Fellow homebrewers, meet my new beer engine . . .

If ya'll remember, I have been slowly working on building a beer engine from the direction of the two BYO articles. Well, I've finally done it . . . and I am drinking my first "real ale" from it as we speak. I did some revisions to the BYO approach . . . here is a pic. I'll describe more if anyone is interested.

edited - sorry . . had some trouble posting the pic in a reasonable size.

sonvolt said:

. here is a pic. I'll describe more if anyone is interested.

Click to expand...

Describe away!!! Lookin good

Yes, a description please. And take an action shot so we know it works.

An action shot . . . coming right up! But I will have to get the wife's assistance . . .

sonvolt said:

An action shot . . . coming right up! But I will have to get the wife's assistance . . .

Click to expand...

He said action shot, not money shot. :fro:

Cheesefood said:

He said action shot, not money shot. :fro:

Click to expand...

Once again, I read your post, then look at your avatar and have happy thoughts

that thing looks cool...!!! can you post some pics of the inside and everything...??

Here are some action shots . . . we didn't take pics of the money shot .





I am pouring an English Brown Ale in the pic. Tasted pretty good, but the beer is cloudy at the bottom of the keg since it is truly cask-conditioned. It is getting clearer with each pour. The ice in the cooler gets the beer down to about 45-50 degrees, just what a cask conditioned ale should be served at.

I am going to drink on this tonight. I will post some pics of the inside and some description of how to make it, etc. later.

That is totally kick ass man!!!! Great job!

So how are you serving? Is it being pulled with CO2 or the pump only?

The pump is the only thing that I am using to serve the beer. I am a little worried about how the beer will age after tonight. Me and two buddies drank about half of it. So, I am going to throw a little bit of CO2 into the keg and purge it of oxygen. No matter what, though, the beer will be different when I drink it next. It will be interesting to see how the oxidation affects the product - but this is what real ale is all about.

Too buzzed tonight to describe how I built it or get any pics of the inside, etc. So I will update tomorrow. Basically, I just coiled up a bunch of beer line inside the cooler and used some brass fittings/barbs/couplers on each side of the cooler wall to get the beer from the keg and through the pump. I filled the cooler with ice, but there is only 10 feet of line inside the cooler - just enough to get the temp of the ale down to about 45 degrees. I am going to make a sparkler for the tip of the faucet itself, but after seeing the head that I get just from the hand pump itself, I am not sure I need it.

I am very pleased with its performance tonight, and my buddies got a huge kick out of it.

sonvolt said:

I am a little worried about how the beer will age after tonight. Me and two buddies drank about half of it. So, I am going to throw a little bit of CO2 into the keg and purge it of oxygen.

Click to expand...

I've thought of hooking up keg filled with CO2 unpressurized to the inlet of the beer keg. This way the CO2 can be drawn out of the keg only as beer is pumped.

sonvolt said:

Basically, I just coiled up a bunch of beer line inside the cooler and used some brass fittings/barbs/couplers on each side of the cooler wall to get the beer from the keg and through the pump. I filled the cooler with ice, but there is only 10 feet of line inside the cooler - just enough to get the temp of the ale down to about 45 degrees.

Click to expand...

Great job. I never thought of putting mine on an ice chest. I just made a box with left-over wood and coiled 10' of 1/4" copper line inside it. I still haven't needed a sparkler. I do like that idea.

Wild

I'm thinking for a future build here... My kegerator will be finished in a week or so when all of the rest of the parts come in (I'm waiting on the taps and shanks), but does it sound reasonable to instead of building one out of an ice chest, to use the existing fridge and freezer? My keger has one large single door with the freezer inside and on top. Couldn't I keep the keg outside of the fridge, run the beer line in to the freezer to a coil and mount the tap/engine to the door or side of the fridge? Then I could have four kegs inside cold, and a real ale on tap as well. Sound plausable to anyone else? I already have the 5 kegs...

real ale? please digress or post a link please - I am all about learning tradition, ht eway it used to be - the way it ought to be and then sh*tting all over it. rock on
I've heard of cask conditioned hand pump etc is that what this is? a beer line chiller with a hand pump?

I like it. I've got a little cooler that is too small for much else, but would probably work.

Brewsmith said:

I'm thinking for a future build here... My kegerator will be finished in a week or so when all of the rest of the parts come in (I'm waiting on the taps and shanks), but does it sound reasonable to instead of building one out of an ice chest, to use the existing fridge and freezer? My keger has one large single door with the freezer inside and on top. Couldn't I keep the keg outside of the fridge, run the beer line in to the freezer to a coil and mount the tap/engine to the door or side of the fridge? Then I could have four kegs inside cold, and a real ale on tap as well. Sound plausable to anyone else? I already have the 5 kegs...

Click to expand...

This would work . . . so long as you had a place to mount the pump, since it needs a flat surface. You would have to put it on top of the fridge, right? As for the keg of real ale sitting alongside the fridge, be careful in terms of the environment it is in. If you gear is in your garage, say, your real ale would experience some pretty dramatic shifts in temperature, etc. While a truly hard-core real ale enthusiast might say that the changes due to this are all a part of the real ale experience, I think that your keg will last longer than the traditional cask from which real ale is served in England. You would probably have some pretty nasty beer after a while.

If you kegerator is sitting in a consistently cool place; however, you should be ok.

NEPABREWER said:

real ale? please digress or post a link please - I am all about learning tradition, ht eway it used to be - the way it ought to be and then sh*tting all over it. rock on
I've heard of cask conditioned hand pump etc is that what this is? a beer line chiller with a hand pump?

Click to expand...

For information about real ale, visit the website of an organization called CAMRA. They are a consumer advocate group in England who are concerned with the survival of real ale (cask conditioned ale). Basically, real ale is any ale that is still "alive." When your ale naturally conditioned and unfiltered, it is technically "real ale." Most homebrewers who bottle are making "real ale," but the term is mostly reserved for cask conditioned ale which is served from a firken (cask) with a traditional beer engine (hand pump) without the aid of CO2. The casks are allowed to vent air, so the beer oxidizes over the course of the few days it is on tap. True real ale lovers enjoy the oxidation and can tell with just a taste how many days the ale has been open.

Cask conditioned ale is traditionally served around 50-55 degrees (I think), but most Americans prefer it a bit cooler. If you find a brewpub offering a true cask conditioned ale, try it. When pumped from a beer engine, the head is thick and creamy and smooth - the beer is rich and creamy with very little CO2. IMO, it is a truly magical experience.

Their is a local rest that occasionally offers cask conditioned ale "on the hand pump", but I find it hard to beleive that they would be strict purists. The beer on tap was Victory Brewing Co "Hop Devil" and it was quite fine, but I think it must be in a cooler or something, because around here if beer is not <40 deg its B A D

NEPABREWER said:

Their is a local rest that occasionally offers cask conditioned ale "on the hand pump", but I find it hard to beleive that they would be strict purists. The beer on tap was Victory Brewing Co "Hop Devil" and it was quite fine, but I think it must be in a cooler or something, because around here if beer is not <40 deg its B A D

Click to expand...

Yeah, most of the places I have been serve it very cold, because Americans want beverages cold. This is unfortunate, because the extreme coldness often confuses the palate to the degree that the complexities of flavor are often lost. The brewpub near me (Rhodell's in Peoria) serves it warmer than the other brews, but still colder than he would if serving in Scotland (where the brewer is from). The added benefit of this colder serving temp is that the beer is preserved longer than if kept at room or cellar temps.

sonvolt said:

This would work . . . so long as you had a place to mount the pump, since it needs a flat surface. You would have to put it on top of the fridge, right? As for the keg of real ale sitting alongside the fridge, be careful in terms of the environment it is in. If you gear is in your garage, say, your real ale would experience some pretty dramatic shifts in temperature, etc. While a truly hard-core real ale enthusiast might say that the changes due to this are all a part of the real ale experience, I think that your keg will last longer than the traditional cask from which real ale is served in England. You would probably have some pretty nasty beer after a while.

If you kegerator is sitting in a consistently cool place; however, you should be ok.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of mounting a bracket to the side of the fridge so the beer engine could be mounted on a surface. And the temp in the garage isn't really that bad. I'm just ouside of Los Angeles and get the ocean breeze constantly (nobody search for the thread where I said I hate LA please ). I need to insulate and better temp regulate the brewery anyways, but for right now it works ok. Right now I'm just thinking hypothetically. I need to get the kegerator up and running before I attempt anything else. Plus, if I find that the keg doesn't last I can 1. make a smaller batch. 2. Get a smaller keg. or 3. I can just drink more .

This is brilliant! I would love to see the insides of this.

I'll take some pics of the insides and try to get a better description posted sometime later today.

The beer is aging nicely despite the serving method. I throw a bit of CO2 on it after a good drinking "session" to keep oxidation at a minimum.

More later today.

If you want to do small batches of cask conditioned/real ale, try using mini-kegs. I've had good luck with mine... well.... if you overlook the one that I overcarbonated and bulged out.

At 1.3 gallons, with any luck, you'll have the thing consumed before oxidation has a chance to effect the beer at all. My kegs have a nice spigot on the bottom so you can gravity feed it. I was thinking about making a beer engine, but the partystar tapper does a great job of dispensing the beer. I'm holding off for a while, but keeping the BYO article in my back pocket just in case.

Okay, here are some additional details and pictures. I wish that there were more to explain about making this but it was seriously simple. First, I bought this item from amazon.com. (approx $25.00)



Then, using appropriate drill bits, etc., I attached the rocket hand pump to the lid of a small cooler I had.

Next, I made a trip to the plumbing section of my local hardware store for the parts to make two nipple adaptors fit to a threaded pipe, etc. as seen in this picture.



A rubber washer held by a metal washer seal the cooler so that water does not leak out. The fittings are identical on the inside and the outside of the cooler.

Then, I simply used some plastic tubing to connect the rocket hand pump to the nipple inside the cooler. I used a good amount of this tubing so that I could coil it up inside the cooler to increase the amount of beer that gets in contact with the ice water - but not too much that the beer gets below about 45 degrees.

On the outside of the cooler, a piece of tubing goes to a beer connect for my corny keg.



Once it is attached, I unscrew the poppet relief valve on the corny to let air in. I have thought about attaching my CO2 tank at about 1 lb of pressure instead so that no air comes into contact with the ale, however, some oxidation of the beer is actually authentic and desireable for many real ale enthusiasts.

That is about it.

I recently made an upgrade of putting a sparkler on the spout. I used a nipple adaptor, a bit of tubing, and a compression cap after I drilled some holes in it. Here is a pic.

I salute your ingenuity!

What is the difference between using a beer engine and a regular air pump style tap? (Other than that the beer engine looks cooler). They both let oxygen into the keg, so wouldn't they both have the same effect?

Not trying to be critical or anything, I'm just curious. I have had real ale from a beer engine and it tasted fantastic, but I assumed that was due in large part to the quality of the beer.

Baron von BeeGee said:

I salute your ingenuity!

Click to expand...

Thank you, Sir Baron. Coming from you, I am delightedly honored.

And it is also time to crack a homebrew and play some Euchre with friends. Cheers, all!

sonvolt said:

The brewpub near me (Rhodell's in Peoria) serves it warmer than the other brews

Click to expand...

You in Peoria????? I just moved from Peoria to East Peoria... Perhaps we should exchange some brew-wisdom....

Oh, and I am VERY familiar with Rhodell's---quite a fine brewery. I wish he would put out some of his "Dark Star" again. . .

Oh, I love the beer engine as well--

Have been thinking of doing a real ale/cask conditioned type ale (especially after having one at the international beer fest in Peoria this year), and your beer engine is giving me a flurry of ideas......

(I'm surprised my wife hasn't divorced me by now)

Biermann said:

You in Peoria????? I just moved from Peoria to East Peoria... Perhaps we should exchange some brew-wisdom....

Oh, and I am VERY familiar with Rhodell's---quite a fine brewery. I wish he would put out some of his "Dark Star" again. . .

Click to expand...

I live in Washington and have been going to Rhodell's since it opened in 1998. It is a great place and I am amazed at the quality that Mark is able to get from all malt extract brewing. It is very good beer.

A buddy of mine and I have been thinking about starting up a Washington area brewers club. But we want it to be very low key - just some guys getting together a few times a year to brew a few batches and exchange some homebrews. The other club around here has gotten really weird - sorry if you are a member. They are very critical of brews and have started doing formal judging of commercial beers at their meetings rather than enjoying homebrews.

Anyway - we should exchange some brewing knowledge if not some brews

Indeed. I don't know if you recall or not, but not too far back, there was an article in the Washington paper about a local beer club started by two area doctors from OSF. . .well, if you read the article, I am one of the doctors featured in that article. We are going to have our first homebrew night in August. Let me know if you are interested. We could use as many brewers as possible.

Oh, and I am NOT a member of the homebrew club. . . :cross: I am the founder of the Beer Club. . .*L*We deal almost exclusively with commercial beer. . .

Yeah! I do remember that article!!! Great stuff! I would love to make a meeting. Give me some details.

We've got a meeting scheduled for the 29th this month. Theme is American Pale Ales. We use Friar Tuck's as our supplier, and establish a "beer registry" for the meeting.

If you have a keg and c02 tank, why not just get a traditional tap and let the c02 do the work for you? Costs of co2?

sirsloop said:

If you have a keg and c02 tank, why not just get a traditional tap and let the c02 do the work for you? Costs of co2?

Click to expand...

Certainly not! This is a purist issue - a fascination with real ale/cask conditioned ale. Read the pdf that Brewpastor posted regarding CAMRA and Cellarsmanship. There is a tradition surrounding real ale in which any addition of CO2 is seen as a departure from an authentically historical drinking experience.

If there is a brewpub close to you which serves it, try a cask conditioned ale served from a real beer engine - you will definitely notice the taste difference.

There is a local brewpub in Princeton that serves porters and stouts out of a hand pump. I cant really make a comparison because they dont have a CO2 only version to compare with.

As far as being purist, drinking forced carbonated beer (or carbonated at all) thats anything but room temperature seems to be a contradiction to the goal! They certianly didnt have fridges or means to make ice other than what nature provided back in the day. Not tryin to be mean or anything... just your response kinda seemed out of place, considering.

There is a tradition surrounding real ale in which any addition of CO2 is seen as a departure from an authentically historical drinking experience.

Click to expand...

If you really want to get "purist" you can't use any plastic or stainless in the process, the wort should go from a copper fermenter, into an oak cask with a wooden plug valve for ageing touching nothing plastic or stainless.

sirsloop said:

There is a local brewpub in Princeton that serves porters and stouts out of a hand pump. I cant really make a comparison because they dont have a CO2 only version to compare with.

As far as being purist, drinking forced carbonated beer (or carbonated at all) thats anything but room temperature seems to be a contradiction to the goal! They certianly didnt have fridges or means to make ice other than what nature provided back in the day. Not tryin to be mean or anything... just your response kinda seemed out of place, considering.

Click to expand...

But there is a difference between a beer that is carbonated and dispensed using a tank of pressurized CO2 and serving a beer that is naturally conditioned and serving it without using CO2 to push it into the glass.

I am no real ale evangelist or CAMRANazi, and I could really care less about how you feel beer should be enjoyed. I simply made a beer engine so that I could enjoy a real ale in a manner that real ale enthusiasts prefer it to be served.

If you are truly interested in the kind of beer and serving methods that I am discussing in this thread, perhaps you should look outside this thread for information regarding the tradition of beer engines and real, cask conditioned ale. Better yet, go ask the owner of the brewpub you reference why he/she chooses to serve stouts off of the beer engine rather than force it with CO2, since this is your question and my answer does not seem to satisfy you.

Additionally, when one refers to enjoying an historical tradition, that could mean any number of things. Traditionally, cask conditioned ale is not served at room temperature but at cellar temps around 50 degrees. My post above explains that I like it a bit cooler.

Beer engines and cask conditioned ale is not for everyone - obviously. You should feel fine pulling beers off of your tap with your CO2. For me, however, I enjoy richer and more meaningful "sessions" and pulling drafts off of my beer engine gives me that.

Sorry that you don't "get it."

I really tried not making my response now sound snitty, picky, and snobby....

If you like your beer 50 degrees, force carbonated, and pulled through a manual spicket...dude...more power to you. We ALL homebrew cause we find store bought beer less than satisfying...for whatever reason that is