Why doesn't everyone just BIAB?

1MadScientist said:

When I went AG, I built the 10 gallon round cooler mush tun and enjoyed the process, but from there I went to BIAB for my 5 gallon batches. I can also make 10 gallons. I can lift the grain out with my pulley system, as I brew in my garage.

Click to expand...

harbor freight has their electric over head pulley on sale too!
44425475 $109.99

GD

For me, I do 5gal full boils in my kitchen. I use a 8gal kettle and I like big beers so a $40 cooler and $20 of parts to build a mash tun was cheeper then buying a bigger kettle. Theres no way I can get 15+ lbs of grain in my kettle to BIAB, and thats why i use a 3 vessle system. I have a small kitchen in my apt, but using a cooler as a mash tun works great for me. Mash, open valve, fly sparge and collect my wort and im done.

Plus, I like the fact that when my grain is in my mash tun I can walk away for an hour and not stand over the stove for longer then I have to. Then sparge and again walk away for an hour. There is very little work in a mash/fly sparge sutup. I mean like none! The coolers do all the work.

I brewed my first beer in 1981. The MOST important thing I've learned over the years is there are almost unlimited ways to make great beer, from extract boils on the stove to slick 3 vessel electronic HERMS systems. Too often people get religion for the system they select; reality is there are positives and negatives in all choices, it's more a matter of what you value most (for the moment).

In recent times, I moved from batch sparging using multiple gas burners to an electric HERMS system. Selecting a new, bigger boil pot, PID controlled elements and flexible connections allows me now to do extract, BIAB, batch sparge or full HERMS.

*** Oops! Sorry for reviving an old thread - I must have been doing a search.

In terms of efficiency/cost of ingredients(for big beers), it's HERMS>batch>BIAB>extract.
Equipment cost follows the same pattern.
In terms of time (and also space) it's extract<BIAB<batch<HERMS

Of course there are exceptions, but all things equal(when does that happen), these rankings are generally true.

There are limits to what you can brew with extract and very few limits even with pure BIAB and no limits that I've found with Batch or HERMS. BIAB by default has a thin mash, and efficiency goes down on a big grain bill. I brew a bunch of high alcohol, complex beers and buy grain in bulk so batch or HERMS are what I use most often.

Chose what's right for your values, space or budget and brew great beer!

I do BIAB and I'm not even considering anything changing anytime soon. I also do a lot of barleywines and high gravity brews. My kettle is 10 gallons and I have no problem mashing 20lbs of grain with it. It is, about the limit of what I can do without moving up to a 12 or 15 gallon kettle, but it works for me. Granted, my batches are never larger than 6.25 gallons going into a fermenter, more often 5.5-6 gallons. But it works for me. One thing I do may be considered heresy. I drain my mash, as much as I can, into a container. Then I set that container aside. Then I add, usually about 2 gallons, 170F hot water back into the kettle with my spent grains and soak and stir them around pretty good. Then I lift the bag and let it drain. Once all of this is competed I put the kettle back on the stove, add the wort I pulled off the first time, and start heating up for the boil. I usually have around 7.5-8.5 gallon in the kettle at this point. I boil from there.

Many times I'll have long boils as a result of this, but I don't care. Never had a DMS issue doing it this way. lol. But I do manage to get OG's in the 1.100 territory if I want. Plus, I alway keep some DME around if it needs a push. I rarely need it.

I have to buy a lot of large, shiny things that are destined to piss off my wife.


Brewing with a three vessel system fulfils that need... more than I ever imagined.

I have done both BIAB and a gravity 3 vessel system. I got good results from each but thought the wort was a but cloudy with BIAB.

Last time I sparged the bag over a separate vessel and squeezed. Next time I try a BIAB I think I'll try Chadwick's method. Basically it's a modified batch sparge.

Holy necro-thread batman.
Whatever... I'll chime in too.
I didn't see in the poll "tried it, didn't like it".
My equipment progress was:

Extract, one kettle.
Partial mash, one kettle. Added an immersion chiller.
BIAB, one kettle, full volume.
BIAB, one kettle, full volume. Added a pulley system.
Added a second kettle and a drain valve to the MT. I started noticing temperature cold spots during the mash. Started trying to stir more while mashing.

Had trouble stirring the mash in a bag and added a sort of wire spreader to keep the bag from getting all twisted and to give room to stir.

Started noticing that the temperature during mash was not even or steady no matter how well I insulated.

One day I tore the bag, so I just drained out the bottom valve and discovered it worked without even using the bag or a proper false bottom.

I decided to try using a piece of screen as a false bottom, and it worked OK.

This was my turning point... the bag was a pain in the ass, and easier was my goal.

I soon built a traditional MT, and the following years I enjoyed very much building bigger and better traditional equipment. Still going too. I never looked back nor regretted moving from BIAB.

So I have been brewing on my eHERMS (gas boil) for several years now. I love it and enjoy tinkering with it. I'm not particularly interested in high gravity beers and mostly brew session ales and lagers. My only complaint is the time involved with a brew day. From prepping to clean up, I'm spending 5-6 hours in the garage. Five years ago I wouldn't have thought that was an issue, but life changes. Is it crazy that I am considering dabbling with BIAB? I have a 240V BoilCoil and High Gravity EBC-SV controller. I was thinking about buying a 62 qt pot with a basket and building a single vessel electric BIAB rig. Is that crazy or what? This would solely be a time saver. Not sure whether I am having a stroke of genius or losing my mind. Thoughts!?!?

Current rig. . .

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1429580026.423626.jpg

How big is your current kettle? How big is the kettle above w/ the herms coil in it? Might be possible to reconfigure what you have? I would suggest keeping your proposed BIAB rig simple, perhaps insulating rather than recircing w/ a pump and do simple infusions....no pump and lines to clean saves time, and with a little experience single infusion works fine IME.

chisena said:

So I have been brewing on my eHERMS (gas boil) for several years now. I love it and enjoy tinkering with it. I'm not particularly interested in high gravity beers and mostly brew session ales and lagers. My only complaint is the time involved with a brew day. From prepping to clean up, I'm spending 5-6 hours in the garage. Five years ago I wouldn't have thought that was an issue, but life changes. Is it crazy that I am considering dabbling with BIAB? I have a 240V BoilCoil and High Gravity EBC-SV controller. I was thinking about buying a 62 qt pot with a basket and building a single vessel electric BIAB rig. Is that crazy or what? This would solely be a time saver. Not sure whether I am having a stroke of genius or losing my mind. Thoughts!?!?

Current rig. . .

View attachment 272529

Click to expand...

If I prep my grain the day before and have my water additions ready, I can come home to water already heated and mash in immediately, then go mow the lawn or play with the kids for 45 minutes, then pull the bag and get the boil started, then go off and do something else for another 30 or 40 minutes, then I need to finish up the boil chill and dump to a fermenter.
12 gallons to the fermenter, double batches.

Total time from mash in till clean up, 3 hour and 15 minutes and the grass is cut or the kids are fed, etc.

I like my setup, that is for sure !!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=448915&page=2

Kevin

wilserbrewer said:

I would suggest keeping your proposed BIAB rig simple, perhaps insulating rather than recircing w/ a pump and do simple infusions....no pump and lines to clean saves time, and with a little experience single infusion works fine IME.

Click to expand...

+1

That is why I use a stir motor and an immersion chiller... rinse them off and you are done till the next time.

I started with single vessel extract, then went to partial mash, then 3 vessel. After a move, started BIAB because I lost some of my stuff. Been using that method for a few years and now moving back into 3 vessel electric. I am going back to 3 vessel so I can run a HERMS and work on keeping my mash temperature more exactly. I brewed the same beer 3 times in a row, hit all my numbers but could not get them exactly the same in taste. The notes I kept showed differences in mash temp heat losses. I did not note ambient temps but I think that was changing my loss rate and trying to fire up the burner I sometimes overshot temp. Consistency in mash temp is what I am after.

wilserbrewer said:

How big is your current kettle? How big is the kettle above w/ the herms coil in it? Might be possible to reconfigure what you have? I would suggest keeping your proposed BIAB rig simple, perhaps insulating rather than recircing w/ a pump and do simple infusions....no pump and lines to clean saves time, and with a little experience single infusion works fine IME.

Click to expand...

The HLT and BK are each 10G. There's probably too many holes in my HLT to reconfigure it. I figured since I have the BoilCoil and controller I should use them to recirculate. Maybe I could use the HLT after all and just plug the two holes that I currently have the HERMS coil installed in. If I then had some sort of basket to fit above the BoilCoil, I could probably pull it off with minimal investment... at least to try it out!

I started with extract as most, built a 3 vessel Herms system, built a BIAbasket system. They were all fun and produced fine beer. Though now all I use is my cooler and SS kettle - no sparge, add a bit of extra grain for efficiency...love it. Process for me has never been easier and beer is great. Feel like its almost the best of both worlds.

Started off with Mr. Beer (a Christmas gift), moved quickly to 5g extract batches, then AG in a chest cooler mash tun and finally to my current system - single 15g keggle recirculating E-BIAB with PID controlled 5500W element.

Gotta love the convenience of BIAB combined with the precise mash temp control + consistency. Keggle, control box, pump and plate chiller all fits nicely on a re-purposed gas grill cart so that it has a fairly small footprint in my garage.

BrotherGrim said:

I started with single vessel extract, then went to partial mash, then 3 vessel. After a move, started BIAB because I lost some of my stuff. Been using that method for a few years and now moving back into 3 vessel electric. I am going back to 3 vessel so I can run a HERMS and work on keeping my mash temperature more exactly. I brewed the same beer 3 times in a row, hit all my numbers but could not get them exactly the same in taste. The notes I kept showed differences in mash temp heat losses. I did not note ambient temps but I think that was changing my loss rate and trying to fire up the burner I sometimes overshot temp. Consistency in mash temp is what I am after.

Click to expand...

Have you looked into a recirculating BIAB for your e-brew setup? Basically a RIMS, but with the element in the BK rather than an external tube. With this you get precise temp control, and a smaller footprint.

Brew on

doug293cz said:

Have you looked into a recirculating BIAB for your e-brew setup? Basically a RIMS, but with the element in the BK rather than an external tube. With this you get precise temp control, and a smaller footprint.

Brew on

Click to expand...

I looked at it, and was originally going to go that way, but I am getting more involved with some of the other local brewers and it will be easier to go to back to back brews with a 3 vessel system and it will also allow me to brew 10 gallon batches if I choose. Nothing against the BIAB option, which I will still be able to do, but more options.

BigFloyd said:

Started off with Mr. Beer (a Christmas gift), moved quickly to 5g extract batches, then AG in a chest cooler mash tun and finally to my current system - single 15g keggle recirculating E-BIAB with PID controlled 5500W element.

Gotta love the convenience of BIAB combined with the precise mash temp control + consistency. Keggle, control box, pump and plate chiller all fits nicely on a re-purposed gas grill cart so that it has a fairly small footprint in my garage.

Click to expand...

Any chance for a pic? I'm in the planning stage of a plywood cart and never thought of a grill cart. They're always laying about and should be decently sturdy. Love to see your set up.

BrotherGrim said:

I looked at it, and was originally going to go that way, but I am getting more involved with some of the other local brewers and it will be easier to go to back to back brews with a 3 vessel system and it will also allow me to brew 10 gallon batches if I choose. Nothing against the BIAB option, which I will still be able to do, but more options.

Click to expand...

Looks like you're making the right trade off. Back to back batches is the one indisputable advantage of 3 vessel over single vessel (at least AFAIK), so if you want to do back to back, then BIAB may not be right for you. 10 gal batches aren't a problem with BIAB if you have a decent pulley arrangement.

Brew on

I routinely brew 10 gal BIAB using a coleman cooler as a mashtun. The mash tun is 2 feet off the floor which makes it easy to lift the bag and sparge. I drain into a 20 qt pot and then dump this into my 15 gal boil kettle. I like this method as I can mash indoors where its warm and then carry the wort to the boil kettle outside for the boil. I tried the single vessel BIAB method and had a heck of a time draining the bag and had to complete the entire process outside where it gets darn cold here in winter. I don't hang the bag at all now, I do 2 X 10 min batch sparges and force out the easy to get wort with a pot lid at the end of the sparge process, I think I am around 78% efficiency.

doug293cz said:

Looks like you're making the right trade off. Back to back batches is the one indisputable advantage of 3 vessel over single vessel (at least AFAIK), so if you want to do back to back, then BIAB may not be right for you. 10 gal batches aren't a problem with BIAB if you have a decent pulley arrangement.



Brew on

Click to expand...

Well, with only 2 vessels you can not only do two batches back to back BIAB, but you can do two batches simultaneously vs 3v back to back.

Well, maybe staggered to account for chilling limitations.

Sorry double post

wilserbrewer said:

Well, with only 2 vessels you can not only do two batches back to back BIAB, but you can do two batches simultaneously vs 3v back to back.

Well, maybe staggered to account for chilling limitations.

Click to expand...

Let's see:
Maybe my poorly planned pot upgrade path has a silver lining. All I need is another burner, and I can do simultaneous batches. I was looking for an excuse to upgrade my SQ14 burner to a KAB4.

Thanks wilser

Brew on

OkanaganMike said:

Any chance for a pic? I'm in the planning stage of a plywood cart and never thought of a grill cart. They're always laying about and should be decently sturdy. Love to see your set up.

Click to expand...

Here you go -

Because 35 lbs of grain gets heavy after mash. Not to mention you can BIAB if you want, anytime. After you have your 3v system.

wilserbrewer said:

Well, with only 2 vessels you can not only do two batches back to back BIAB, but you can do two batches simultaneously vs 3v back to back.

Well, maybe staggered to account for chilling limitations.

Click to expand...

You can also do 3 batches simultaneously if you already have 3V!!!

Truth is for me though at this point...if I could go back Id get the bigass Breaumeister and be done...basically BIAB.

normonster said:

You can also do 3 batches simultaneously if you already have 3V!!!

Click to expand...

I want to see someone try to boil in their plastic cooler.

Brew on

normonster said:

Because 35 lbs of grain gets heavy after mash. Not to mention you can BIAB if you want, anytime. After you have your 3v system.

Click to expand...

I have a pully setup good for up to 150lbs mounted to the garage ceiling for lifting the bag and letting it drain into the kettle. $24 well spent.

I do BIAB on my stovetop and love it. I don't love the inconsistencies I get with efficiency, but I've been correcting with DME based on the pre-boil gravity to help shore that up. Not the most cost-effective thing ever, but it ends up working. I have tried crushing more grain but got tired of playing the guessing game with that rather than just adding in DME and hitting my intended OG.

normonster said:

Because 35 lbs of grain gets heavy after mash.

Click to expand...

Pulleys were invented thousands of years ago. If you know how to use them, 35 lbs of wet grain will feel like five lbs.

normonster said:

Not to mention you can BIAB if you want, anytime. After you have your 3v system.

Click to expand...

But, I can BIAB with one pot and one burner, and not spend the money on two more vessels and another burner. And, I don't have to store and set up all that extra equipment. But, if it makes you happy, go for it.

Brew on

doug293cz said:

I want to see someone try to boil in their plastic cooler.



Brew on

Click to expand...

Who the heck would use a cooler at all? &#128521;

doug293cz said:

Pulleys were invented thousands of years ago. If you know how to use them, 35 lbs of wet grain will feel like five lbs.







But, I can BIAB with one pot and one burner, and not spend the money on two more vessels and another burner. And, I don't have to store and set up all that extra equipment. But, if it makes you happy, go for it.



Brew on

Click to expand...

Too late for me...money invested. 3 burners, 3 SS kettles. Of course I can just pull out one of each and BIAB if I want, and actually when it comes time to clean up I sometimes consider it!

On the other hand, regardless of when they were invented, if you're going to be rigging up pullys you may as well go 3v.

normonster said:

Who the heck would use a cooler at all? &#128521;

Click to expand...

Lots of (most judging by posts I have read in this forum) 3 vessel brewers. But then you knew that didn't you.

Brew on

normonster said:

On the other hand, regardless of when they were invented, if you're going to be rigging up pullys you may as well go 3v.

Click to expand...

Really? Rigging a pulley above a pot is trivial in most cases. It only gets a little involved if you brew indoors, and have a steam hood over the center of your pot.

Brew on

When I was extract brewing I also steeped specialty malts or mini mashed as some call it. That mini mashing process was TIRING! Seriously it wore me out... holding up a couple pounds of grains to let them drain!

I couldn't ever see myself holding up the grains for a WHOLE BATCH!!!

So I bought a cooler and switched to AG ( ;

JLeuck64 said:

I couldn't ever see myself holding up the grains for a WHOLE BATCH!!!

So I bought a cooler and switched to AG ( ;

Click to expand...

Neither could I, so I bought a pulley

Brew on

doug293cz said:

Lots of (most judging by posts I have read in this forum) 3 vessel brewers. But then you knew that didn't you.



Brew on

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was just kidding. I considered it my self but the cost of those coolers is not low. I figured double it and have matching SS kettles. I'll admit I enjoy the aesthetic appeal of my rig... &#128513;

I'd vote, but I can't - my option isn't there. I do both 3 vessel (stand with 3 keggles, direct fire insulated mash tun, gravity from HLT, pump for recirc and transfer) and a 10-gallon BIAB. At some point I may upgrade to a 15-gallon BIAB so I can do higher gravity no-sparge batches. I love brewing both ways, but if I have to transport my system, like for Big Brew in May 2, I BIAB.

Black Island Brewer said:

I'd vote, but I can't - my option isn't there. I do both 3 vessel (stand with 3 keggles, direct fire insulated mash tun, gravity from HLT, pump for recirc and transfer) and a 10-gallon BIAB. At some point I may upgrade to a 15-gallon BIAB so I can do higher gravity no-sparge batches. I love brewing both ways, but if I have to transport my system, like for Big Brew in May 2, I BIAB.

Click to expand...

What kind of benefit can one expect with the no sparge approach?