Rio vs LorAnn

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morval

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What is the difference Pros/Cons between the two concentrates besides Rio being four times the size and half the cost? I'm guessing you need to use more of the Rio? Praire Moon's website is great, lots of recipes and stuff. With the LorAnn flavourings I would probably need to do more experimenting I guess.

Thanks,

Konrad
 
Lorann's is meant to be a concentrated extract. Many of them are billed as 100% essential oils. So where you would use 1 oz of extract in a recipe, you would use 1/4 to 1/2 oz of their flavor oils. I'm also not sure if any of these are water soluble. If you're tinkering with a recipe like the OpenCola recipe, then these are probably what you are looking for. A number of them are natural flavorings, some are N&A, I'm not sure if there are any that are just artificial.

Rio's concentrates are meant to be a standardized concentrated syrup. So you know that 1 oz of banana concentrate will make 1 gallon of banana syrup just the same as 1 oz of orange concentrate will make 1 gallon of orange syrup. That might not necessarily be the case with Lorann. If you're looking for an easy mix concentrate, then Rio is probably the route you want to go. Since nothing I can find lists their concentrates' ingredients, I would guess that these are all artificial flavors or N&A at best.
 
Lorann's is meant to be a concentrated extract. Many of them are billed as 100% essential oils. So where you would use 1 oz of extract in a recipe, you would use 1/4 to 1/2 oz of their flavor oils. I'm also not sure if any of these are water soluble. If you're tinkering with a recipe like the OpenCola recipe, then these are probably what you are looking for. A number of them are natural flavorings, some are N&A, I'm not sure if there are any that are just artificial.

Rio's concentrates are meant to be a standardized concentrated syrup. So you know that 1 oz of banana concentrate will make 1 gallon of banana syrup just the same as 1 oz of orange concentrate will make 1 gallon of orange syrup. That might not necessarily be the case with Lorann. If you're looking for an easy mix concentrate, then Rio is probably the route you want to go. Since nothing I can find lists their concentrates' ingredients, I would guess that these are all artificial flavors or N&A at best.

Thanks for the very good answer. Gets me to understanding the difference a bit better.

I'm guessing LorAnn's would be more useful for flavouring baked goods and Rio would be more useful with anything liquid. But LorAnn's can still work with liquids, but some might not be water soluble as I've read somewhere else as well.

I'm wanting to make my own soda's and icecream with the sugar I choose.

I think I'll give both a try and see how I like them. Too bad Rio shipped to Canada costs more than the actual product, 12 flavours cost around $35, shipping is $40. :( Probably going to work out to over $7 a bottle after taxes and border stuff!
 
LorAnn does make a line of flavors especially designed for beverages and ice cream, called LorAnn Fountain Flavors. You can get the best price from Netrition:

http://www.netrition.com/lorann_oils_flavor_fountain_flavorings.html

Or if you buy straight from the LorAnn website, they are more expensive, but they have a greater variety of flavors available (especially in the quart size):

http://shop.lorannoils.com/templates/group_ProductSelect.aspx?GroupGuid=80

On a per ounce basis, they're definitely more expensive than Rio, but perhaps the flavor is better and it might be worth it to some people. I've been meaning to try some of the LorAnn Fountain Flavors myself, but haven't gotten around to it yet.
 
If the oil won't mix with water, soft drink companies deal with this by using an emulsifier like gum arabic/Acacia gum.
 
Going by the list of ingredients provided by Netrition, the LorAnn Fountain Flavors do not contain any oils.
 
These flavors are a special, separate line that was developed to use with beverages and ice cream. Here is a list of ingredients:

http://www.netrition.com/lorann_oils_flavor_fountain_flavorings.html#NUTFACTS

I suppose one of us could call or email them to get a definitive answer, but I do not believe there are any oils in the Fountain Flavor line.

What makes you think there's no oils in those flavors? In fact, the presence of xanthan gum implies that there is. The oils would make up many of the "natural and artificial flavors."
 
What makes you think there's no oils in those flavors? In fact, the presence of xanthan gum implies that there is. The oils would make up many of the "natural and artificial flavors."

Xanthan gum is a thickener, not an emulsifier. It's presence does not necessarily imply that there are oils present.

The presence of oil soluble flavors (not all flavors are oil based) in a product like this may be a moot point if they are formulated for use in beverages.
 
Well, LorAnn responded quickly to my email, though I don't think they really answered the question.

My email:

Do the "Flavor Fountain" flavors contain any oils? Or are they completely water soluble? For example, if I wanted to use one of the "Flavor Fountain" flavors with my Soda Stream to make a soft drink, would I need to use an emulsifier?

LorAnn's response:

Thank you for contacting LorAnn Oils. The flavor fountains are water soluble.

So there you have it. Even if there are oils present, I should think they would only be in very small amounts. It always seemed to me that making the flavors water soluble was the whole point of coming up with an entirely separate line of flavors to use in beverages and ice cream. But whatever. I'm planning to try some of these flavors with my Soda Stream soon, and I ain't gonna use any emulsifiers. YMMV.
 
Well, LorAnn responded quickly to my email, though I don't think they really answered the question.

My email:

Do the "Flavor Fountain" flavors contain any oils? Or are they completely water soluble? For example, if I wanted to use one of the "Flavor Fountain" flavors with my Soda Stream to make a soft drink, would I need to use an emulsifier?

LorAnn's response:

Thank you for contacting LorAnn Oils. The flavor fountains are water soluble.

So there you have it. Even if there are oils present, I should think they would only be in very small amounts. It always seemed to me that making the flavors water soluble was the whole point of coming up with an entirely separate line of flavors to use in beverages and ice cream. But whatever. I'm planning to try some of these flavors with my Soda Stream soon, and I ain't gonna use any emulsifiers. YMMV.

They're soluble because they already use an emulsifier, xanthan gum.
 
Xanthan gum is not an emulsifier, strictly speaking. Typically it is used as a thickening agent or a stabilizer. So its presence in the fountain flavors is not ipso facto proof that oils are present in the product. But, whatever dude. The main point is, the fountain flavors can be used to make soda without having to use an emulsifier.
 
Xanthan gum is not an emulsifier, strictly speaking. Typically it is used as a thickening agent or a stabilizer. So its presence in the fountain flavors is not ipso facto proof that oils are present in the product. But, whatever dude. The main point is, the fountain flavors can be used to make soda without having to use an emulsifier.

An emulsifier IS a stabilizer.

Could you tell us what other reason they'd have to use it?

I guarantee you that many of these flavors are oils. Oils are not miscible (please, look that up) with water. Hence, they add something in to stabilize it in the manner of emulsification.

This argument is utterly pointless because the end result is the same. Because the extracts already contain an emulsifier, they will work just fine in water.
 
So you "guarantee" that they must contain oils, huh?

I wrote to LorAnn again, asking them to clarify. Here is their response:

You are very much correct! There are no oils in our flavor fountains. They contain water. The xanthan gum acts in this product as a thickening agent. If you have certain flavors you are interested in, I can send you the product specifications. These reports will list out all the ingredients, and you can see clearly there is water in them, and no oil. If you would like to provide that list of flavors I can work on those reports for you this morning. If you need further assistance, please let me know.

Thank you,
Michelle L Ruiz
Customer Service
LorAnn Oils, Inc.
Ph: (517) 882-0215
Toll Free: (800) 862-8620
Fax: (517) 882-0507
www.LorAnnOils.com


BTW, I already know what "miscible" means, but thank you for patronizing me.
 
"they contain water" would indicate they're talking about the solvent. MANY OF THESE FLAVORS ARE ESSENTIAL OILS.

What a pointless ****ing argument. Have fun.
 
Here is an email straight from LorAnn, saying point blank -- twice -- that there is NO OIL whatsoever in this product, and that the xanthan gum is used strictly as a THICKENING AGENT, not an emulsifier as you kept insisting, and you still can't concede that you were just wrong about this.

Again I say, whatever. Thanks for playing.
 
Here is an email straight from LorAnn, saying point blank -- twice -- that there is NO OIL whatsoever in this product, and that the xanthan gum is used strictly as a THICKENING AGENT, not an emulsifier as you kept insisting, and you still can't concede that you were just wrong about this.

Again I say, whatever. Thanks for playing.

I second that motion.
 
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