Backsweeten vs. stop early

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Zippox

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I am looking to make a cider that is a little sweet and carbonated and from what I have been reading it appears that most people ferment to completely dry, backsweeten, then bottle pasteurize.

1. Does this have any advantages or disadvantages over bottling right when the sweetness level is to your liking and then bottle pasteurize? Is one easier than the other really?

2. To confirm the necessary steps if I were to go the route of stopping the fermenting early, does this sound correct?
  • When the cider gets to the point I prefer (such as say 1.014), throw it in fridge to drop out the yeast.
  • Next day prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar
  • Put it in bottles, and keep trying them periodically the next day till the carb level is good
  • Go ahead and bottle pasteurize
 
Tagged for answers. I'm starting my first batch tomorrow morning with the same type of cider in mind. The plan was to ferment to completely dry, then prime with corn sugar and back sweeten with xylitol.
 
Mine has been going for about four or five days and as soon as it stops fermenting I plan on cold crashing the 4 gallons and then transferring to a secondary with a spigot for bottling, adding more apple juice concentrate for taste (a little sweet) and bottling. It's slowing down last I checked and as soon as my bottles get here that I ordered I'll be in business.
 
HAREEBROWNBEEST said:
Mine has been going for about four or five days and as soon as it stops fermenting I plan on cold crashing the 4 gallons and then transferring to a secondary with a spigot for bottling, adding more apple juice concentrate for taste (a little sweet) and bottling. It's slowing down last I checked and as soon as my bottles get here that I ordered I'll be in business.



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Almost there
 
Is it important for everything to come to room temperature before bottling? Or will the remaining yeast be able to carbonate it once the temp rises back up from being out of the fridge?
 
Zippox said:
Is it important for everything to come to room temperature before bottling? Or will the remaining yeast be able to carbonate it once the temp rises back up from being out of the fridge?

Not sure?
 
That's good we don't have to care about the temp stabilizing or anything.

So back to my original question, what are the benefits and disadvantages to stop early or let it go all the way and back sweeten?
 
I understand that part but I believe that both yield the same result, so I am curious on the pros and cons. Perhaps it might be easier to just let it go dry and add some concentrate before bottling. But I'd think that there would be pros to stopping early. One thing I can think of is say you use a good honey, then if you stop it early I would think you would get the nice characteristics of honey. But if you let it go dry and then backsweeten you might lose a lot.

Any insight would be great :)
 
The only argument i could dream up against your plan would be that there will be waiting and guessing while your bottles carb- if you miss the right point theyll be too dry, or overcarbed. But i suppose so long as youre using a yeast that readily poops out in the cold and you stay on top of it it oughta be quite alright!
 
Letting it go dry and back sweetening is the busy/lazy persons way. No need to constantly monitor and allot time to bottle.
 
The only argument i could dream up against your plan would be that there will be waiting and guessing while your bottles carb- if you miss the right point theyll be too dry, or overcarbed. But i suppose so long as youre using a yeast that readily poops out in the cold and you stay on top of it it oughta be quite alright!

Also curious about this, because i wont be bottling i will be kegging my 5 gallons. I will be bottling some but plan to do it from the tap at some point in the future.

I think i will have an easier time once it gets to the proper dryness to carb it without risking the yeast starting up.

When people say waiting for it to dry out, is that just implying when fermentation stops? It wont get more dry after fermenting is done, just soften over time right?
 
Yeah I am referring to when the gravity no longer changes and is at its lowest point.
 
To Zippox...The best way to answer this is to try brewing a batch (maybe with a weaker ale yeast) and then racking half and cold crashing at your desired sweetness and leaving the rest to ferment out with the intention of backsweetening. I personally try to catch mine around 1.02 and carefully rack. I feel more natural flavor is retained this way. But since there will still be yeast in secondary, I try to get it to drop out at fridge temps as much as possible. I will only backsweeten if my cider gets too dry and didn't catch it in time in primary. The one good thing about backsweetening that I've found is you can get creative and try different methods (honey, sugar, regular concentrate or blended concentrate, or other juices, etc). By experimenting like I suggested, I've found that I prefer not letting my cider go dry. Flavor is stripped I feel.
 
To Zippox...The best way to answer this is to try brewing a batch (maybe with a weaker ale yeast) and then racking half and cold crashing at your desired sweetness and leaving the rest to ferment out with the intention of backsweetening. I personally try to catch mine around 1.02 and carefully rack. I feel more natural flavor is retained this way. But since there will still be yeast in secondary, I try to get it to drop out at fridge temps as much as possible. I will only backsweeten if my cider gets too dry and didn't catch it in time in primary. The one good thing about backsweetening that I've found is you can get creative and try different methods (honey, sugar, regular concentrate or blended concentrate, or other juices, etc). By experimenting like I suggested, I've found that I prefer not letting my cider go dry. Flavor is stripped I feel.

So when you've had to backsweeten, are you able to get it carbonated as well in bottles?
 
I believe you're supposed to backsweeten and taste it and stop adding more when you like it. Then boil 5 oz of sugar in (how much water?) and when it comes back to room temp, add it to the cider then bottle. Then there are methods you can find on the form to know when you have the right level of carbonation. When that point comes, check out the sticky at the top of the cider forum about bottle pasteurization. That means you can make a sweet, carbonated cider that won't continue fermenting and blow up.

If someone could chime in and provide insight on the amount of water and anything else I might have missed.

Edit: I realized how many spelling errors I made when replying on my tiny iPhone screen so I edited this post :p
 
So when you've had to backsweeten, are you able to get it carbonated as well in bottles?

Yeah. It'll definitely carb up as well. Sometimes pretty quickly. I always rack well above 1.000 though so I'm not a pro when it comes to fermenting all the way out. If I add any sugar at my higher SG, that yeast is ready to partay;) all over again. That's what I try to avoid. By not having to add any sugar via backsweetening, I feel I have more control.
 
I see you are from Aurora, JtotheA. Party on Wayne. Party on Garth.

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Well I think I just may try and catch my cider before it hits the 1.02 mark when I finally make it, throw it in a fridge for a couple days, then get the ball rolling on bottling it. Thanks for the responses all.
 
So how long can you keep it in the fridge (cold crashed)? I cold crashed mine last night to get ready for bottling after I back sweeten with some juice concentrate, my bottles are supposed to get here today but have not shown up yet. Is it okay to leave it chilled for a few days?
 
Correct me if I am wrong but it will only do good. I'm sure it will become clearer, more solids will drop out, including yeast, etc. from what I have read many people cold crash for a couple days which is what I was planning on doing. And I'm not sure if it is already mentioned in this thread but there will still be a good amount of yeast in the solution to carbonate your bottles just fine.
 
Well I just received my bottles and some other goods from northern brewer. Unfortunately I don't have time to bottle today. Will do tomorrow though for sure.
 
Zippox said:
Correct me if I am wrong but it will only do good. I'm sure it will become clearer, more solids will drop out, including yeast, etc. from what I have read many people cold crash for a couple days which is what I was planning on doing. And I'm not sure if it is already mentioned in this thread but there will still be a good amount of yeast in the solution to carbonate your bottles just fine.

Thanks for the cold crash info btw.
 
So how long can you keep it in the fridge (cold crashed)? I cold crashed mine last night to get ready for bottling after I back sweeten with some juice concentrate, my bottles are supposed to get here today but have not shown up yet. Is it okay to leave it chilled for a few days?

How much concentrate did you use? Did you ferment to completely dry? Also are you going for still or will you carbonate? thanks
 
I used two cans of old orchard 100% juice. One apple cherry and the other apple raspberry (don't ask me why) ha ha, to 4 gallons of 100% Hansens juice. I'm not sure how much I will need when I back sweeten for taste, but as soon as I do my back sweetening (most likely tomorrow) I will post what I went with for my liking. I do plan on having my bottles sparkling. I will place a plastic bottle with the same cider with my glass bottles and use it as a guide towards how the carb process is going. Once the bottle is nice and hard I will place all 24-12oz bottles in the fridge.
 
I also have some 22oz. Bottles that I will be using . 128 ounces = 1 gallon so I'm going to need 512 ounces of glass, those 24-12oz ain't gonna cut it.
 
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Here it is cold crashed. I noticed it was still letting some gas out of the airlock, but it's slowed wayyyy down.
 
I also have some 22oz. Bottles that I will be using . 128 ounces = 1 gallon so I'm going to need 512 ounces of glass, those 24-12oz ain't gonna cut it.

for 5 gal i typically need about 48-50 12oz bottles, so you'll need about 40 bottles. Better get drinking! I prefer Goose Island bottles.. Why buy new bottles when you can enjoy some great beer in the process? :)
 
I do have some bottles saved up, the bottles I received from northern brewer seem
Kinda thin to me but I gotta try em.
 
I typically will rack at 1.016 and this will slow down the ferment to a crawl. Then leave it in the secondary to clear for about a week. The fermentation doesn't do much in this one week period. Then I rack to bottling bucket with 1/4 gal of original juice and bottle. Wait 1-2 weeks to carb up and have a clear, crisp, sweet and sparkling cider.
 
After you have racked it into the secondary and waited a week, have you taken the FG? I'd be curious to know what that is so if I find mine to be lower/higher, I could adjust my addition of juice accordingly (though I will probably do a few taste tests for good measure).
 
1.014 is the lowest it has been after the 1 week in the secondary. It doesn't move much. I try to bump it back up to 1.016 with the 1/4 gallon of juice. I estimate is probably ends at 1.014 again in the bottle by the time i pasturize.
 
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