Sanitizing Bottles in Oven

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ThirdGen

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Bottling day is tomorrow! I was going to try sanitizing my bottles in the dishwasher on a Drying cycle, but then realized I don't have a way to check the temperature inside to make sure it's hot enough. So I checked my How-to-Brew page and saw that I can sterilize the bottles if left in the oven for 60 minutes at 338 degrees F. For those of you who have done this, did you add aluminum foil over the tops before putting them in the oven, or after you took them out?
 
Dude, get some starsan or iodophor so you don't have to deal with 338 deg bottles. Heat cycling the glass like that can't be good for their structural integrity either.
 
I've sterilized in the oven a couple of times, a friend does all her bottles that way. Put the foil on before they go in the oven. That way the inside of the bottle and the underside of the foil are sterile. Don't remove the foil until just before you're ready to bottle.
 
Dude, get some starsan or iodophor so you don't have to deal with 338 deg bottles. Heat cycling the glass like that can't be good for their structural integrity either.

I have starsan and that's how I sanitized them last time, but since it's only my 2nd batch I'd figure why not try something else for the sake of experimenting.

Does the heat actually effect their structural integrity? I've heard rumors, but I have not actually heard any evidence to support it. If so, then back to starsan it is tomorrow.
 
Well as long as they heat up and cool down at a slow even rate, I'm guessing they'll be fine. It's rapid or uneven heating and cooling that damages glass. That being said, I can't see any advantage over Starsan.
 
Anecdotally, I haven't seen that it causes increased bottle failures, but I'm not aware of any hard test data. The reason I don't sterilize in the oven any more has to do with my own workflow and how it fits into my routine (to the extent that I have a "routine"). Try it, see if it works for you.
 
I've done that a few times with no problems. Put the foil on the bottles, put them in the oven, bake at 350*F for three hours, then turn off and let cool overnight. I think the structural problems, if any, may come from the bottles heating too rapidly and unevenly (direct radiation from the heating coil on one side of the bottle), so I would stand in front of the oven and manually cycle the oven - on for 30 seconds, off for 30 seconds, for the 25 minutes it took to come up to temperature in order to avoid letting the heating coil get bright orange hot. Somewhat of a pain to do that, but the good side is you can do it a day or two before bottling and have one less thing to worry about on bottling day. Probably easier just to use StarSan.
 
We steam clean glass in an autoclave (HOT) in my lab for years, only thing that effects our bottle integrity is when they meet the floor at various speeds...:fro:
 
Starsan and the vinator are just so easy, I'm not sure why you'd want to over-complicate things by having to line up a bunch of bottles in the oven.
 
Starsan and the vinator are just so easy, I'm not sure why you'd want to over-complicate things by having to line up a bunch of bottles in the oven.

I was simply trying different techniques out. I know it may have taken more time, but perhaps another time. Packing for this weekend took over, so it looks like I'll just use starsan this go-around.
 
The temperature thing is interesting. Why do you have to bring it up to 338, when to get the "bugs" out of fruit, honey, and other additives in the secondary you use pasturization (sp) temps of only 150-170? Seems to me that the lowest heat to solve the problem would be the best option.
 
I always used to use heat for my bottling.

However, there is no need to sterilize. 170 for 45 minutes will do just fine. Get the bottles really clean, foil the tops, stack them in the oven, 170 for 45 minutes, leave them in there until you are ready to bottle.

IME, the best way to do it, is to pop them in the oven at night, turn off the oven after the 45 minutes, then bottle in the morning. It is a great way to do it with less labor and very consistent results.
 
Why heat them? Star-san is quick and easy and no rinse required. And you are not wasting all that energy of running your oven for an hour.
 
People always think it is tough... I just don't see why.

This is BY FAR the easiest and least labor intensive way I have ever used to sanitize bottles. If I am bottling just a couple, then I mix up some star san and do the dunk.

But for a whole batch, the oven is way less work. I literally just load it up, turn it on, then take them out when bottling then next day.

It isn't for everyone, but it is a legit technique that is super easy.
 
I have done that. Put the foil on first, and bake at 350 for an hour and a half, and then when your done, leave them in the oven overnight and dont open the door till morning, that lets the temprature ramp down. ive done hundreds of bottles this way and I like it. The only problem is I usually am not organized enough to do it ahead of time...
 
I've also used the oven before, and actually prefer it but for concerns that it might weaken the glass over time. It also requires more set up time to heat and cool (and you should heat them gradually). Palmer gives times in How to Brew, which vary by the amount of heat.
 
People always think it is tough... I just don't see why.

This is BY FAR the easiest and least labor intensive way I have ever used to sanitize bottles. If I am bottling just a couple, then I mix up some star san and do the dunk.

But for a whole batch, the oven is way less work. I literally just load it up, turn it on, then take them out when bottling then next day.

It isn't for everyone, but it is a legit technique that is super easy.

I guess for you guys up north it's viable. But in the south when you have the AC running full bore to keep up with nearly 100 deg outside temp, the last thing you want to do is run your oven for an hour and a half.

I don't bottle much anymore. but when I do I can sanitize 2 cases of bottles in 10-15 minutes with star-san. Dunk two at a time, fill partially, hold thumb over top and shake vigorously, dump, on the bottle rack and repeat.
 
I've done that a few times with no problems. Put the foil on the bottles, put them in the oven, bake at 350*F for three hours, then turn off and let cool overnight. I think the structural problems, if any, may come from the bottles heating too rapidly and unevenly (direct radiation from the heating coil on one side of the bottle), so I would stand in front of the oven and manually cycle the oven - on for 30 seconds, off for 30 seconds, for the 25 minutes it took to come up to temperature in order to avoid letting the heating coil get bright orange hot. Somewhat of a pain to do that, but the good side is you can do it a day or two before bottling and have one less thing to worry about on bottling day. Probably easier just to use StarSan.

I'm all for experimenting and trying new methods out, but I have to agree with the starsan/vinator folks. If I can get my entire bottling day (sanitize, bottle, cleanup) done in the time it takes the oven folks just to sanitize, it's a no brainer and not even worth trying for me.

The vinator makes a HUGE difference though. And a bottling tree. I actually don't really mind bottling day that much anymore since getting those two things.

The temperature thing is interesting. Why do you have to bring it up to 338, when to get the "bugs" out of fruit, honey, and other additives in the secondary you use pasturization (sp) temps of only 150-170? Seems to me that the lowest heat to solve the problem would be the best option.

I'm certainly no scientist, so someone can correct me or fill in gaps in this, but I think there is a differnce between dry heat and pasteurizing liquids. When heat is applied to a liquid, it takes a very short time at a lower temp. Dry heat takes a much higher temp and a longer time to achieve the same results. I vaguely remember Palmer having a chart in How to Brew that talked about the science of it all.
 
The advantage of the oven thing really comes in for those of us who are busy. I have a wife and a daughter to hang out with, a house to renovate, and a job that is demanding. The oven thing allowed me to spread out the time. Loading the oven Friday night takes maybe 5 minutes. Then I wake up early Saturday morning and could have everything bottled before everyone wakes up. So the sanitizing literally takes about 5 minutes for me.

If you are thinking about bottling all in one day, this technique is ridiculous. Who would sit and watch an over for an hour, then allow the bottles to cool. Actually time for my process is like 16 hours. By MY time investment is only about 5 minutes.

I keg almost everything now and just bottle out of kegs when I need to. This is how I did it while I was still bottling half my beer.
 
It's a combination of heat and pressure that kills microorganisms. Ovens don't apply any pressure, which is why they have to go to a higher temperature. A pressure cooker can sterilize at lower temps than an oven, even if the items are not submerged, simply because they combine heat as well as pressure.

But for beer it's not necessary to "sterilize" -- sanitizing is plenty good enough.
 
Why not just use the sani-rinse option in the dishwasher? Always works for me.
 
I bottled using my starsan method this morning, and remembered why I wanted to try the oven pretty quickly...

The way I have to do it is mix the starsan in the sink, then submerge 6 bottles at a time, empty/fill/cap, then submerge another 6 bottles, etc. It takes quite a bit of time doing it this way, so from what others have said, it would actually be faster and easier to just stick them in my oven the night before.
 
You can sanitize all of your bottles in StarSan, then fill them. As long as they're not sitting out, uncovered for an extended period they'll be fine. I submerge 12 at a time in a bucket, empty and set them on my table, then do the next 12 till I have enough for my batch. I usually sanitize 9 six packs for a 5 gal batch and usually have a few bottles left over.
 
The advantage of the oven thing really comes in for those of us who are busy.

This. I pretty much always oven sterilize. I just collect bottles, and whenever I have enough to fill my oven with (I can get 54 in), I rinse them out again (after having rinsed a bunch after drinking the beer that was in it), put foil around the top, and put them in the oven. Turn to 350, set the timer for 80 min (that gives enough time to heat the oven to 350 and bake for an hour). When the timer goes off I turn off the oven and leave them until the next morning. 7 min of work, tops.

Sometime, usually the next day, I take the bottles out and put them in milk crates. 5 min of work.

The good thing is that sterilized bottles with foil on top will stay sterilized almost indefinitely. This way I always have a bunch of bottles ready to go when bottling day comes (right now, e.g., I have about 5 crates of 12oz bottles and 3 of 22oz bottles that are good to go). One less thing to plan for and it fits well into my process.
 
I use the oven... oh man it is sooo back breaking... first the tearing of the foil and placing over the tops of the bottles... I mean, I almost have to take my eyes off the ballgame to get that done... Then that whole part of putting the bottles in the oven... good lord that must take me the better part of a commercial break...

Crank the hot box up to 350 grab beer from the fridge, sit back down, and 90 minutes later the hard part comes... TURNING OFF THE OVEN!!! holy smokes, turning the dial counter clockwise a half turn... Such a pain.

C'mon people oven is the way to go... I'll do it until I move on to kegging. I've even been in a hurry and placed a box fan on the oven door to suck the hot air out. Bottles were room temp in about an hour...

Sure it takes a little while, but if you are in a hurry to bottle you should have started sooner.
 
I use the oven... oh man it is sooo back breaking... first the tearing of the foil and placing over the tops of the bottles... I mean, I almost have to take my eyes off the ballgame to get that done... Then that whole part of putting the bottles in the oven... good lord that must take me the better part of a commercial break...

Crank the hot box up to 350 grab beer from the fridge, sit back down, and 90 minutes later the hard part comes... TURNING OFF THE OVEN!!! holy smokes, turning the dial counter clockwise a half turn... Such a pain.

C'mon people oven is the way to go... I'll do it until I move on to kegging. I've even been in a hurry and placed a box fan on the oven door to suck the hot air out. Bottles were room temp in about an hour...

Sure it takes a little while, but if you are in a hurry to bottle you should have started sooner.

I would be careful trying to cool your bottles quickly, that is where your going to strain the bottles and compromise the strength. And I would imagine that sterilizing your bottles this way fatigues them and perpetuates crack growth in the bottles faster than normal use. My advise is to raise and drop temperatures as slowly as possible.

Wiki page on Thermal Shock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_shock
 
To each their own, but I found that just the dishwasher with a dry cycle was just fine.
 
If boiling glass will sanitize it then theoretically the temperature that is needed to be reached is 212F. If this temperature is reached then why would it matter if you left the glass at this temperature for 1 minute or 100 minutes. Why would you need to bake your bottles for hours. Seemes to me that if you put the bottles in the oven and heated them to 250F and then let them cool back down they would be sanitized.
 
If boiling glass will sanitize it then theoretically the temperature that is needed to be reached is 212F. If this temperature is reached then why would it matter if you left the glass at this temperature for 1 minute or 100 minutes. Why would you need to bake your bottles for hours. Seemes to me that if you put the bottles in the oven and heated them to 250F and then let them cool back down they would be sanitized.

I don't think so. Time matters. I could touch fire for a fraction of a second, but not leave my hand there. I can withstand intense heat for a very short time, but not a long time. Bacteria are the same way, I assume.
 
I don't have it with me but the book Yeast has a paragraph or two talking about the difference in temperature and time needed when using dry heat vs wet heat. The take away for me was to use star-san, the oven is just not designed for sterilizing.
 
I don't have it with me but the book Yeast has a paragraph or two talking about the difference in temperature and time needed when using dry heat vs wet heat. The take away for me was to use star-san, the oven is just not designed for sterilizing.

Palmer's How to Brew has a table as well, and the time differences range from something like 45 minutes to 12 hours. I've oven sterilized a few times and I like it if I plan in advanace, but I'm afraid it will weaken my bottles over time.
 
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