing rotation. I am thinking about brewing that the first time with this Conan harvest, so I will at least know what differences are coming from the yeast.

But with the aromas I am getting, I'm thinking this yeast would make a great Belgian pale. I'm still scratching my head though as to how the Alchemist gets such a clean profile with HT. do you know what temp they ferment this beer?
 
I would say it depends on performance. I use a 2L flask and have had to decant a couple of times away. When I leave it without shaking for a few hours, mine has been flocking out well. My last step is pretty much done. I plan on popping it in the fridge tonight and just decanting at some point tomorrow. The overall volume is small compared to a batch of beer so it shouldn't take too long
Thanks. I'll probably let it go 2 days anyway because I will start my 3rd step today so it will be on the stirplate 48 hours by Friday, so I'll probably just stick in the fridge, decant on Sunday and start the last step then.
 
This thread has all that info.

Except it says: So there isn't much of a consensus.

That about sums it up haha! My idea is that they ferment at 68 then allow to rise to 71-72 then they drop it down to 58 for aging and dry hop.

This numbers best fit in with common brewing practices and hop temps of known skilled hoppers across the country.
 
Sorry for the constant flood of pictures, but I'm excited for my first ever harvest from a bottle (can) and especially considering what yeast it is.

Here is right when I started the 3rd step. The one on the left was just aerated, that's why it's foamier. You can't see my awesome homemade stir plates from computer fans and hard drive magnets but they are under the container I used to contain any explosion (which I didn't need thankfully). I was surprised they still stirred under the plastic container, but it worked great. And don't laugh at the 1960's card table :)

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Here is 24 hours later after the krausen came up and then started going down. Tonight it will be 48 hours since I started this step so I will chill for 1-2 days before decanting and going on to the last step in ~1800 ml starters to get to about 330 billion cells in each.

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The plan after the last step is to split up the harvest into 6 pint canning jars with about 110 billion cells in each. I've been in contact with my home brew club and I plan to give away 4 of them and keep 2 for myself. If there is more demand than 4 people, hopefully those 4 people can grow up some more yeast so we can start a "yeast giving tree" so that more people can get it.
 
That looks fantastic! I'm going to be doing the same sort of harvesting on the remaining HT cans that I have. I'll update with pics once I get the ball rolling.

Excellent thread by the way, it's full of great information.
 
Be sure to use nice aromatic hops with fruity characters or this yeast won't shine its true colors. It's amazing how much flavor it adds. If you have an ipa recipe that you brew that you like, use that with this Conan strain and you'll note a big difference in flavor. Throw some simcoe in there for nice fruity flavor.
 
660 billion cells of Conan! I only got 2 responses from my home brew club when I offered up one of the jars for free. I'm shocked. Oh well. More for me :)

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I've been making a "Simconan" pale ale to great results. They pair perfectly
 
I successfully cultured from one can. Going from 15% of the can into 200ml of 1.030 wort with nutrients on a stirplate with pure O2 for 60 seconds. Fed another 300ml of 1.030 wort with nutrients two days later. Had stir plate with box over it and heating pad next to flask keeping air temp inside box at 78F.

My flask actually has a krausen and a huge yeast ring on the bottom after taken off stir plate.

Smells of peaches, pineapple and other fruits (mostly tropical). Lovely! Considering making a 1 gallon batch Just to try it out.
 
Ok. So here's what I wound up with. A pretty even split for my brew buddy and me. The pint jars have what I estimate to be 51 ml (poured water to the level of the yeast, then into a known accurate measuring cup.

Unless somebody here has an empty WL vial that can help me figure out how much that is, I will have to wait until I buy yeast for my next batch.

Now comes the tough part, estimating cell count. I have heard anything from 1 to 4 billion cells per ml. I'm just looking for a number that I can plug into a yeast calculator with my harvest date in order to determine viable cells and starter steps.

I'm inclined to just split the difference and use 2 billion. That would make one of those pint jars the approximate equivalent of 2 WL vials. This seems consistent with what I was estimating when I started growing. I'll have to go back a few posts, but I think I was going with an assumption of 2 billion cells in the can dregs.

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let me ask those who have harvested a question...I am in the middle of my harvesting and I'm trying to calculate the yeast growth. Here is what I did and I'm just trying to determine how to input it/interrupt it:

Day 1: took 100ml of Heady + 150ml of 1.037 starter, let that go for 3 days, shaking method(stir plate was in use)
Day 3: made another starter/step of 750ml of wort and cooled/added that to the initial step of 250...

I have gone farther but here is my question, when entering in yeastcalc. I started with the estimate of 1.5 billions cells(I used 1 can). Is my first step 150 or 250ml starter? And would step 2 be 750 or 1000ml? The total starter volume would be 250 & 1000ml respectively but I want to make sure that my assumption of adding them together to create a whole starter size in yeast calc correct? Not sure the starter size made with DME each step?

Hope that make sense. I'm brewing up a Heady clone Friday and I'm just trying to nail down my step ups between now and then and where my estimated yeast count is.

Thanks
 
First step is 150 ml. You don't count the beer because there are no fermentables left in the beer to grow the yeast.

Same logic for the next step. Use 750 ml.
 
First step is 150 ml. You don't count the beer because there are no fermentables left in the beer to grow the yeast.

Same logic for the next step. Use 750 ml.

Wouldn't step 2 then be 900? 150 from step 1 + 750 from step 2? I didn't doing any decanting the first few steps.
 
Nope, because you are assuming you are fermenting all the fermentable sugars from the first 150 ml step. So the yeast only has the 750 ml of the new wort to ferment.
 
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