BIAB for smaller batch

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Ridire

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I was considering trying my hand at an AG brew on a small scale so I can do it on the stove top, and without a mash tun. I see the information about BIAB techniques that use a large bag that lines the pot during the mash. Is there really any reason you can't just do this in two muslin bags?

I was thinking about a 3.5 gallon batch, which would call for a little under 7 lbs of grain. That is only about 2.5 gallons of water for the mash, correct? So couldn't I just use the same technique with tied muslin bags that I use for my extract or PM brews? Any downside to doing it this way instead of the large bag that lines the entire pot?

Bring 2.5 gallons to 145-155 degrees, soak two muslin bags, each with 3 - 4 lbs. of grain in the 2.5 gallons for 45 minutes to an hour (keeping heat relatively stable at 145-150). Simultaneously heat another 1.5 - 2 gallons of water to about 170+ degrees. Add the steep water to the mash after the 45-60 minutes and dip the bags in the wort a few times to get them washed off a bit and then let the bags drain into the boil pot for a bit while increasing heat to bring to a boil...add hops at the proper times, and whala, beer.

Anything wrong with this plan?
 
The beauty of BIAB is that the mash & sparge are essentially done in one pot; provided your brewing vessel will hold the full volume-mash+grain absorption+boil off. As far as using more than one bag, as long as the grains are equally stirred in, should have no effect.
 
The beauty of BIAB is that the mash & sparge are essentially done in one pot; provided your brewing vessel will hold the full volume-mash+grain absorption+boil off. As far as using more than one bag, as long as the grains are equally stirred in, should have no effect.

So, no problem in using the muslin bags like tea bags, as opposed to using a large bag as more of a means to get the grain out of a free floating mash?
 
Ridire said:
So, no problem in using the muslin bags like tea bags, as opposed to using a large bag as more of a means to get the grain out of a free floating mash?

No problem. You could also use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag at lowes or depot or any paint store. They are cheap, come in packs of 2 or more and work fine for a small to medium size BIAB
 
No problem. You could also use a 5 gallon paint strainer bag at lowes or depot or any paint store. They are cheap, come in packs of 2 or more and work fine for a small to medium size BIAB

Aren't those things nylon? Don't they melt to the bottom of the pot?
 
The reason you need the large bag is to give the grains the room and water they need to extract the sugars. You can do it with 2 bags, but I would recommend against it. You can get bags that will hold up to 15 pound bags from Austin home brew, northern brewer, and I'm pretty sure Midwest supplies for around $6. I stir my grains as its mashing to improve my efficiency, can't do this with 2 bags, or not do it well. I would suggest either get a bigger bag, or do partial mash in one bag. Sometimes when my pot is not big enough to hold all the grains with the water I will add 2-5 pounds of DME depending on how big a brew I'm doing making it basically a partial mash.
 
The reason you need the large bag is to give the grains the room and water they need to extract the sugars. You can do it with 2 bags, but I would recommend against it. You can get bags that will hold up to 15 pound bags from Austin home brew, northern brewer, and I'm pretty sure Midwest supplies for around $6. I stir my grains as its mashing to improve my efficiency, can't do this with 2 bags, or not do it well. I would suggest either get a bigger bag, or do partial mash in one bag. Sometimes when my pot is not big enough to hold all the grains with the water I will add 2-5 pounds of DME depending on how big a brew I'm doing making it basically a partial mash.

Those were the kinds of concerns I was having. The idea is to do all grain, really just to do it. I don't want to add extract. I could do the paint strainer but I was concerned about it melting. Am I worrying about nothing?
 
Ridire said:
Those were the kinds of concerns I was having. The idea is to do all grain, really just to do it. I don't want to add extract. I could do the paint strainer but I was concerned about it melting. Am I worrying about nothing?

Yes, relax! You're really only at mashing temp when you use them. I have done 50+ brews easy with paint strainers and the only one I had burn, was the one that touched the flame directly before I got it in the pot..lol

If you mash out, ( I don't when I BIAB) you can just lift the bag and ramp up the temp or just roll bag down the pot a little and it will be fine. I've done it both ways and haven't burnt a bag in a pot doing BIAB.

Hope that helps.
 
Yes, relax! You're really only at mashing temp when you use them. I have done 50+ brews easy with paint strainers and the only one I had burn, was the one that touched the flame directly before I got it in the pot..lol

If you mash out, ( I don't when I BIAB) you can just lift the bag and ramp up the temp or just roll bag down the pot a little and it will be fine. I've done it both ways and haven't burnt a bag in a pot doing BIAB.

Hope that helps.

It does. Thanks.
 
I do BIAB for ordinary bitters and the like. It's easy with a small grain bill and a colander. Typically for the mash I heat it up to about 156 and let it drop to ~150 then add a couple more degrees via direct fire... not too worried about maintaining a constant mash temperature, as long as it's in range.
 
How big of a BIAB batch can be done in a 5 gallon pot? I understand that it depends on the style, but is there a "rule of thumb" or anything?
 
How big of a BIAB batch can be done in a 5 gallon pot? I understand that it depends on the style, but is there a "rule of thumb" or anything?

Sorry but there really is no rule of thumb. "Ideally" your kettle should be double batch size when doing a full volume style BIAB, BUT, there are simple ways to stretch your small kettle...

1. Perform a sparge in another kettle or bucket aka "dunk sparge" note: even a cold water sparge will work.
2. Gently pour sparge water through your grain bag while it is over the kettle, aka "sprinke sparge"
3. Top up your kettle w/ additional wort during the first 45 out of 60 minutes.
4. Top up your fermenter with water, aka "partial boil"

All of these shortcuts can work, however it will get more difficult to "cheat" the higher gravity you brew...also efficiency will likely be slightly lower, especially when topping up w/ water. So to finally answer the original question, you "could" likely brew a 5-6 gallon batch w/ a five gallon kettle. Give it a try! Worst case you will get a session beer...cheers!
 
wilserbrewer said:
Sorry but there really is no rule of thumb. "Ideally" your kettle should be double batch size when doing a full volume style BIAB, BUT, there are simple ways to stretch your small kettle...

1. Perform a sparge in another kettle or bucket aka "dunk sparge" note: even a cold water sparge will work.
2. Gently pour sparge water through your grain bag while it is over the kettle, aka "sprinke sparge"
3. Top up your kettle w/ additional wort during the first 45 out of 60 minutes.
4. Top up you fermenter with water, aka "partial boil"

All of these shortcuts can work, however it will get more difficult to "cheat" the higher gravity you brew...also efficiency will likely be slightly lower, especially when topping up w/ water. So to finally answer the original question, you "could" likely brew a 5-6 gallon batch w/ a five gallon kettle. Give it a try! Worst case you will get a session beer...cheers!

I was wondering why I couldn't just do a partial boil, like with extract, but with all grain.
 
I was wondering why I couldn't just do a partial boil, like with extract, but with all grain.

You certainly can...BUT, the less sparge water that passes through the grain, the less sugar will be washed out and you efficiency will suffer the more you "top up" with water. However, IF you use an extra pound or two of grain, you can attempt to compenste for this lack of efficiency.

Search around, there is a guy that does this and explains it well...not for everyone, but it can be done.
 
I do partial mash partial boil BIAB in my 5 gallon SS BK/MT. I use 5lbs of grains in the mash in a paint strainer bag. When the water hits 150F or so,I quickly stir in the grains,using a plastic paddle to break up dough balls & evenly wet the mash. When it his 152,I wrap it up in my thinsulate lined winter hunting coat for the 1 hour mash. The temp goes up 1 degree,rather than going down 5 degrees or so. I use 2 gallons of water for the mash,by the way.
While it's mashing,I heat another 1.5 gallons of sparge water in another kettle. After the mash,I pull the grain bag & let it drain in a SS collander on top of the BK/MT & sparge that. Letting it drain again,then onto the heat for the boil & hop additions. I ad the 3-3.3lbs of extract at flame out,cover & steep for at least a few minutes to pasteurize. The wort is still boiling hot,& pasteurization happens about 162F,so it's all god. My FG's are from 1.046 to 1/055,depending on the recipes thus far. Of course,that'd go up if it's a big beer.
 
I do partial mash partial boil BIAB in my 5 gallon SS BK/MT. I use 5lbs of grains in the mash in a paint strainer bag. When the water hits 150F or so,I quickly stir in the grains,using a plastic paddle to break up dough balls & evenly wet the mash. When it his 152,I wrap it up in my thinsulate lined winter hunting coat for the 1 hour mash. The temp goes up 1 degree,rather than going down 5 degrees or so. I use 2 gallons of water for the mash,by the way.
While it's mashing,I heat another 1.5 gallons of sparge water in another kettle. After the mash,I pull the grain bag & let it drain in a SS collander on top of the BK/MT & sparge that. Letting it drain again,then onto the heat for the boil & hop additions. I ad the 3-3.3lbs of extract at flame out,cover & steep for at least a few minutes to pasteurize. The wort is still boiling hot,& pasteurization happens about 162F,so it's all god. My FG's are from 1.046 to 1/055,depending on the recipes thus far. Of course,that'd go up if it's a big beer.

This is what I did batch before last to really good results. My last was the Miller Lite clone and it only needed 5.5 lbs of grain and didn't need extract so I guess it qualifies as all grain but it went well though it is still fermenting.
 
I do partial mash partial boil BIAB in my 5 gallon SS BK/MT. I use 5lbs of grains in the mash in a paint strainer bag. When the water hits 150F or so,I quickly stir in the grains,using a plastic paddle to break up dough balls & evenly wet the mash. When it his 152,I wrap it up in my thinsulate lined winter hunting coat for the 1 hour mash. The temp goes up 1 degree,rather than going down 5 degrees or so. I use 2 gallons of water for the mash,by the way.
While it's mashing,I heat another 1.5 gallons of sparge water in another kettle. After the mash,I pull the grain bag & let it drain in a SS collander on top of the BK/MT & sparge that. Letting it drain again,then onto the heat for the boil & hop additions. I ad the 3-3.3lbs of extract at flame out,cover & steep for at least a few minutes to pasteurize. The wort is still boiling hot,& pasteurization happens about 162F,so it's all god. My FG's are from 1.046 to 1/055,depending on the recipes thus far. Of course,that'd go up if it's a big beer.


How much water do you use in the initial mash w/ 5 lbs of grain?
 
Sorry but there really is no rule of thumb. "Ideally" your kettle should be double batch size when doing a full volume style BIAB, BUT, there are simple ways to stretch your small kettle...

1. Perform a sparge in another kettle or bucket aka "dunk sparge" note: even a cold water sparge will work.
2. Gently pour sparge water through your grain bag while it is over the kettle, aka "sprinke sparge"
3. Top up your kettle w/ additional wort during the first 45 out of 60 minutes.
4. Top up your fermenter with water, aka "partial boil"

All of these shortcuts can work, however it will get more difficult to "cheat" the higher gravity you brew...also efficiency will likely be slightly lower, especially when topping up w/ water. So to finally answer the original question, you "could" likely brew a 5-6 gallon batch w/ a five gallon kettle. Give it a try! Worst case you will get a session beer...cheers!

Thanks for the informative post. :mug:

I'm expecting a brew demon sometime soon and thought this might be a way to both use my new toy and experiment with all grain or at least a partial mash. Think I could get a 2.5 gallon batch out of 4 gallon pot?
 
Thanks for the informative post. :mug:

I'm expecting a brew demon sometime soon and thought this might be a way to both use my new toy and experiment with all grain or at least a partial mash. Think I could get a 2.5 gallon batch out of 4 gallon pot?

Most definitely!!!

I usually mash with about 3.5 gallons, maybe slightly more. Start with just over 3 gallons in the kettle, heat up to about 150, add the grains, then top up to the kettle's limit and add a little more heat to get to mash temp. Do a couple of squeezes/dunk sparges and then a final squeeze to get as much liquid out of the grain as possible.

Ended up adding about 1 litre to the boil near the end last Friday, because had done a particularly strong rolling boil and it looked like the level was a little low in the kettle. Managed to get a bit over 2.5 G into the Mr. Beer LBK whilst comfortably leaving a bit of kettle trub, mostly hop sediment, behind.
 
I did a 2 Gallon, full volume - no sparge, AG Oatmeal Stout this weekend with 4.375lb of grain, and 3.5 gallons strike water.

My 4 gallon pot was full to be sure, but it held.

Wrapped it in a towel, a sweater, and my winter jacket and only lost 2-3 degrees over 60 minutes.

Not too Shabby.
 
I do 4G BIAB batches using a 3.5g pot for mashing and my 5g brew pot for dunk sparging. I use beersmith to make my recipes and the volume and temp calculations work out perfectly every time. I get about 70percent efficiency so I can't do big beers but it's perfect for average gravity beers.

I wrap my mash kettle in a towel and sit it on the the radiator and never lose a single degree. It's ghetto but it works!

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