Can't I just use a grain bag in a cooler?

I was thinking about moving to all grain brewing.

After seeing a bunch of how-to's about converting a drink cooler to a mash-tun, I was wondering...

Can't you just dump all your grain into a grain bag, put it in a cooler, add hot water to mash it, drain the wort, then sparge the grains after? It seems like it would make cleanup a heckuva lot easier...

Thoughts?


C

You might look into "brew in a bag", or BIAB which is growing in popularity. It is basically what you described.

I've done it for small batches in an unodifed 2 - gallon cooler with a folding steamer in the bottom to elevate the grain bag above the spigot like a false bottom...and that's fine for 4 pounds of grain...but honestly it isn't all that hard to modify a cooler for a mashtun (nor is it that expensive) and it's so simple to mash in them after.

So yeah, I'm sure you could use a grain bag in a cooler...but it wont be as easy as just opening a spigot on mash day, and have it flow through pretty nicely filtered of large grain particles through your braid or false baottom.

That's basically what I do. Are you going to be using a drink cooler for your mashes or rectangular one. Will the grain bag restrict the grain bed formation, i.e. the grain bag is too small for the cooler? Remember that you need a solid grain bed to form and you want the grain to be packed in, but not packed in enough that the liquid can't circulate between. I (re-)use a 5G nylon paint straining bag (per suggestion from this site) that I bought at Lowe's. It holds 6# well enough. I'm sure that you're aware of that if you're all grain. Also, without a false bottom, you won't be able to completely drain the liquid, not really a big deal though. Make sure you have a spigot attachment on the cooler, it will drain fine. I bought a $10 modification kit that came with a spigot for the outside and an adapter for the inside the had a tube attached and ran into the center of my 5G Rubbermaid drinking cooler/mash tun.

I would also recommend that once you drain your mash that you drain it into a brew pot, reheat it to 170-175 and use your drained mash liquid as your first sparge, otherwise, it's difficult to get efficiency needed for successful all grain batch without sparging with too much water.

i would be concerned about the bag creating a gap at the corners or around the edge of the grain that would give the water an alternative path to drain. if the water doesn't have to go through the denser packed middle of the grain bed it wont. this will greatly affect your brewing efficiency because not all the grain is getting an even amount of water flow through your mash tun.

TipsyDragon said:

i would be concerned about the bag creating a gap at the corners or around the edge of the grain that would give the water an alternative path to drain. if the water doesn't have to go through the denser packed middle of the grain bed it wont. this will greatly affect your brewing efficiency because not all the grain is getting an even amount of water flow through your mash tun.

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Unless you batch sparge....

Coastarine said:

You might look into "brew in a bag", or BIAB which is growing in popularity. It is basically what you described.

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Depending on you definition of BIAB. "Aussie" style BIAB is a grain bag in the boil kettle, no need for a cooler at all.

TipsyDragon said:

i would be concerned about the bag creating a gap at the corners or around the edge of the grain that would give the water an alternative path to drain. if the water doesn't have to go through the denser packed middle of the grain bed it wont. this will greatly affect your brewing efficiency because not all the grain is getting an even amount of water flow through your mash tun.

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Correct, that's why you need to make sure that your grain bag would be excessively large so that it allows the grain bed to form to the cooler dimensions and not the other way around (the bag forms the grain bed). I put my 5G bag in the tun and when the grain is in the bag, the bag is not restrictive and expands to touch all of the sides and bottom of the tun.

I brew 3G batches, partial mash typically. I mash at 1.75quarts/lb of grain for 1 hour. For me, that's 4.5 lbs. in 8 quarts. After the mash, I quickly drain the liquid into a brew pot, heat the liquid to 175 and pour it over the grain bed to start the sparge. After this has flowed through, I heat 1.75G of fresh water to 175 and pour it over the grain bed and collect. Once all is collected, I start the boil. I've been getting around 25 points per pound, nothing to brag about, but it's so simple and easy, and I like that.

Revvy said:

...but honestly it isn't all that hard to modify a cooler for a mashtun (nor is it that expensive) and it's so simple to mash in them after.

So yeah, I'm sure you could use a grain bag in a cooler...but it wont be as easy as just opening a spigot on mash day, and have it flow through pretty nicely filtered of large grain particles through your braid or false baottom.

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I did one BIAB with a cooler. Then I converted it. Wasn't hard or expensive.

With BIAB, I got a stuck sparge immediately. I had to lift up the bag and kind of "set" it on the mash to un-stick

GinAndCoffee said:

I was thinking about moving to all grain brewing.

After seeing a bunch of how-to's about converting a drink cooler to a mash-tun, I was wondering...

Can't you just dump all your grain into a grain bag, put it in a cooler, add hot water to mash it, drain the wort, then sparge the grains after? It seems like it would make cleanup a heckuva lot easier...

Thoughts?


C

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It's dead easy to convert a cooler and in the long run you'll be happy you did. If I can do it, _anyone_ can do it! See dennybrew.com for details.

I've done 20+ batches that way. It works well and it's cheap and simple. I do have a ball valve on the cooler, but no manifold/false bottom. My last few batches are at about 82%.

Denny said:

It's dead easy to convert a cooler and in the long run you'll be happy you did. If I can do it, _anyone_ can do it! See dennybrew.com for details.

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Are you the Denny from dennybrew.com?

If you are:

I found that page when I was researching all-grain, and found it to be very helpful, and in simple terms...I like the "cheap and easy" approach.


Edit: I just clicked on your homepage link on your profile; you are indeed "The Denny", kudos to you sir!

Thanks all for the replies.

I'm just now getting to understand all-grain brewing. I really like when I can break seemingly complex processes with a lot of jargon (sparge, mash-tun, lauter-tun) into their basic components (i.e. "extract sugars from grain by placing in hot water for an hour").

By doing a "bare bones" sort of deal with a cooler and a grain bag, I can witness firsthand the problems (if there are any) of the process, then assess firsthand what sorts hardware I should install to make the process go smoother.

I was using my 5 gallon drinking cooler with a 5g paint strainer beg with c clamps to keep the bag open, then i would mash in, remove the clamps, and replace the lid, then wait my desired conversion time, sparge and boil. It worked like a champ until I put together the ball valve with braided hose in. The brew in a bag works well.

here is mine:


It actually can be used without the bag, but I find it much easier to clean with the bag:

Yup I do all grain with an unmodified 5 gal cooler and 1 5-gal paint strainer bag. You don't need any ball valves or false bottoms or any of that stuff. The bag can be bought at Lowes/HomeDepot in the paint section for $2.

Put the bag in the cooler, pour 10lb grain into the bag, heat 13 qt water to 169F, pour in, stir until you get the desired temp (155-150F, stir longer for cooler temp), mash for an hour (stir every 20 min), lift bag out, dump the wort out into your kettle, put bag & wet grain back into cooler, add 12 qt 174F water, stir and drain into kettle 10 min later.

This is the easiest way to do all grain that I know of, and its how I have done my last 10 batches or so. Efficiency is in the high 80's most times, but make sure to tell your shop to crush your grain pretty fine.

Sweet... so why aren't we telling new home brewers how easy it is to brew with just a cooler and a grain bag?

GinAndCoffee said:

Sweet... so why aren't we telling new home brewers how easy it is to brew with just a cooler and a grain bag?

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I honestly have no idea and it pisses me the f*ck off!

I so often see someone say that they want to go from partial mashing to all grain and some brewer will start telling them how they need to build their water profile and get a fly sparge arm and show them a stupid brew sculpture bah bah freakin' blah! That's such BS! Sure, you can do all that to really get 100% control over your process, but for most folks, a cooler/bag setup is a cheap and very effective way to get into all grain.

I've shown 2 friends how to brew with the cooler/bag method and they love it. One friend has never even brewed w/ extract at all, she started right with all grain with this method! And she just started drinking a summer wheat ale she made that to me, is slightly BETTER than Sam Adam's Summer Wheat.

ghpeel said:

I honestly have no idea and it pisses me the f*ck off!

I so often see someone say that they want to go from partial mashing to all grain and some brewer will start telling them how they need to build their water profile and get a fly sparge arm and show them a stupid brew sculpture bah bah freakin' blah! That's such BS! Sure, you can do all that to really get 100% control over your process, but for most folks, a cooler/bag setup is a cheap and very effective way to get into all grain.

I've shown 2 friends how to brew with the cooler/bag method and they love it. One friend has never even brewed w/ extract at all, she started right with all grain with this method! And she just started drinking a summer wheat ale she made that to me, is slightly BETTER than Sam Adam's Summer Wheat.

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+!, I have brewed about 15 extract batches so far. Every time I thought about going AG, I would read about all the eqipment needed & I would just brew another extract batch. Well; after reading about BIAB, cooler/bag, & Deathbrewers stove top methods; my next batch is going to be AG. I already bought the paint bags from HD

kinison_fan said:

Are you the Denny from dennybrew.com?

If you are:

I found that page when I was researching all-grain, and found it to be very helpful, and in simple terms...I like the "cheap and easy" approach.


Edit: I just clicked on your homepage link on your profile; you are indeed "The Denny", kudos to you sir!

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Guilty as charged! Thanks, glad to be able to help.

Alright, new campaign guys...

"You Don't Need Fancy Hardware for All Grain Brewing"

GinAndCoffee said:

Alright, new campaign guys...

"You Don't Need Fancy Hardware for All Grain Brewing"

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I've been saying that for years. There's nothing fancy about a cooler and a toilet hose!

I have done 20+ batches this way. Batch sparging. I do about 1.25-1.5 qt/lb in the cooler. Pull out the bag, tie it to a piece of pipe I hang outside, let it drip. Split my sparge water into 2 batches, dunk the bag, mix it and let it sit 10 minutes, repeat for second batch. I get 70% with the midwest crush, I'd probably do much better crushing my own. Cheap, super easy and I see absolutely no advantage to a manifold.

I christen us "The Unmodified Cooler Brew Club".

Or, "The Tea Baggers" if you prefer.

I am joining the teabaggers, I was going to mash in a cooler then lauter in a pail with holes in the bottom.

Actually, I'm one level down from you fancy-pants out there with a bag for your cooler...I just use a thin curtain that I never got around to sewing into a bag. Line the cooler with it, dump in the grain and water, and make sure the curtain pokes out the edges when I close the lid. When it's time to drain, I lift up the curtain a bit, open the drain (no ball valve yet) and tip the cooler a bit to let it drain.

I did my last 5 gallon batch like this (the last couple have been one gallon each), and while I didn't check my efficiency (because I wasn't measuring my volumes) I can tell you that the beer has turned out damn fine...one of my best batches yet.

Teabaggers unite!

I just did a 2.5 gallon batch on my stove and it was GREAT!!!

Now I'm going to have to make a new how-to thread: "Teabagging (With Photos)"

Saint Aardvark said:

Line the cooler with it, dump in the grain and water, and make sure the curtain pokes out the edges when I close the lid.

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Yeah cool! I am thinking of trying something similiar too, where I mash in my cooler, not in a bag, and dump the mash through the bag into the kettle after 60 min.

I mash in my bottling bucket with the grain in a mesh bag. Temp holds very when the bucket is wrapped or covered in heavy blankets. My latest batch got a 76% efficiency but I didrequest an extra fine crush

My name is northernlad and I am a Tea-Bagger.
Today I completed my first AG batch with an unmodified cooler and, at least into the primary, had great success.
I read and read before I did my very first batch, made through 8 or 9 extract kits, then read and read some more about going AG. While it may be low tech and simple. It seems to have worked and I am stoked to be able to do simple beers with no extra money spent on equipment. For now...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/

i get what you all are saying, but have you seen the above link? it cost me a little less than $90 to make the whole thing happen. very durable, long lasting, and i can fill the cooler all the way to the top with grain. just over 20#...

i understand the grain bag, i had thought about it for my first batch like 6 months ago, but i am very glad i just got the build done and mix everything up right in the cooler and get it done...

I thought about the grain bag method, but I had two large rectangular coolers, one with a broken drain anyway, so it was less than $30 in parts to convert that.

If you grain bag it, I guess you don't vorlouf. When you vorlouf, you can get only clear, filtered wort into the brew kettle. Seems like it helps quality(taste), and isn't that why we brew?

RichBenn said:

I thought about the grain bag method, but I had two large rectangular coolers, one with a broken drain anyway, so it was less than $30 in parts to convert that.

If you grain bag it, I guess you don't vorlouf. When you vorlouf, you can get only clear, filtered wort into the brew kettle. Seems like it helps quality(taste), and isn't that why we brew?

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and why can't you vorlouf? I don't see any problem catching 2 quarts of wort and putting it back into the cooler...

If you all haven't seen these threads, then you really should check them out.


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

GinAndCoffee said:

and why can't you vorlouf? I don't see any problem catching 2 quarts of wort and putting it back into the cooler...

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I guess some people have put a valve on and regulate flow that way, now that I've read through the whole thread. But the original poster was just lifting it up, draining everything, then soaking in water again. Milky wort.

My point was, it doesn't cost much for a valve and a stainless screen. But I suppose the bag can be the screen too.

I've found the valve helps a lot in getting clear beer, however. If you open it too wide too fast, you lose the filtering quality of the grain.

I don't need to vorlouf with my bag system. I've done it before when I used a standard grain bag that wasn't fine enough to catch all the particles. But with a paint strainer, the bag is fine enough to completely catch all husk material and crap that might get into your kettle.

Sometimes, I'll drain from my unmodified cooler mashtun using the spigot on the thing. If so, you'll basically set up a grain bed inside the bag without having to do anything yourself. However, I am unconvinced that this does anything better than just lifting the bag & grain out and dumping that liquid into kettle.

Remember, the only reason any ever vorloufed back in the day was because that was the only way to strain off the wort from the spent grain. They didn't have flexible heat-resistant bag with elastic tops like we do now. Also, big commercial operations can't get bags big enough for this work, so they use manifolds and such out of necessity.

ADDED BONUS: absolutely NO chance of a stuck sparge. None. Not gonna happen. Ever. Even with 60 oz of canned pumpkin in the mash. Seen it wit me own two eyes.

Caveats:

(1) The Tea Bagging method will work only for so much grain. If you start getting above 13lbs or so, the bag prob won't hold. (work around: throw 1-2 lbs of extract in to get up to that IIPA or RIS gravity)

(2) I haven't seen paint strainers larger than 5 gal, so you need to stick with a 5 gal mash tun. Given 80-90 efficiency seen w/ this setup, its not as bad as some might think. The Australian dudes use custom-made chiffon (I think) bags that can be sewn as large as needed though, but you have to get it custom made.

(3) This option is NOT for anyone who's already got a "traditional" mash tun set up. We're not trying to convert you, we're just trying to get extract and partial-mashers to realize that you can go all-grain a lot simpler than they've been told in the past. However, if you're sick of stuck sparges and your spouse is tired of 3-tier brewing sculptures taking up your garage, then you might want to look into this

i was actually thinking about this the other day. i'm glad someone else has brought it up. sounds like a real easy way to get started! i'm not going to lie, the extra equipment necessary to go AG really kept me from upgrading for a while. specifically in my case tho, it was the turkey fryer and propane tank and brewpot that i didn't want to have to buy. but thats another story

i can only really see one problem with this style, and that's if your grain bag rips while it's in the cooler, your day suddenly becomes more complex. a good way to combat that is either use a paint strainer or two grain bags. :rockin:

eggbeater59 said:

i can only really see one problem with this style, and that's if your grain bag rips while it's in the cooler, your day suddenly becomes more complex. a good way to combat that is either use a paint strainer or two grain bags. :rockin:

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I have used the Large Coarse Bag sold by Austin Homebrew with up to 13 lbs of grain. I use a cooler with a ball valve but no manifold and just lift the bag enough to let it drain well. It works very well. I wouldn't want to do a 10 gallon brew this way (or even a 5 gallon barleywine) - You'd need either two bags or one strong bag and a pulley.

Edit. I do agree that if the bag broke it would mess up the brew day in a big way.

You Teabaggers are more in touch with our ancient ancestral brewers than you realize!
The Egyptians seem to have mashed by soaking bread in warm water, then smooshing the water out in a basket over an earthen pot.
The paint strainer is analogous to the basket and the cooler to the earthen pot.