OP
OP
With some luck we will have a couple good beers for you to sample by mid summer.
Squam Lakes Brewery with Pictures
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With some luck we will have a couple good beers for you to sample by mid summer.
OP
OP
Added the bottle washer
DubbelDach
Well-Known Member
Brilliant... a dedicated bottle washer spout. I've got a QD on mine, but this truly trumps that! Great work!
OP
OP
Got the bottle bucket back up and this time its set up to work over the sink.
We will shorten up the tube a bit so we can leave the bottle filling while putting a cap on the previous bottle. In this way the filler almost never stops.
We will shorten up the tube a bit so we can leave the bottle filling while putting a cap on the previous bottle. In this way the filler almost never stops.
OP
OP
Ran another test with the new MT. This time we doubled up on the split plastic tubing around the edges of the false bottom and used 1/4 in holes in the pex tube. It worked great. We also tested running the system in a RIMS form by draining off into our little 15 gallon kettle setting the desired mash temp and pumping back to the MT. It worked but is it worth all the extra hassle ?
I am very pleased with the equipment. I've made a number of batches and they all have come out well. The Brewmation control panel and elements have worked perfectly so far. No complaints on that end.
There are a few things I need to work on before I have a dream brewery. I am still collecting the wort during the sparge in 5 gal buckets which I manually dump into the kettle. Ideally I would have two peristaltic pumps running at the same rate; one bringing hot sparge water to the top of my mash tun and the other bringing the runnings from the mash tun to the boil kettle. With this setup I could avoid babysitting the brewery during the sparge. Its on my list of things to do, but I've been preoccupied with other things (like the paperwork for my Brewer's Notice) and haven't gotten around to it yet.
If you can think of any specific questions I'd love to go into more detail. Without re-reading the thread I just can't think of what I've whats new and what I've already mentioned. I'm off to bed now, I'll check back tomorrow.
There are a few things I need to work on before I have a dream brewery. I am still collecting the wort during the sparge in 5 gal buckets which I manually dump into the kettle. Ideally I would have two peristaltic pumps running at the same rate; one bringing hot sparge water to the top of my mash tun and the other bringing the runnings from the mash tun to the boil kettle. With this setup I could avoid babysitting the brewery during the sparge. Its on my list of things to do, but I've been preoccupied with other things (like the paperwork for my Brewer's Notice) and haven't gotten around to it yet.
If you can think of any specific questions I'd love to go into more detail. Without re-reading the thread I just can't think of what I've whats new and what I've already mentioned. I'm off to bed now, I'll check back tomorrow.
Djlunchbox
Well-Known Member
three things:
i'm totally ripping off your bottle washer idea, it's the answer i needed. mines still sitting in the bag.
brew day at your place this summer
how did you figure out who to talk to about getting it all legal for sale?
i'm totally ripping off your bottle washer idea, it's the answer i needed. mines still sitting in the bag.
brew day at your place this summer
how did you figure out who to talk to about getting it all legal for sale?
OP
OP
Djlunchbox
I see in your threads you are an extract brewer. You probably should be headed in the all grain direction but should start out with a simple 5-10 gallon system. When you move up into 1bb batches (that would be a about 15 cases of 22oz bottles) things get more expensive and more complicated.
Brewing is fun and its even more fun to share our brews with friends and family. Lets get you into a small all grain set up next. This HBT site is great for learning about different types of systems.
Good luck
I see in your threads you are an extract brewer. You probably should be headed in the all grain direction but should start out with a simple 5-10 gallon system. When you move up into 1bb batches (that would be a about 15 cases of 22oz bottles) things get more expensive and more complicated.
Brewing is fun and its even more fun to share our brews with friends and family. Lets get you into a small all grain set up next. This HBT site is great for learning about different types of systems.
Good luck
three things:
i'm totally ripping off your bottle washer idea, it's the answer i needed. mines still sitting in the bag.
brew day at your place this summer
how did you figure out who to talk to about getting it all legal for sale?
Yeah, the bottle washer is a must have, especially considering the number of bottles I clean on a regular basis.
You're more than welcome to drop by and check out a brew day whenever you want. Just shoot me an email when you could come and I'll let you know if I'm brewing that weekend and give you directions.
Getting it all legal is a bit of a pain. The first step is to get a Brewer's Notice, which means you have to submit all the forms located on this page http://www.ttb.gov/beer/qualify.shtml , including a $1000 (minimum) brewer's bond. Then you need state approval, labels approved, and some other stuff as well. They have it set up so its not practical for a small time homebrewer to sell their beer.
OP
OP
Ok
Now the thread is alive again I will post a couple new pictures
the first picture is a Blichmann 42 gallon conical which is good for a 30-35 gallon brew.
the second picture is a work in process. Its a 35 gallon ss used vessel that I will retro fit to make either a bright tank or a long term storage fermenator.
the last item is a 55 gallon rubber made barrel that we will use as a fermenator if everything else is full. So far we only used it once and it did the job very nicely for a big batch of wheat.
Now the thread is alive again I will post a couple new pictures
the first picture is a Blichmann 42 gallon conical which is good for a 30-35 gallon brew.
the second picture is a work in process. Its a 35 gallon ss used vessel that I will retro fit to make either a bright tank or a long term storage fermenator.
the last item is a 55 gallon rubber made barrel that we will use as a fermenator if everything else is full. So far we only used it once and it did the job very nicely for a big batch of wheat.
klyph
Well-Known Member
Wow, I am jealous of your cost of production. I paid nearly that for my 5 gallon batch of Barleywine ingredients, and you're making ten times the beer.
Well, if I was making barleywine my costs would be more, and I'm not quite making ten times the amount. I brewed a 35 gallon batch of O.G. 1.048 Amber Ale on Sunday and my costs were as follows;
40 lbs of Pearl Malt @ $35 per 55lb sack = $25.50
17 lbs of specialty grains @ $0.85/lb = $14.50
close to a pound of hops for about $10 via Hops Direct
100g of Mauribrew Ale yeast at $27/500g package plus shipping about $4 per batch
electric heat for the strike and sparge water plus 60 minute boil about $5
whirlfloc, salt additions, sanitizer, cleaner, probably about $5
So unless I'm missing something, that batch cost me around $64. It would probably be about twice that to make a barleywine. Of course, that's ignoring all the equipment costs / wear and tear which would significantly increase my per batch costs. On the low end I could say the beer works out to $1.83 per gallon (17 cents per 12oz beer), or I could factor in the equipment and I wouldn't even want to try to calculate the per beer costs. Over the long term though, its definitely a significant savings over doing extract batches.
40 lbs of Pearl Malt @ $35 per 55lb sack = $25.50
17 lbs of specialty grains @ $0.85/lb = $14.50
close to a pound of hops for about $10 via Hops Direct
100g of Mauribrew Ale yeast at $27/500g package plus shipping about $4 per batch
electric heat for the strike and sparge water plus 60 minute boil about $5
whirlfloc, salt additions, sanitizer, cleaner, probably about $5
So unless I'm missing something, that batch cost me around $64. It would probably be about twice that to make a barleywine. Of course, that's ignoring all the equipment costs / wear and tear which would significantly increase my per batch costs. On the low end I could say the beer works out to $1.83 per gallon (17 cents per 12oz beer), or I could factor in the equipment and I wouldn't even want to try to calculate the per beer costs. Over the long term though, its definitely a significant savings over doing extract batches.
klyph
Well-Known Member
Yes, but my cost is like $.50 per 12 oz beer. It's geographical: A 55lb bag of base malt will cost me about 50 dollars. Specialty grains are sold at 4 dollars a pound. Hops are sold at 5 dollars an ounce. Ordering online means cheaper prices, but the shipping brings it almost back up to where it is locally. I suppose I could buy a lot at once, but I don't have the storage space for 200 lbs of grain and 10 lbs of hops, nor can I drop all that money at once...
Sorry for the rant, love the thread, You guys probably have the most attainable 1bbl system I've seen.
Sorry for the rant, love the thread, You guys probably have the most attainable 1bbl system I've seen.
Djlunchbox
Well-Known Member
we'll have to do that some time for sure
thanks for the offeroh yes, this site is great. i've learned a ton since i've signed up. i'm not intrested in starting to sell my stuff, i was just curious as to how hard it was to get started doing it.
as for the all grain, i'm already on it, just need time :rockin:
i have to clean the garage first so i have some room. we just moved a few months ago and i haven't had time.
the other fermenter you have, is that an old medical fermenter? i've come across a few online doing searches. the taller one, not the blichmann.
The taller tank I found here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/35-gallon-fermenter-bright-tank-151874/ .
"The tanks have been disassembled from systems designed for fermenting non-pathogenic, bio-chemical solutions for agricultural applications and pharmaceutical manufacturing."
"The tanks have been disassembled from systems designed for fermenting non-pathogenic, bio-chemical solutions for agricultural applications and pharmaceutical manufacturing."
My application packet for a Brewers Notice was received by the TTB on February 19th. I spoke with them recently on the phone and was told that they have 95 days from that date to review the application and get back to me. Once I have the Brewers Notice I can then apply to the New Hampshire Liquor Commission. In the meantime I'm working on getting labels designed so I can get those pre-approved and hit the road running once the necessary governmental approvals come in. If everything goes as planned I should be selling beer directly to local stores sometime this summer. Of course, that's assuming everything I submitted is perfect (which may be a pretty big assumption).
As for selling excess beer, it may or may not be possible and/or practical. First, if your brewery is in or attached to your home residence, you're out of luck. If you brew in a detached garage or other structure located on your property, it MAY be possible, depending on your local town zoning laws and whatnot. Assuming you comply with the necessary laws, the next question is whether or not it will be practical. You'll have to put up a $1000 brewers bond, get incorporated, set up a business account, and be willing to spend the time dealing with all the paperwork and taxes. It all depends on how much "excess" beer you're talking about. An extra five or ten gallons here or there might not be worth the effort, but if you like to brew all the time, I would definitely look into it. This link should help you get started http://www.ttb.gov/beer/qualify.shtml . Good luck.
Oktober
Active Member
Very cool - definately keep us up to date as your progress through the TTB red-tape.
-Okt
-Okt
MikeRLynch
Well-Known Member
I skimmed the thread real quick, but didn't see this question:
How long does it take you to get your water up to temp with 2 5000k elements in the HLT? I imagine it wouldn't take too long to get the BK up and going, seeing as how you're pumping 170ish degree water in there to begin with. But I'm wondering how long it takes for it to go from the 50ish degree water to 160 or so for mashing.
How long does it take you to get your water up to temp with 2 5000k elements in the HLT? I imagine it wouldn't take too long to get the BK up and going, seeing as how you're pumping 170ish degree water in there to begin with. But I'm wondering how long it takes for it to go from the 50ish degree water to 160 or so for mashing.
I cheat a bit. I pump hot water from the house (which is heated by our wood boiler) at around 120 degrees into my HLT to start. From there I guess it takes around 30 minutes or so to get up to strike temp, but I honestly have never timed it. Then once the boil kettle has 17 gallons in it, the float valve kicks in on and starts to heat the wort. By the time I have finished collecting 35-40 gallons of wort, the kettle is up in the 180s and then its about 30 minutes to a rolling boil. During that time I scoop out the spent grains from the mash tun into 7 gallon buckets and lug them off into the nearby woods, and otherwise start to clean up. Overall, its definitely less work to make a barrel of beer with my electric brew kettle than it was to make 10 gallons using my old banjo burner, thanks in no small part to my dual peristaltic pumps. They take care of the recirculating, sparging, and other liquid transfers whereas before I did everything by hand using buckets. I'm in the middle of brewing up a barrel of American Wheat today and its been one of the easiest brews days I've ever had.
MikeRLynch
Well-Known Member
Pumps are certainly the way to go, we're designing ours with two at least.
Thanks for the info on the times, I think we may have to go a bit differently with ours, we have a 120 gal HLT that we were going to use for mashing, sparging, and cleanup. The two elements aren't going to be enough to get it up to temp in a timely fashion, so we're going to have to go with more elements, or insulate the tun.
You guys don't insulate those 55 gal buckets, how well do they hold temps? Or are you using a rims system?
Thanks for the info on the times, I think we may have to go a bit differently with ours, we have a 120 gal HLT that we were going to use for mashing, sparging, and cleanup. The two elements aren't going to be enough to get it up to temp in a timely fashion, so we're going to have to go with more elements, or insulate the tun.
You guys don't insulate those 55 gal buckets, how well do they hold temps? Or are you using a rims system?
No rims, although we did consider it. The 55 gallon buckets do a fairly good job of holding the heat, they might lose a couple degrees an hour. My old 10 gallon Igloo cooler didn't lose any temp at all, so obviously these buckets aren't as good at holding heat. But when it comes to repeatability, I'm content. If I mash at 152 and it ends up at 150, it will do the same thing next time. So when it comes time to sell my beer I'm confident I can repeat any brew. The other thing is that when I'm mashing 70-100 lbs of grain at a time, that's a lot of mass to cool down. My Thermapen doesn't penetrate to the center of the mash where I suspect the temp holds constant. The edges that are exposed to the uninsulated plastic are likely the only areas that experience that slight temp drop. Its not a perfect setup, but it works for me.
If you're concerned with it taking too long to heat your strike water, you might consider filling up your water the night before and setting a timer to start heating it a couple hours before you show up to brew. This wouldn't solve your problem of waiting for your boil kettle to heat up, but it would shorten your brew day considerably. Just a thought.
MikeRLynch
Well-Known Member
True, I'm hoping though with some water heater insulation (basically just fiberglass in a waterproof plastic sheet) We can get the elements we have to be more efficient. Right now I was worried about having to insulate our mashtun too, but if you only experience a degree or two drop in plastic, I can't imagine 70-100 lbs of grain dropping much more than that in a metal tank. Besides, it'd be a shame covering up all that beautiful steel
Thanks so much for posting this stuff guys, and keep us updated on the legal side too!
Thanks so much for posting this stuff guys, and keep us updated on the legal side too!
I received my Brewer's Notice in the mail today! 
Now I just need to apply to the NH Liquor Commission for my Beverage Manufactures License and get my labels approved. I could be selling beer by the end of next month if all goes as planned. They received my application on February 19, 2010 and the date it was approved is May 6, 2010. That's 76 days. Much quicker than I was expecting. As you can imagine, I'm thrilled :rockin:
Now I just need to apply to the NH Liquor Commission for my Beverage Manufactures License and get my labels approved. I could be selling beer by the end of next month if all goes as planned. They received my application on February 19, 2010 and the date it was approved is May 6, 2010. That's 76 days. Much quicker than I was expecting. As you can imagine, I'm thrilled :rockin:
Rhoman
Active Member
Congratulations! I work with the TTB on a daily basis and I know they aren't always the easiest to deal with (we move large volumes of ethanol, so they've got their eyes on us all the time).
One question - while browsing through the CFR I thought that I read that a brewery can't be located in a dwelling. How are you getting around this given the location of your system? Haven't most HomeBrewTalkers gone pro had to build detached garages and such?
Beautiful set up btw - I'm jealous.
One question - while browsing through the CFR I thought that I read that a brewery can't be located in a dwelling. How are you getting around this given the location of your system? Haven't most HomeBrewTalkers gone pro had to build detached garages and such?
Beautiful set up btw - I'm jealous.
The brewery is not located in a dwelling. Its located in a barn, which is pretty much the same thing as a detached garage as far as the law is concerned. I did have to apply for a variance due to the residential setting, but that was pretty simple. The TTB emailed me a template, I changed one paragraph, signed it, and sent it back. If you brew in your house I think there is zero chance you will be approved for a Brewer's Notice.
Merg
Member
Just wanted to say that I'm impressed and good luck. My uncle has a cabin near South Wentworth, NH, and we go boating on Big Squam. I can't wait to give your beer a try next time we get up there.
OP
OP
got our final State of NH approval so we are now off and brewing
should have something to sell in 6-7 weeks
should have something to sell in 6-7 weeks
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nie work! congrats on the new setup and state approval
That is great to hear. We are filling out our paperwork now. Lucky for me I am not doing it. My partner is handling all that stuff. I am tasked with building the system and brewing the beer.
We hope to have it all submitted sometime in july.
This comment cracked me up.
You totally remodeled an underground meat butchering/hanging room into a kick-ass 1 barrel electric brewery, but you couldn't figure out how to pump from the MLT to the kettle?
This comment cracked me up.
You totally remodeled an underground meat butchering/hanging room into a kick-ass 1 barrel electric brewery, but you couldn't figure out how to pump from the MLT to the kettle?
Haha. Actually, we decided to use a dual peristaltic pump to recirculate the mash, transfer sparge water, and pump to the kettle. Its just that while I was looking for the right pump to do the job, I didn't see any reason to let the equipment sit unused. Filling buckets was a temporary measure. When I brewed my first commercial batch on Tuesday it was a breeze. I turned on the pumps to start the sparge and an hour later my kettle was full of delicious wort.
Good luck with everything. My only suggestion is that if you're trying to get licensed ASAP, be proactive both before and after submitting the paperwork. Have your partner ask the licensing specialists any questions they might have before you submit the paperwork, and then follow up afterwards to find out if they need anything else. I found they are very helpful on the phone, but it seemed like they tended to wait for my call to tell me what they needed rather than call me up as soon as they found out. That was just my experience. I hope it goes smoothly
cruelkix
Well-Known Member
I've read this thread a few times now. Congrats and good luck! That is an awesome 1 BBL system.
Do you pay the $1000 federal charge every year or is it a one time hit and then you just pay taxes on everything yu make? Same with State. One time hit or is it a yearly expense? (I know its $300 in Colorado).
Again, Good luck and happy brewing!
Do you pay the $1000 federal charge every year or is it a one time hit and then you just pay taxes on everything yu make? Same with State. One time hit or is it a yearly expense? (I know its $300 in Colorado).
Again, Good luck and happy brewing!
The $1000 brewers bond is a one time hit (that's the minimum bond amount they accept). The bond has to be able to cover the federal taxes for a tax period (either bi-weekly or quarterly), so if I expanded and was approaching that number I would have to increase the bond amount. With my current setup, even if I ramped up production and was somehow able to make 10 barrels a month (extremely unlikely), I would still only need $210 worth of bond coverage and that's if I was paying quarterly. The bond needs to be renewed every four years. If I ever fold up shop, I should get my bond money back.
The fee for a New Hampshire Beverage Manufacturer's License is $100 a month, paid yearly. It would be tough for a 5 gallon brewer to keep his head above water, and I suspect that might have something to do with the fee.
The state tax is currently at 30 cents per gallon, due on the 10th of the month. Federal tax is $7 per barrel (around 23 cents per gallon).
cruelkix
Well-Known Member
Thanks Jumbo, you laid that out very understandably. That sucks that its costing you $100 a month man. That is steep. Factor in the $1200 a year on top of the taxes and you have to be cranking out some pretty serious quantities to make a buck!
Is that a float switch on the right? Do you have a link or anything to where you bought it?
OP
OP
Walker
We got the float switch and the complete conversion from Brewmation.
If you are going electric you want the float switch. 10-20 seconds and you fry the elements
for what its worth
I am currently sitting in Beijing China and the local beer is as poor as it gets. cant wait to get home and have a real on
We got the float switch and the complete conversion from Brewmation.
If you are going electric you want the float switch. 10-20 seconds and you fry the elements
for what its worth
I am currently sitting in Beijing China and the local beer is as poor as it gets. cant wait to get home and have a real on
