doppelsticke recipe

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captaineriv

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I just had Uerige Doppelsticke (strong altbier 8.5% ABV) for the first time tonight and I must say that it is one of the best beers I've had in a while. I am here hoping that someone knows where to find a clone for this particular brew or at least one for another altbier of similar gravity. Also, I have noticed that most of the regular altbier recipes I've come across call for a rest at around 122 degrees. Are the Munich malts and Pilsen malts used in this style less modified than the 2-row malt used in English and American ales, thus requiring this step, or are the recipes recommending a step that really isn't all that important? It is rare that I come across an English ale that that calls for anything more than a single infusion mash, but all these altbiers seem to want more. Any insight or recipes for this brew would be awesome.


captaineriv


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captaineriv said:
I just had Uerige Doppelsticke (strong altbier 8.5% ABV) for the first time tonight and I must say that it is one of the best beers I've had in a while. I am here hoping that someone knows where to find a clone for this particular brew or at least one for another altbier of similar gravity. Also, I have noticed that most of the regular altbier recipes I've come across call for a rest at around 122 degrees. Are the Munich malts and Pilsen malts used in this style less modified than the 2-row malt used in English and American ales, thus requiring this step, or are the recipes recommending a step that really isn't all that important? It is rare that I come across an English ale that that calls for anything more than a single infusion mash, but all these altbiers seem to want more. Any insight or recipes for this brew would be awesome.​
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Where did you find this Altbier? I'm looking to find good Altbier examples in NC.

Regarding the protein rest mentioned in the Altbier recipe. Many German mashes are step mashes and may contain a protein rest and usually even 2 saccrification rests. With the modern well modified malts (even the German malts), the necessity/benefit of the protein rest becomes debatable. Many German home brewers still do this rest (as most of them can apply heat to their mash kettles) but keep it short. To long of a protein rest will cut into the head retention.

If you want to do this rest, do it. But I assume that you will also be fine by doing a single infusion for the Alt.

Kai​
 
wish i could help you. a week or so ago i posted looking for a sticke recipe but found nothing. i'm going to try to make one up though, for a doppelsticke i imagine youd just bump everything up a bit. i'll let you know when i come up with it.
 
King Kai, you're in luck. I got the brew from Brawley's Beverage in Charlotte, NC. Awesome selection in hard-to-find beers because the owners pretty much made that their mission. If you go, make sure you go on a day that Michael is working. He's very knowledgable and can help out a lot. Thank you both for the mash info and thank you drengel for offering your findings. I use the plastic picnic cooler method for my mash tun so adding direct heat would be impossible. I'll probably just do a single infusion and if everything turns out fine, keep doing it that way. Otherwise, I'll try a multistep infusion (never any experience with that, but gotta start sometime).

captaineriv
 
captaineriv said:
King Kai, you're in luck. I got the brew from Brawley's Beverage in Charlotte, NC. Awesome selection in hard-to-find beers because the owners pretty much made that their mission.
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To bad that I didn't know this before I had to make a trip to Charlotte 2 weeks ago. Charlotte is about 3hrs from where I live, so a casual beer-run is not really something I want to do.

I use the plastic picnic cooler method for my mash tun so adding direct heat would be impossible. I'll probably just do a single infusion and if everything turns out fine, keep doing it that way. Otherwise, I'll try a multistep infusion (never any experience with that, but gotta start sometime).
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You can do decoctions to run step mashes in a cooler. I didn't find anything on their web-site (here is the Uerige brewing process for dummies http://www.uerige.de/en/bier/brauen.html), but I wouldn't be surprised if they use decoction for their mashes.

Kai
 
Thanks. I'll look into decoction mashing if it makes better beer. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of German lagers use decoctions, but that they're also relatively difficult. I suppose a strong altbier is essentially the ale version of a doppelbock. Sorry about the beer run (or lack thereof). Charlotte is about 90 minutes from me so I don't mind running back and forth on occasion. There's legislation on the table in SC to raise the 6% limit, but like everything else, it'll probably be a while before it actually happens, but hopefully it will eventually.

captaineriv
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captaineriv said:
Thanks. I'll look into decoction mashing if it makes better beer. I remember reading somewhere that a lot of German lagers use decoctions, but that they're also relatively difficult. I suppose a strong altbier is essentially the ale version of a doppelbock. Sorry about the beer run (or lack thereof). Charlotte is about 90 minutes from me so I don't mind running back and forth on occasion. There's legislation on the table in SC to raise the 6% limit, but like everything else, it'll probably be a while before it actually happens, but hopefully it will eventually.​
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I wouldn't say that decoction makes better beer. It can give the beer a special character that is desired in some styles (especially bavarian) and not desired in other styles. The main difference in Stickes and Doppelbocks seems to be the bitterness (doppelbock is usually in the lower 20's and has lot's of resuial sweetness). There is also no hop aroma or flavor in dopple bocks. Stickes, though dark and strong in ABV like Doppelbocks, seem to emphazise the hops more than the malt.

If you want to give decoction a try, go for it. But I'm not sure if it will make a difference for this style of beer. And I also recommend to take a gravity reading of a sample of the Sticke you had. This way you can determine the FG and with the ABV you should be able to get the OG of the beer. The IBU's you may have to estimate.

I just checked a German board for info about Das Uerige:

- they seem to use an infusion mash (no decoction here)
- they use Weyerman Pilsner, dark Carmel and Roasted (Carafa) malt (no Munic is mentioned)
- Hallertauer aroma hop

This information comes from a faily reputable meber of the board, but may not be complete though.

And again, I never tasted Uerige beer and are just gathering some information for you that may help you get closer to the taste that you want.

Kai

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King Kai, sorry for the late reply. I just got back from out of town. Thanks a lot for the info you got from the German board. That helps narrow things down a lot. Also good to know that an infusion mash will be fine on this one. Next beer run I make to NC, I'll pick up some more of this brew and take a FG reading. If you attempt it before I do, let me know how it turns out, and definitely try the real thing next chance you get. It ranks very high on my favorites list.

captaineriv
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captaineriv said:
If you attempt it before I do, let me know how it turns out, and definitely try the real thing next chance you get. It ranks very high on my favorites list.
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I'd certainly love to try some Sticke, But I'm not sure if I will like 50+ IBUs. I'm a weenie when it comes to bitterness. But then again, one of the arts of brewing a high IBU beer is to make this bitterness smooth and hide it. The same rule applies to alcohol in high gravity beers -> If you can smell it or taste it, you did something wrong.

Kai


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Give it a shot. With all of the malt sweetness and thickness of this beer, I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near 50 IBU's. Even if it was, I barely tasted any hops at all in this one. Hence, it was definitely hidden well.

captaineriv
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captaineriv said:
I just had Uerige Doppelsticke (strong altbier 8.5% ABV) for the first time tonight ... I am here hoping that someone knows where to find a clone...​
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I had this filed away. Hope it's at least a start!​
 
Thanks for the info. Definitely looks like it could do the trick. It was mentioned earlier that you could probably replicate the doppelsticke by adding a little more of everything. I've never tried their regular sticke beer but I imagine it is equally delightful. And definitely let us know how it turns out, jeffg

captaineriv
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thanks for the link Roobarb. I was quite interesting for me as well.

One thing to note about german fermenting practice in open fermenters, the brown gunkt that collects on the top of the Kraeusen is skimmed off. This creates a smoother bitterness.

Kai
 
I kegged my Alt a couple days ago after 2 months in the secondary at 55 degrees. I have never done an Alt before and it is just outstanding. The spalt hops have the perfect bitterness to offset the malt, kind of spicey but not heavy like the US northwest hops i normally like. Late addition saaz are really subtle but there, and the cool fermentation in the primary has kept the german ale yeast overtones very subtle. I believe i now have all of the base information to finally clone Long Trail Double Bag, which is a double Alt.

I love it when a new beer comes together!
 
Rhoobarb said:
I had this filed away. Hope it's at least a start![/LEFT]
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This article seems to be gone from BYO now. Could someone post the recipe please? I am wanting to make a doppelsticke altbier, and it sounds like you found a good one!
 

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