Adding body to your brews?

I have 2 all grain batches under my belt and have hit my gravity readings on the money each time. (SG, OG, and FG) I do the batch sparge method utilizing a 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler from HD as my mashtun and have an effieciency range of close to 75%.

I first made an IPA that is awesome and very hoppy, similar in taste to that of Racer 5. My first samples after bottling at the 2 and 3 week mark were tasty nonetheless but lacked the body you get from a commercial brew. I aged at a couple weeks longer at room temp and then chilled the whole batch. Its mellowed out and even seemed to bitter up a bit helping with the body.

My second batch was an American Red that I bottled on the 14th of April. I sampled a bottle last night to see where its at and was quite surprised at how carbed up it was. Very tasty but, again, lacks body and has an almost watered down feel in my mouth. I know it will get better with age but my extract brews at this stage seemed to have more body and mouthfeel to it.

My questions to you guys that have been all grain brewing for quite sometime is...Is this common in all grain? What can be done to make a brew have more body and thickness to it without going the maltodextrine addition route? Do I need to boil longer and concentrate the final product? I have dozens of extract brews under my belt and have only recently jumped to all grain.

Extract usually has a good quantity of unfermentable sugars. This would make for more body and sweetness. You can add these dextrines with caramel malts or change your mash schedule. You didn't say what kind of mash you are doing. Mashing at higher temps will give more body (154-158F).

what temp do you mash at? mashing at higher in the mash temp range increases body and mouthfeel, i think also adding carapils,carahell,flaked barley and flaked wheat can also help,there may be more options,i'm still learning about various malts/adjuncts as well

I've been mashing at 152 with a temp loss to 151 and even 150 over a 60 minute mash. I know mashing at lower temps makes for a dry beer but I've had some dry beers that had loads of body.

I've read that some people use Maltodextrin(4-8oz per 5 gallons) to add body to brews. I just brewed a pale ale with 4oz of it yesterday so I can't report on its effect yet.

Can you post recipes? It's very difficult to diagnose problems like this with no knowledge of the recipe.

-a.

Usually, for a medium body, you will want to mash at 152-154. I like the 154 temperature, for a medium body with pretty good attenuation.

There are some ingredients you can use to increase the perception of body and mouthfeel- if you post a typical recipe that you're wondering about along with the mash schedule I bet one of us can help pinpoint how to correct it.

I use Beersmith for my recipes.

My IPA:

12.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 88.89 %
1.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.11 %
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 64.0 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 12.2 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (1 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


My Red Ale:

9.47 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 89.42 %
0.99 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 9.36 %
0.13 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 1.22 %
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 27.9 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 5.6 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (5 min) Hops 6.5 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.4 IBU
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale

Well, the recipes look good! I would then consider the mash temps at the culprit. I'd try mashing that first recipe at 154 (preheating well, so you get no drops in temp) for 60 minutes. You can still use a clean well attenuating ale yeast (the WLP001 is perfect). What did that one finish at?

I know mashing at lower temps makes for a dry beer but I've had some dry beers that had loads of body.

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I think I know what you mean, but "body" is sort of the opposite of "dry" when talking about these things. Maybe you are looking for more protein in the final beer. Maybe try adding some wheat or oats.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-1.html

YooperBrew said:

Well, the recipes look good! I would then consider the mash temps at the culprit. I'd try mashing that first recipe at 154 (preheating well, so you get no drops in temp) for 60 minutes. You can still use a clean well attenuating ale yeast (the WLP001 is perfect). What did that one finish at?

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IPA finished at 1.012
Red the same.

Fermentation temp solid at 68 degrees for both

Brewpatrol said:

IPA finished at 1.012
Red the same.

Fermentation temp solid at 68 degrees for both

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Hmmm. At 1.012, there should be a perception of body. Does it taste "thin" or just a "flat" mouthfeel?

YooperBrew said:

Hmmm. At 1.012, there should be a perception of body. Does it taste "thin" or just a "flat" mouthfeel?

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Thin. The IPA is getting better and the Red is still very green. Hasn't even reached 2 weeks in the bottle. I'm just not used to them tasting like this when comparing them to the extracts I've brewed and tatsed at this stage. They are good but I know they can be better.

Brewpatrol said:

Thin. The IPA is getting better and the Red is still very green. Hasn't even reached 2 weeks in the bottle. I'm just not used to them tasting like this when comparing them to the extracts I've brewed and tatsed at this stage. They are good but I know they can be better.

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I'm scratching my head here! That recipe (the IPA) looks solid and with a FG of 1.012, it should have some body. I'd still boost the mash temperature up to 154 and see if that helps. Sometimes tweaking the mash temperature gets you the last final detail that makes the beer perfect.

I like the recipe. I would try the exact same recipe with the higher mash temp and see if that solves the issue.

One last thought- if you don't mash out (if fly sparging), or get the first round of sparge water up to about 180 so that the grain bed is about 168 (if batch sparging), sometimes the mash continues to lower in temperature. That would create a more fermentable wort. Since it finished at 1.012, I don't really think that's a big issue but you can always start your first runnings onto boil to "lock in" your mash profile just in case.

YooperBrew said:

Since it finished at 1.012, I don't really think that's a big issue but you can always start your first runnings onto boil to "lock in" your mash profile just in case.

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Whew, last week I brewed up a 5 gal. AG batch of Edwort's Haus ale. I was trying to keep the first running hot so I put them on the fire, my attention turned to sparging and then I noticed it was boiling away. I turned of the heat, but I was afraid i had botched thing up.

Nice to know I was just worrying for naught.

Thank you all for the responses. I'm a bit of a perfectionist and maybe am being too critical of my first couple of all grain brews. They are good, 100 times better than any extract brew I did and taste more like a beer bought in a store. My setup now is a camp chef burner, an 8 gallon megapot with no valve and a 10 gallon rubbermaid converted mashtun. I have a Brutus already all welded up waiting for powder coat and other parts, so maybe when it gets going the beer will become what I am looking for.

Having seen your recipes, I agree with Yooper. Both recipes look good to me.
If you have only noticed this problem since switching to AG, then I would concentrate on the mash and sparge, rather than changing the recipe.
As Yooper said, mashing 1 - 2 degrees higher will give you more body, but will also result in a slightly higher FG. I think that this would be worth trying.
Mashing with a water to grain ratio of 1 qt water to 1 lb grain would also have a similar effect if you are currently using a thinner mash. If you try a thicker mash, then keep the mash temperature at <= 152F.
For the IPA, I think that WLP001 should be great. For the red, I think that WLP004 may be better. It should give a slightly higher FG, but more body.

Hope this helps,

-a.

Also, you should make sure that you check your thermometer's calibration. It should show 212F boiling at sea level, and 32F in Ice-filled water. I've seen a lot of thermometers (including 2 of mine) up to 5 degrees off! There are a couple of threads around here on that.

Thinking you are mashing at 152 and actually being at 148 would make a big difference. OTOH, If you are seeing 1.012FG, that may not be your issue - but a couple of degrees?

Dave