Caramel Malt vs Decoction mash

My local brewer once told me that because of the caramel malts that are available today, there is no need to do decoction mashes any more.

My question is, if you are doing a decoction mash, is there any need to use caramel malt in the grain bill?

Yes, caramel malt imparts a flavor and color that has nothing to do with the mash style.

cefmel said:

My local brewer once told me that because of the caramel malts that are available today, there is no need to do decoction mashes any more.

My question is, if you are doing a decoction mash, is there any need to use caramel malt in the grain bill?

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There are really two questions here and whether or not you use caramel malt in a beer has nothing to do with decoction mashing, IMO. One of the main reasons for a traditional decoction mash was because of poor quality malt, base malt that is. The old time malts were not nearly as modified (well malted) as their modern counterparts. The three or four step traditional decoction schedule helped make up for that deficiency. The boils of a decoction mash also produce color and flavor compounds which is probably why the method is still used by its' adherents today. So with rare exception you don't need to do a decoction mash to convert today's malts but you may choose to do one for other reasons. If you do a decoction you could still use caramel malts to achieve whatever specific colors and flavors you may be after with the beer. There is a segment of the homebrewing community that discourages the use of decoction mashing saying in general that it provides no discernible positive results compared to single infusion mashing and is a waste of precious time. On the other hand adding Melanoidin malt to the grist in lieu of a decoction is often suggested by members of the same segment. Perhaps this is what was told to you. However, this viewpoint always puzzles me since if one believes a decoction achieves nothing why would you add another ingredient to replace something that you claim wasn't there in the first place?

Decoction mashing absolutely adds a characteristic to your beers, the question being whether it is or is not the same characteristic that you get from melanoiding malt. It's debatable, although for most of the decoction mashers I know, it's mostly about having fun with the tradition.

The character you get from decocting is more closely related to the character you get from kilned malts like Munich and melanoidin/dark Munich, not really the same as what you get from dark crystal malts. Malty/toasty, not so much sweet/fruity.

Hmm, I thought decoction was supposed to help with efficiency and texture/head, didn't know added to flavor. I still don't see how it could replace specialty malts though.

Decoctions ARE also supposed to help with retention (lots of starches are released as you boil), but there's a lot of melanoidin formation. It's amazing the difference in color between the main mash and the part that's been boiled.

the_bird said:

Decoctions ARE also supposed to help with retention (lots of starches are released as you boil), but there's a lot of melanoidin formation. It's amazing the difference in color between the main mash and the part that's been boiled.

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Word. My blonde doppelbock went from a predicted 6 SRM to about a 10-12 after a triple decoction. Not so blonde anymore.

Big Ed has it spot on. You won't know what the difference is until you try decoction for yourself. When you do, you may want to use a significant portion of undermodified malt in your grain bill, but not crystal, caramel, carafoam or similar products.

I have started doing a single decoction at mash out, using 50 % of the grist in order to get up to 170 deg mash out temperature. I'm not using any caramel malt for now, but I plan using it for future batches. I just want to see what the differences are and I love malt flavor produced by the melanoidins found in the caramel malts and the decoction process.

Word up on decoctions. My heffe has an amazing malty aftertaste brought out by the decoction. It causes some caramelization of the wort to occur.

I generally just take about 3 big scoops (from a 1 qt strainer) from the MLT and dump them into a pot, then add just a little water. Over about 20 minutes, I bring it to a boil then boil for 20 minutes. The slow raise in temps helps final conversions and the thick boil caramelizes those sugars. I then dump it back into the MLT and let it sit for about 10 minutes before sparging. The result is an unmistakeable malty characteristic to the brew.

Your hefe will love you for it.

cefmel said:

My local brewer once told me that because of the caramel malts that are available today, there is no need to do decoction mashes any more.

My question is, if you are doing a decoction mash, is there any need to use caramel malt in the grain bill?

Click to expand...

It depends on what you are trying to achieve. Decoction mashing, as noted by previous posters, will creat melanoidins and caramelize sugars so you will get some flavours you would associate with crystal malts. Will it be enough for what you are trying to achieve? Only experimentation will tell you.

GT

I started decocting after my 2nd all grain batch and have never looked back. For me it's a labor of love, and to me the beer benefits from it. Some think I am crazy, my wife hates it when I brew, but when I say it's brew day IT'S BREW DAY! I won't ever do it any other way again.