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ohiodad

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O.k. last sunday my wife and I started a Vintner's Reserve Gewurtz kit. It said in 5 to 7 days take a sample and check gravity etc then transfer to a 6 gallon carboy. Now I have a question. With my beer brewing I never move a beer to the secondary when there are still bubbles in the airlock.. This wine however is still perking away quite strong and showing no signs of letting up after almost a week. Do I move it on the 7th day or leave it ferment out before moving. Is it normal to do it this way, with bubbles still coming in the airlock? Thanks for any help you can provide!
 
You move it when it says to. For wine, there really IS a secondary fermentation. I always move mine when the sg is 1.020 or so or less. This protects the wine from oxidation. The co2 coming out will definitely drop down and you want to move the wine before that, if that makes sense. For some of my wines, I've moved them as early as 3 days into primary. Sometimes wine will go dry really fast, but sometimes it's a little slower.

Another reason they have you move it sooner rather than later is for clearing. It sounds counterintuitive, but you need some of the lees (sediment) to aid in clearing. The clearing compound they put in the kits needs something to "bind" to, so you stir up the lees into the wine when you add the clarifier. If you wait until after primary is over, you won't have the lees to do this. If you read through the instructions deeper into around step 3 or somewhere, I think they mention this.
 
YooperBrew said:
You move it when it says to. For wine, there really IS a secondary fermentation. I always move mine when the sg is 1.020 or so or less. This protects the wine from oxidation. The co2 coming out will definitely drop down and you want to move the wine before that, if that makes sense. For some of my wines, I've moved them as early as 3 days into primary. Sometimes wine will go dry really fast, but sometimes it's a little slower.

Another reason they have you move it sooner rather than later is for clearing. It sounds counterintuitive, but you need some of the lees (sediment) to aid in clearing. The clearing compound they put in the kits needs something to "bind" to, so you stir up the lees into the wine when you add the clarifier. If you wait until after primary is over, you won't have the lees to do this. If you read through the instructions deeper into around step 3 or somewhere, I think they mention this.

Wow thanks for the details Yoop! I thought maybe the process was somewhat different. This cleared it up well. Now I'm wondering if I should wait until the 7th day or do it now... I wasn't even going to pop the lid til Sunday.
 
Well, if the airlock is bubbling fast you don't need to check it. But I've had wines ferment out really fast, so why not go ahead, pop the lid and grab an sg? you can also then have a sample of your wine!
 
Just out of curiosity, do you use different equipment for the wine....so as not to introduce undesireable yeasts/off flavors in your beer?
 
I don't- I figure glass is glass regardless of what was in it. I use the same primary buckets and tubing and autosiphon, too. I just clean and sanitize really well. My buckets are bright white and have no odor, so I haven't worried about it. I'm going to be getting some new tubing, though. Not because it's going to be separate, just because it's getting old.

I often do a final rinse of my equipment with a sulftie solution before I put it away. That's mainly because I store stuff in my damp basement.
 
Hmmmm....maybe one of these days I'll make some wine. Guess I'd just need a corker and some wine bottles and I'd be good to go, right?
 
Yep. That's pretty much it if you're doing kit wines. You already have the racking cane and tubing and hydrometer.

A word of warning, though- (make that two):

1. Wine is easier than beer, so it gets even more addicting.

2. Wine takes forever compared to beer, so you must be patient!
 
#1 is good. #2 is bad! I figured it'd take a long time....I guess that makes it taste all the better!
 
Alright so we racked it over to the carboy this weekend.. Very cloudy it is... Didn't top up yet as the kit said not to. Gravity reading was 1.008... Only problem I'm having is that I can't seem to keep a stopper in that 6 gallon carboy. Keeps pushing them out. I've tried a number 6.5 and a 7 and neither will stay... Only thing different from beer is that we are using one of those S shaped Airlocks. So anyway the next step says in 10 days we should be at .996 or less add some things and degass then add the F-pack sweetener. Cleanup in that bucket was remarkably easy compared to beer too... The sample we drew didn't taste too bad.. I was amazed at the amount of carbonation in it though...
 
I use an s shaped air lock for beer Lol. It's all in what you are used to, but I can see the slightest movement with the "S" kind, I feel like the 2 piece bubbler makes it hard to see slight build up. You pretty much have to wait for it to bubble.
 
If you sanitize, then dry, the bung it should stay in better. A 6 gallon carboy uses a #7, I believe. I bought some carboy caps for wine, just because they seem to stay better.

Yes, there is a ton of co2 in kit wines. That's why they have you degass it thoroughly. When you do the degassing step, it's helpful to use the wine whip in a drill. But watch out for volcanoes. It'll bubble up unbelievably. I don't have that set up, so I just stirred until my arm fell off and then changed arms, over and over and over.
 
YooperBrew said:
If you sanitize, then dry, the bung it should stay in better. A 6 gallon carboy uses a #7, I believe. I bought some carboy caps for wine, just because they seem to stay better.

Yes, there is a ton of co2 in kit wines. That's why they have you degass it thoroughly. When you do the degassing step, it's helpful to use the wine whip in a drill. But watch out for volcanoes. It'll bubble up unbelievably. I don't have that set up, so I just stirred until my arm fell off and then changed arms, over and over and over.

I bought the wine whip for the drill... Thanks for the tips... Maybe I should stop off and get a carboy cap cause I can't seem to keep that silly thing in the carboy...
 
YooperBrew said:
You move it when it says to. For wine, there really IS a secondary fermentation. I always move mine when the sg is 1.020 or so or less. This protects the wine from oxidation. The co2 coming out will definitely drop down and you want to move the wine before that, if that makes sense. For some of my wines, I've moved them as early as 3 days into primary. Sometimes wine will go dry really fast, but sometimes it's a little slower.

Another reason they have you move it sooner rather than later is for clearing. It sounds counterintuitive, but you need some of the lees (sediment) to aid in clearing. The clearing compound they put in the kits needs something to "bind" to, so you stir up the lees into the wine when you add the clarifier. If you wait until after primary is over, you won't have the lees to do this. If you read through the instructions deeper into around step 3 or somewhere, I think they mention this.

Yoop, Why do you transfer so quickly? Why not just wait till fermentaion stops and the bulk lees drop and then transfer off? I have to admit I've only made 1 kit so maybe the kits require somethind different. When using grapes I always ferment to dryness and then transfer. Is it something unique to the kits?
 
Kits have different instructions. They tell you to move in 5-7 days, when the sg is 1.020 or less. They want some lees, for the clarifiers.

I also move my fruit wines around then, too, though. Fruit will start to rot and give off flavors if you don't rack the wine off of it as it decomposes, especially if I use pectic enzyme. Also, I ferment in a bucket with a loose muslin cover. I want to get the wine under airlock under 1.020-1.030. So that's about the time I rack off the fruit and into secondary.

I've only used fresh grapes once, but I racked that too before it went dry. I crushed first and then removed the fruit about day 5 or so. I'd have to check my notes to find out for sure.

For juice, ciders, etc, I don't move from primary quickly at all. Only when there are lees that I have to rack off of. Since I usually use an airlock for primary in those cases, I just wait it out.
 
O.k. I figured I'll just stick to one thread here for all my newbie questions.. Yooper since you've been my personal advisor through this wine thus far can you advise what kind of corks I should use to cork the bottles? I'm getting ready to buy them and the corker and I just wanted suggestions. Is a double lever corker o.k. for this.. The cheap one? Can you recommend a cork to use from northern brewer's website? Also when you bottle do you bottle just like you do with beer? Rack to a bottling bucket and fill the bottles with a wand?
 
The double level corker is ok and not bad at around $25 or so. I've bought three corkers, though, since I went cheap the first time and then bought a Gilda corker (don't waste your money) and then a Portuguese floor corker for around $55. I wish I would have bought the floor corker right away. When you make a kit, that's 30 bottles of wine. It's a real pain to cork that many without the floor corker, but it can be done. If you think you might make more wine in the future, I'd recommend the floor corker right away. #9 size corks are the usual corks to use, but sometimes those are hard to put in with a hand corker. I've used #8 corks when I had a hand corker, but don't recommend it unless you absolutely need to. The #9 are just a bit bigger and will ensure sealing better. Just plain #1 quality #9 size corks are the best for home winemakers.

As far as bottling, it is just like beer. The bottling wand works great for it. If I'm only bottling a one gallon batch, I just siphon and fill the bottles, but for 3 gallon batches and up, I use the bottling bucket.
 
O.k. back again. So last Tuesday my wife and I did the degassing and added the clarifyers and such and put the airlock back on it. It was great to watch this get crystal clear very quick and continue down into the carboy. Only problem is it is now crystal clear about halfway down the carboy but still quite cloudy for the bottom half. Now I realize that this has another week til it is supposed to be bottled via kit instructions but it just doesn't seem that it has been progressing further down into the carboy. Is this a problem? Should we be alarmed? Or is this kind of normal and I'm just being a worry wort? Thanks for the advice!
 
Usually it clears all the way down from the neck to the bottom fairly quickly. I would say wait and see what happens but don't bottle it until it's clear no matter what the kit instructions say!
 
YooperBrew said:
Usually it clears all the way down from the neck to the bottom fairly quickly. I would say wait and see what happens but don't bottle it until it's clear no matter what the kit instructions say!


Will it clear with time Yoop? Like it says leave it 2 weeks.. But is it possible that it is just going to take 3 or 4?
 
Well, I can give you a definite maybe. Or a "probably".

I'm assuming that it's at the same temperature, same place, etc, so I really don't know for sure but I'd wait a couple of weeks before getting too concerned!
 
YooperBrew said:
Well, I can give you a definite maybe. Or a "probably".

I'm assuming that it's at the same temperature, same place, etc, so I really don't know for sure but I'd wait a couple of weeks before getting too concerned!

Cool.. Thanks Yoop! A definite maybe works for me... Thanks for easing my mind some..
 
ohiodad said:
Cool.. Thanks Yoop! A definite maybe works for me... Thanks for easing my mind some..

Good news! It looks pretty clear top to bottom now... I guess I was a little premature in my worrying!! I think we are going to bottle this weekend IF we can come up with 30 bottles by then!! I keep telling my wife to drink drink drink! :tank:
 
bigkevj said:
So, here is what I have learned through my first wine kit based on questions in this thread:

Transferring: my instructions said to wait until the SG is at a certain level, I did so. It also said to leave the lees. Some kits dont tell you either of these, but to take all the lees to the secondary and to transfer in 5 days. Point is, every kit is different. Do what the instructions say, and you will be fine.

Degassing - one of the most important steps. Degas until it no longer foams. With my first kit and a drill mixer, took about 20-25 min. You must get all the co2 out of the wine before you bottle. Some people even degas while bulk aging.

When to bottle: I always plan on bulk aging for at least 6 months. Then you know the wine is as clear as you can get it by letting it sit, and should be degassed. I use #9 corks with a hand corker and they work fine, just takes a bit of work.

As far as equipment, the only equipment I bought for wine that I didnt already have for beer was 2 6 gallon carboys, a wine thief, the drill stirrer, some K metabisulfite for long term aging, and the corker. I have a friend who owns an italian restaurant, and he has his staff save the empty bottles the customers drink, and also asked the bartender at the country club i am a member at to save bottles. I amassed over 60 bottles in about 2 weeks.

Yeah, that's all really good concise information. Thanks for sharing that. I think I'll copy your post and stick it in a new thread, to make sure others will see it. Thanks again!
 
Well the first batch of wine went into the bottles today! Wifey is so proud! We read afterwards that we were supposed to add some Potassium Metabisulphate or something but well we forgot that. I was kind of releived to read that it is mostly for aging longterm as I don't see my wife letting this one age much more than 6 months before it is tapped out anyway. It was very clear though and tasted pretty nice when we were preparing to bottle!! Looking forward already to the next kit! But I still like beer better :)
 
ohiodad said:
Well the first batch of wine went into the bottles today! Wifey is so proud! We read afterwards that we were supposed to add some Potassium Metabisulphate or something but well we forgot that. I was kind of releived to read that it is mostly for aging longterm as I don't see my wife letting this one age much more than 6 months before it is tapped out anyway. It was very clear though and tasted pretty nice when we were preparing to bottle!! Looking forward already to the next kit! But I still like beer better :)

Oh I forgot I wanted to say one more thing! Thanks for the advice on the corker Yoop! I really liked that floor corker. I bet it is an absolute pain to do with a hand corker! Glad I made the investment up front.
 
Glad to hear that everything went so well for you! That's awesome.

I love the floor corker, and I know I wasted money buying two other corkers first trying to save money. Just trying to help others avoid that!
 
great tips.....first batch of wine is coming up over Xmas break!

30 bottles.....no problem, we've been saving for a bit :D
 
YooperBrew said:
Glad to hear that everything went so well for you! That's awesome.

I love the floor corker, and I know I wasted money buying two other corkers first trying to save money. Just trying to help others avoid that!

I think the floor corker is the best tip for beginners. Last week I began to prepare for bottling my first batch of white zinfandel and after going through about 10 #8 corks trying to adjust the double lever corker, I gave up and ordered the portugese floor corker and some #9 corks.

The floor corker arrived yesterday and I was finished bottling in about 30 minutes. Each cork went in perfectly every time about 1/8 inch below the lip of the bottle with little effort. With the double lever hand corker I always had about 1/4 inch sticking up out of the bottle.

If you plan on doing a few kits per year, you wont regret getting the floor corker.
 
Great thread, and thanks for all the advice YooperBrew.
I'm planning to bottle my first wine batch (a Merlot) this weekend.
I picked up a used hand corker, and borrowed a floor corker to try out both.
 
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