Russian Imperial Stout

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Nico93

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Hi!

this is my second attempt of an imperial stout, this was the first: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=409946 and was delicious but there are only four bottles left so I'm going to brew the second attempt in the next month and I want to improve and I'd like to have your opinion about the recipe:



Recipe: imperial stout 1.1
Brewer: nico e gio
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30,0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8,19 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6,43 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5,28 gal
Bottling Volume: 5,28 gal
Estimated OG: 1,117 SG
Estimated Color: 57,1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 110,0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79,9 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7,72 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 35,4 %
0,66 lb Light Dry Extract (8,0 SRM) Dry Extract 10 3,0 %
6,61 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3,5 SRM) Extract 11 30,3 %
1,43 lb Chocolate Malt (350,0 SRM) Grain 2 6,6 %
1,43 lb Roasted Barley (300,0 SRM) Grain 3 6,6 %
1,10 lb Barley, Flaked (1,7 SRM) Grain 4 5,1 %
1,10 lb Smoked Malt (9,0 SRM) Grain 5 5,1 %
0,88 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80,0 SRM) Grain 6 4,0 %
0,88 lb Special B Malt (180,0 SRM) Grain 7 4,0 %



8,11 oz Styrian Goldings [4,40 %] - Boil 90,0 mi Hop 8 110,0 IBUs

4,0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 9 -


Mash Schedule: imperial
Total Grain Weight: 21,83 lb
----------------------------
Name Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Rest 129,2 F 15 min
Saccharification 154,4 F 90 min
Mash Out 172,4 F 15 min


The quantities are a little strange because i use metrical units and i convert in order to post it here!:mug:

thanks in advance for your help!:tank:
 
I might cut back the chocolate and/or roasted barley a bit. IME, you only need 1-1.5lbs of any dark roasted malt to get a thick black color. I'd replace it with a base malt or maybe some munich? I do like ~1lb of each and ~1lb of munich. Either that or another lb of flaked barley, goes great in stouts
 
I would agree with cutting back on the chocolate. the roast...that's a matter of taste. My RIS typically has ~0.75 lb chocolate and 1.25 lb roast, and I'm very happy with my flavor profile. I would also agree with having some Munich in there--I like a backbone of MO and Munich.
 
Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies now have Maris Otter LME. I'm adding 6 lbs of it along with 10 lbs of Maris Otter malt to my 2nd RIS. You have double the bottles left of your first batch; I have only 2 remaining!

I use less roasted and crystal malts than you, but have similar OG and IBU. I'm adding 1 lb of dark Munich, 1 lb of roasted barley, 0.5 lb of Special B, .375 lbs of C80, and .375 lbs of Chocolate. I love flaked barley in a dry Stout, but like flaked oats in my RIS (adding 0.5 lbs). This to an all Maris Otter base. Pitching about 3/4 cake of Bells yeast. Man I can't wait :)
 
thanks for your help guys

i reduced a little bit the dark malts but i'd like to keep them around 12% (in the first ris i used 14% of dark malts and i liked it) i also added i little 1lb of munich but i have a doubt, the enzymes of the maris otter are enough to convert all the starches of others malts? if it isn't a problem i'll increase the flaked wheat (or oats?)


7,72 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 35,4 %
1,21 lb Chocolate Malt (350,0 SRM) Grain 2 5,6 %
1,21 lb Roasted Barley (300,0 SRM) Grain 3 5,6 %
1,10 lb Barley, Flaked (1,7 SRM) Grain 4 5,1 %
1,10 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20,0 SRM) Grain 5 5,1 %
1,10 lb Smoked Malt (9,0 SRM) Grain 6 5,1 %
0,88 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80,0 SRM) Grain 7 4,0 %
0,88 lb Special B Malt (180,0 SRM) Grain 8 4,0 %


Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Rest Add 18,23 qt of water at 137,9 F 129,2 F 15 min
Saccharification Add -0,00 qt of water at 154,4 F 154,4 F 90 min
Mash Out Add -4,04 qt of water at 172,4 F 172,4 F 15 min


Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8,11 oz Styrian Goldings [4,40 %] - Boil 90,0 mi Hop 9 107,5 IBUs

i also have a doubt with the ammount of IBU, is a BU/GU near 0,9 ok?

Solbes what is Bells yeast?

I'm not sure also on the yeast, in the previous ris i used wyeast 1728 but i think US05 is ok for this beer!

ps: Solbes i lied, i have also another 9 bottles of the barrel aged version but i would like to wait some years before open it! :ban:
 
No way, youre totally fine on the enzymes. Munich has enough power to convert itself and maybe a bit to help out too.

us-05 will work fine. I personally use Irish Ale yeast for all my stouts. Bell's yeast is from Bells Brewery. Their seasonal Oberon Wheat beer is popular for harvesting from

I wouldnt fret about the IBUs for any stout or porter. Although RIS do tend to have a firm hop bitterness. You could just go with a bit of magnum or something at 90min and be done with it. I wouldnt waste an aroma hop like EKG
 
perfect, now i have to decide between flaked oats and flaked wheat, i can add a lbs of each or choose between the two, what do you think about?

i'll use the US-05 to reach the correct pitching rate easily
 
I think you meant flaked barley? Both flaked barley or oats are entirely appropriate in a stout, so totally up to you. I like the silky mouthfeel of oats in a stout. And I like my RIS beers to attenuate as much as I can (hoping for low 1.02's for FG). The oats make that seem higher without making it sweeter.

Flaked barley is awesome too. Gives more body and greatly improved head retention.

Guess I would go one or the other rather than someof each.
 
Between flaked oats, wheat and barley, I would usually use oats in a stout. It doesnt seem to help as much with head retention (due to the small amount of fats in it) but gives more silky texture and flavor than the other two IME
 
i was thinking flaked barley and i don't know why i write flaked wheat :drunk:


Boil Size: 8,19 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6,43 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5,28 gal
Bottling Volume: 5,28 gal
Estimated OG: 1,116 SG
Estimated Color: 53,2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 102,6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79,9 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2,20 lb Light Dry Extract (8,0 SRM) Dry Extract 12 10,1 %
3,31 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3,5 SRM) Extract 13 15,2 %
7,72 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 35,4 %
1,21 lb Chocolate Malt (350,0 SRM) Grain 2 5,6 %
1,21 lb Roasted Barley (300,0 SRM) Grain 3 5,6 %
1,10 lb Barley, Flaked (1,7 SRM) Grain 4 5,1 %
1,10 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20,0 SRM) Grain 5 5,1 %
1,10 lb Oats, Flaked (1,0 SRM) Grain 6 5,1 %
1,10 lb Smoked Malt (9,0 SRM) Grain 7 5,1 %
0,88 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80,0 SRM) Grain 8 4,0 %
0,88 lb Special B Malt (180,0 SRM) Grain 9 4,0 %
-

2,29 oz Hallertau Magnum [14,00 %] - Boil 90,0 m Hop 10 102,6 IBUs


4,0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 11


Mash Schedule: imperial
Total Grain Weight: 21,83 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Protein Rest Add 19,55 qt of water at 137,9 F 129,2 F 15 min
Saccharification Add -0,00 qt of water at 154,4 F 154,4 F 90 min
Mash Out Add -4,04 qt of water at 172,4 F 172,4 F 15 min


so this is the recipe whit 1lb of flaked wheat and 1lb of flaked oats, i'm going to think more about oats and barley


i added a protein rest given the quantities of flaked things, i really need it?

p.s. solbes i'm the opposite, i like imperial when they are thick!
 
ive never done a protein rest even with close to 40% flaked wheat. Youll be fine with the regular mash
 
perfect!, i'll update this topic when is done! thanks!
 
Done 9 days ago!
i put vienna and caravienna instead of monaco because when I was weighing the grains I realized that I haden't any monaco!

i've got a better efficency than usual and i overshooted a little bit the OG and i decided to not diluite

after one week is was down to 1043 but is still bubbling, today i take a reading and was still to 1043 but i think i think I've made some mistakes, maybe i haven't pulled all the co2 out, the next saturaday i0ll take another reading and i'll update the topic!

here the final recipe:






BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: imperial stout 1.1
Brewer: Nico
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7,93 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6,17 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5,55 gal
Bottling Volume: 5,55 gal
Estimated OG: 1,120 SG
Estimated Color: 53,5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 100,8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 88,5 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7,72 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3,0 SRM) Grain 1 35,0 %
1,32 lb Chocolate Malt (350,0 SRM) Grain 2 6,0 %
1,32 lb Roasted Barley (300,0 SRM) Grain 3 6,0 %
1,10 lb Barley, Flaked (1,7 SRM) Grain 4 5,0 %
1,10 lb Oats, Flaked (1,0 SRM) Grain 5 5,0 %
1,10 lb Smoked Malt (9,0 SRM) Grain 6 5,0 %
0,88 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80,0 SRM) Grain 7 4,0 %
0,88 lb Special B Malt (180,0 SRM) Grain 8 4,0 %
0,88 lb Vienna Malt (3,5 SRM) Grain 9 4,0 %
0,22 lb Caravienne Malt (22,0 SRM) Grain 10 1,0 %
2,82 oz Hallertau Magnum [13,50 %] - Boil 60,0 m Hop 11 100,8 IBUs
4,00 g Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10,0 mins) Other 12 -
3,0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 13 -
2,20 lb Light Dry Extract (8,0 SRM) Dry Extract 14 10,0 %
3,31 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3,5 SRM) Extract 15 15,0 %


Mash Schedule: imperial
Total Grain Weight: 22,05 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time

Saccharification Add 25,36 qt of water at 150,8 F 150,8 F 90 min
Mash Out Add 0,00 qt of water at 172,4 F 172,4 F 15 min
 
i took another sample today, the gravity is down to 1041, i think it isn't going much lower, maybe 1040...

now i'm not sure if leave it as it is or to pitch some wlp099, i'm scared to finish too dry!
my last Ris starter at 1113 and finished at 1032 and i liked it a lot!

what is your opinion about?
 
I don't think it's done. Fermentation night have stalled. Maybe try letting it warm a bit? You won't get off flavors this long into fermentation

I only say that because an fg of 1.040 is absurdly high. I've never heard of a beer finishing that high. If you bottle it now I'm pretty sure you're gonna get bottle bombs
 
i have another beer into the fermentation chamber so i can't warm it up, now it's around 68-70 F, at what temperature i have to look for?

if in the next two week it doesn't go down to a resonable gravity, wlp 099 can be a good choice or it probably ferment too dry?

thanks
 
Maybe try zipping it up in a winter jacket and palcing it near a heater. This far into fermentation you could go a bit warmer without issue. Also, rocking the fermentor gently back and forth may help

Theres a number of different yeasts you could use. WLP090 and WLP099 would probably be the obvious choice. WY3711 or Belle Saison too since this far into fermentation they wont really contribute anything to the flavor profile
 
ok, i'm going to warm it up a little bit and wait two weeks, if the final results will be to high i'll buy some wlp 099 to do the job

thanks:tank:
 
Or build up a strong yeast starter of your original yeast strain (say 1-1.5L). Pitch the whole thing 12 hours after you see it reach high krauesen. Worked for my first one, and there is little danger it will finish too dry.
 
i have a belgian strong with wyeat 1762 in primary (still on the yeast cake), i can move it to secondary and pitch the ris on this cake, may works?
 
Depends on whether the yeast cells in the Belgian strong are stressed out already on the high alcohol environment. I am guessing they are. You want yeast cells that are at the top of their game, and in very active feeding mode, so they are ready to chew though the residual sugars of your RIS.

You could harvest a cup or two of your Strong yeast cake, add some fresh DME to 1L of water, boil, chill, and let it get started. Pitch the whole thing 12 hours after reaching peak krausen.
 
agreed, that would be way overpitching if you just dumped on the cake. Grab some of the washed yeast and use that
 
Thanks you guys for the replies but I had already put the ris on the Belgian cake (I done it before your replies, this is why I haven't applied yours suggestions)
Friday I'm going to take a reading to understand if something is happening) I don't know why but my fermenter is not more airtight and I can't watch the airlock to have and ideas)
Friday I'm also going to brew the westy 12 clone of Csi that use wyeast 3787 and I'm going to have a huge blow off, I can harvest some yeast to put in the ris? Good idea?
 
If you're already on the Belgian yeast cake, I would just roll with that and see where it goes. Maybe check the gravity once a week or so to track progress.
 
No gravity change, I'm going to pitch a vial of wlp 099 and let it go...
 
is it still at 1.040? That's pretty nuts. Maybe the alcohol content exceeded what the yeast can tolerate. That, or your thermometer was not reading correctly
 
Yes is still there, I'm going to check the thermometer when I come back home this weekend but I don't think is fault of it because I checked it not long time ago,
It's around 11% , I think that us05 can handle upper level of alcool
After checked the thermometer i have to understand what is problem, pitched a lot of yeast (I also used the nutrients),the fermentation temperature were OK
Maybe with this big beer the problem is oxygen, I splashed very well from one fermentator to the other but maybe is not enough, I'm going t.o buy some oxygen soon
Could be a lack of oxygen?
 
Yes is still there, I'm going to check the thermometer when I come back home this weekend but I don't think is fault of it because I checked it not long time ago,
It's around 11% , I think that us05 can handle upper level of alcool
After checked the thermometer i have to understand what is problem, pitched a lot of yeast (I also used the nutrients),the fermentation temperature were OK
Maybe with this big beer the problem is oxygen, I splashed very well from one fermentator to the other but maybe is not enough, I'm going t.o buy some oxygen soon
Could be a lack of oxygen?

DO NOT ADD OXYGEN! At this point you risk making your beer taste like cardboard. Add nutrients and maybe some champagne yeast or something.
 
I know I haven't to add oxygen right now, my doubt was about the initial oxygenation before the start of fermentation.

I don't think champagne yeast can do something in this beer because I think I have a lot of complex sugar, I have already used wlp 099 8j similar situation with good results, I'm going to pitch it and wait some time
 
added a 0,5l starter of wlp 099, now i've got a little krausen on the top and the gravity is down at 1035 :)
 
1025 starting to be a little bit scared for a too low fg, starting to think how to increase it after fermentation is complete, maltodextrin?
 
??? 1.025 is a perfect 10 for FG I would say. I would not mess with it at all. Even dropping to 1.020 should have plenty of body.
 
1025 is ok, i was talking of the future:D i'm starting to think what to do if i goes too low, 1020 sound to a little bit thin, i haven't got a lot of experience with ris, i've made two, one start and 1113 and finished at 1030 and i really like it, the other started at 1090 and finished at 1020 and it was to thin, I like thick imperial stout:) this is why it sound 1020 sound thin to me but effectively is a total different beer with 30 point less of og... so i think you are right i have to stop to think how to change it! i have at least to let it finish!
 
You can put it somewhere a little cooler and then just let it sit for a couple more weeks. I would think even the high gravity yeast should start to wind down sitting in that much alcohol.
 
but putting it in a colder place i don't risk to only slow down the attenuation?
i can decrease the attenuation? dosen't risk to make it going again when i add priming sugar eating also the residual sugar?
 
Yeah let it ride out and then malto/lacto or what not if you feel you need it. Then for next time play around with: mashing higher, design grain bill with more unfermentables, less attentuating yeast choice.
 
yeah, the next time i'm going to use a yeast cake! i was hoping in something more from us05, maybe with this big beer i need pure ixygen (I am considering buying one but here in europe are expensive: 170 dollars for one 5liters tank (that is so big but it easier to resell) how much they cost in US? (i know that i can't use a US tank in EU,just out of curiosity)
 
I used a whole yeast cake of Bells yeast in my RIS that's in primary right now. 1.111 OG, mashed low, and added 1 lb of D180 (kind of a Surly Darkness thing). Hoping I hit somewhere in the 1.020-1.028 range. I'll crack open the lid on Saturday to see how its doing (three weeks in primary). Ideally I can rack to secondary to open up a bonus Sunday brew session. Normally its 10F outside and my brew equipment is put away for the year, but this weather is fantastic!
 
I'm lucky, I brew outside but I'm covered by the roof and I don't have rain /snow problem!
12F is pretty cold! I live in North Italy and during the winter we have a similar temp during the early stage of the morning but in the afternoon it goes up!
One time, 3 (?) years ago we had a very strong winter, every day in the morning we were under 5F with one peak of - 1,5F!
During this day we are around 25F in the morning and 40F in the afternoon, enough hot to brew! :)
 
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