parts list for electric hlt?

I'd like to get started gathering parts to electrify my keg HLT with an element.

I'd like to have a controller on it to set temps exactly.

I'd also really prefer to keep it 110 so I don't need to invest in running a 220 outlet in a garage I might be selling soon.

Who's got the goods? A parts list?

I think "the pol" has it all listed here..

You won't need the HERMS instructions but you can use the electric part of the HLT instructions.

Take a look. Page 10 post 99 I think
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/new-10-gallon-herms-pics-76773/

Are you using a pump with your HLT or gravity to send sparge water to your mash tun?

I ask because a heating element directly in the HLT has massive stratification of temps. You need to agitate the water in some way. POL uses a stir motor. I use a pump to recirc the water through a heat exchanger. By using the external heat exchanger, you can use any vessel as an HLT. I just switched from a cooler to a half barrel keg. I found that the cooler liner got to soft at 185 - 190 degrees and would start to leak. I fly sparge and require HLT temps in the 185 range to get 170 degree water to hit my mash, the silicon tubing loses a lot of temp when the flow is real slow. I need to either shorten the hose or insulate in some way.

Linc

I have a pump and a return in the hlt lid that spits and causes a slight swirl, so water from the bottom return in the top and the whole deal has a bit of a rotational flow. With direct fire heat that I use now, it seems to be within a degree or two checking at a couple spots around the HLT with my long stemmed dial thermometer.

pol said:

For those wondering, the HLT element is installed this way:

The HLT is simply heated by a 1500W, 120VAC high density heating element. Mine is controlled by the Ranco, mainly because it needs to be tweaked during the mash while the HERMS is running.

I simply used 2 hole saws to get the element in there.

I used a 2" hole saw to drill through the OUTER shell of the cooler and through the foam insulation. Once the arbor hits the INNER shell, STOP DRILLING.

I then used a 1.25" hole saw to drill a smaller hole through the INNER shell only.

I used a 1" PVC sleeve and placed it over the electrical connection end of the element once the wires were connected. I then filled the cavity left inside the sleeve/around the electrical connections, with JB Weld to pot the connections.

Once this is complete, you insert the element in from the bottom, and use a SS 1" lock nut inside the HLT to tighten the element into the hole. You will use the seal that comes with the element to seal it, on the outside, not inside.

Viola... it is inserted.

Click to expand...

Does lowe's carry this element?

I'm guessing from this I'll need:
1.25" hole saw
jb weld
element
electric cord with plug
ranco controller
thermowell (weldless for keg)

Anything else?

Does lowe's carry this element?

yes

You will need the listed above... and JB Stik, and a 1" dia. PCV non conductive slip coupling.

If you are stuck at 110VAC... you need to get a 1,500W element if you can. Your HLT will be heating A LOT of water, and you would really prefer to have 240VAC going to that kettle. I have one advantage, my 1500W element is in a sealed COOLER where I have almost no temp loss at all.

That being said, the biggest friggin 120VAC element that you can get(I think 2000W) pulls too many AMPS for a simple Ranco controller. Youd need a PID and SSR for that.

Drill a 1.25" hole... follow my instructions for building the element (BLING BLING Electric Herms Conversion thread)

If you are putting this element in a kettle, a non insulated or poorly insulate vessel... I think you are going to hate it. Especially if you are using a pump to circulate the water (read more heat loss)

Wiring in a 240VAC outlet is really crazy simple... and if you have space in your box and 200A service (most newer homes do) you would be WELL served to do this. It isnt that expensive and you will find that once you go electic, you will NEED to have 240VAC to run the rig. I was scared to do it for a year or so, but then once I did, I wish I had done that 30 minute project (installing a 240VAC outlet) long ago.

Is a PID and SSR setup something I could get through on my own with advice from you?

I can use LP heat and the element to raise the temp. Do you think the 1500W element could hold temps while running the HERMS and raise a few degrees at a time for small steps? I could use the flame again for large temp raises or steps.

my issue is that I'm not very electrically inclined, and I haven't found anyone nearby who can help.
If I had someone who knew what they were doing, I wouldn't mind adding one higher voltage outlet and setting up a box for the rig with switches and outlets for the pumps, controllers for elements, etc. I just am far from being capable of tackling it on my own.

I do have a mostly empty electric box in the garage, though, so I could run a dozen high voltage outlets out of it if I knew how (and how to build the control box for the rig to take in high voltage, use it for elements, and have low voltage switched outlets for pumps, etc.)

I can easily get you through the PID and SSR wiring... it isnt that hard and I just finished mine (and it works!)

1500W will maintain temps... steps? Errr, probably not a great way to do it. It would take a while even with a Cooler HERMS. You either need 240VAC or excellent insualtion...

nathan said:

my issue is that I'm not very electrically inclined, and I haven't found anyone nearby who can help.
If I had someone who knew what they were doing, I wouldn't mind adding one higher voltage outlet and setting up a box for the rig with switches and outlets for the pumps, controllers for elements, etc. I just am far from being capable of tackling it on my own.

I do have a mostly empty electric box in the garage, though, so I could run a dozen high voltage outlets out of it if I knew how (and how to build the control box for the rig to take in high voltage, use it for elements, and have low voltage switched outlets for pumps, etc.)

Click to expand...

I had never wired anything besides a light fixture prior to building my rig. Youd be surprised at the help you can get here.

Do you think you could help me with a parts list and instructions?

We could do it in PM, or we could make a "teach the retarded monkey how to make a auto-controlled hlt" thread and you could get another article published about it.

If there's anything I need to do, like get pictures of my box or measure anything... I have drilled the studs and run wire to a box and put in a regular outlet (I didn't add the circuit, though, just left the wires there), but I don't know what wire to buy, what box to buy for housing the outlet, what outlet, what breaker thing, and how to hook that into the box...

At least I know roughly what I DON'T know.

This will all depend on what you want to be able to do. Do you want a switch? If it is 1500W and a Ranco that you are running, you can get away with all 20A stuff... outlet, switch and 12AWG THHN insulated wire in the box. Running TO the box you will want a three prong 12AWG cord at a minimum (capable of 20A draw)

Typical switches are easy to find that will manage 20A and the same with the outlet. For something small like this you could get away with a 4 x 4 x 4 junction box. I have all of my stuff crammed into a 8x8x4 box!

I can help you, we can start a thread, but first we need to nail down exactly what you want to build.

I'll try to get a firm idea of what it'd be cool if it did, and some options in case that's not realistic drawn up this weekend and sent to you.

My initial thought is that it would be wicked if I could put in one outlet on the wall, and have one big fat plug to put in it, that would power the control box enough to basically run the whole stand - so I could have elements in the hlt and boil kettle managed in some sort of automated way, and switched outlets for two pumps and one stir-motor (in case I add that).

Maybe it would make sense to plan it out in a box and set it up in stages, like hlt control and element first, bk element and control second addition, and switched outlets third (and maybe these might require an additional cord plugged into a normal voltage wall outlet, I don't know, but two cords is okay).

I'll try to get it all detailed out this weekend.

If you are ever flying into RDU or the central NC area, you'll have to swing by!

I overnighted in RDU just a week or so ago...

It was a huge cluster FRICK because the maintenance people out there do not know how to properly power up our aircraft and they had it all jacked up.

If you wanted a large plug... Id plan for a 30+ amp 240VAC circuit. For me it was easy to wire it up and place the oultlet just under my brewker box (no fishing wires). Then you can run a beefy cord to your control box and run all of your 120VAC and 240VAC stuff off that one line.

You will only be using about 25A at a time though max. When you are mashing you wont be boiling, so you will only be using one heating element, one pump and the temp controller (16A). When you are boiling you will be using about 23A with a 5500W element... so that is fine for a 30A circuit.

Well if you are this way again, I'd take you around to some of our local beer spots!

Here are my notes:

Added circuit to breaker panel to run to new outlet for 240 outlet (have plenty of normal outlets)
Should be GFI?

1 control box
Has cords with plugs for 240 and 110
Box is relatively water protected
Digital temperature control of hot water element for the HLT
Digital temperature control for boiling in Boil Kettle
Switch controlled outlets (3) to be able to flip on 2 pumps and one HLT stir device
Main power control for 240 power so it won’t turn on elements automatically when plugged in?

Electrify HLT
HLT is a converted keg. Needs thermowell for digital control. Needs controller and element (it’s only propane headed right now). Will do the element through the side to preserve ability to heat from bottom with flame to rapid-heat when necessary.

Electrify Boil Kettle
Low densidty element? Simmer control? thermowell? Not sure what method works best for maintaining boil with electric element. I have a propane burner under it, and will use both to reach boil once element is covered when filling from mash so it should reach boil more quickly. This is also a converted keg.

Overall
If it needs to be broken into two boxes, or even three, that’s fine (maybe 3 small ones for HLT, Boil Kettle, and outlets separately?), or one big box.
If it can be planned out, I would love to do it in stages: 1 – HLT, 2 – Boil Kettle, 3 – switch outlets. So I can buy the parts up for one project at a time.
I am capable of some basic steel welding, but not stainless, so I'll need to do weldless fittings in the keggles.

What do you think? Anything I'm not thinking of yet?

#1. Your added circuit should be a GFCI breaker that feeds the 240VAC outlet. Use a 4 prong outlet so that you can run a neutral and a ground intot he box along with the (2) hots from the 240VAC. Determine how many amps you will need. 5500W requires 23A, so a 30A breaker for that element alone. A 40A breaker would easily cover a 5500W element running along with a pump and temp controllers.

You CAN simply run the 240VAC into the box and split your 120VAC for temp controllers and such off of that. That is your choice and is EASY to do. You simply run one HOT and one NEUTRAL from the incoming 240VAC line to the outlet/switch whatever it is.

HLT... how large of an element is going in there? If you are 1650W or less you can use 120VAC and a simple Ranco or JC A419 temp control. Those controllers will only switch 15A. If you go larger 2000W and up, you will more than likely run 240VAC and use a PID and SSR to control the current since your draw will be in excess of 15A.


You said (3) outlets for two pumps and the HLT stirrer. I have my HLT stirrer set up to run whenever my HLT temp controller is powered. Basically it required one less outlet, and I want it running any time my HLT is going to be energized.

I have three switches and three outlets. ONE 20A switch to a 20A outlet for the HLT temp controller/element/stirrer. ONE 20A switch to a 20A outlet for the March pump and ONE 30A switch that turns off BOTH hot legs that run to my 30A outlet where the element plugs in. Sounds like you will need another 20A or so outlet and switch to control your other pump.

I would recommend using 3500W or so in the HLT. I use much less, but you have to consider your lack of insulation or a lid on the HLT. You will be battling heat loss. So you would want a 3500W element, PID, SSR, Heatsink and a k type thermowell or an RTD (both are just temp probes) You can get ALL of that at Auberins.com I can get you the specific PID so that you get what you need.

The BK will require 5500W or so, a PID, SSR, thermowell (k type or RTD) from Auberins.com

I dont know how you are going to do switched outlets as step 3... only because to really utilize the PIDs you will need outlets connected to the SSR outputs, so therefore you need to have a control box built to accomodate that.

You can easily do this in ONE box... which will be cleaner and easier as far as wiring is concerned. Id go with one to keep it compact and handy while brewing.

Clear as mud?

more clear than I was.
What I'm hearing is that you have a switch that provides 110 to your controller, stirrer, and another higher amp switch for the element. This controller on the 20A switch controls the element that is drawing it's power through the 30A switch.

I think I'm getting this more now.

I would like to keep the stirrer set up with it's own 110 outlet with a switch because I don't actually have one yet, and may not, or can at least wait a bit on it. I also like the idea of being able to manually switch it so I can take the lid off if I want to add more water, etc.

If I'm using the larger element in the boil kettle, is there a reason not to use the same in the HLT? That might simplify it, as I think the installations and wiring for each would be identical then, right? It's just a matter then of setting up the controller to work a boil in the BK, and the controller for the hlt set up differently if I'm understanding your previous posts in other threads. Whatever is the best/smartest is what I'd like to do, though. My hlt I usually keep near full (14.75 gallons), and my bk I start with 12.75-14 gallons, so they are pretty similar. I do put a lid on the hlt, and I do NOT put a lid on the BK. If electric works really well, I might consider insulating (just not the lower 6" or so) in the future.

Can one big outlet on my garage wall provide all this juice to a control box through one plug or will it need two circuits and plugs and cords?

If you get the parts lists decided on, I'll get to ordering and trying to lay it all out while I work on understanding how to wire it up.

Also, I'm not concerned about how it looks, just performance. My rig is pretty rough (was my 'learning to weld' project), but it makes beer!

Okay, I am watching 2 kids now, so let me take this a step at a time.

I have ONE 240VAC line that comes in. I have a distribution block sold by automationdirect.com to split off multiple hots and neautrals to all of my switches.

The 20A switches are fed by one hot and one neutral. Each 20A switch powers a 120VAC 20A outlet.

The 30A switch has (2) hots coming in, then going out. One hot goes out to the SSR to be switched by the PID, the other hot goes directly to the 30A outlet.

You will probably want a stirrer, or to use one of your March pumps to circulate the water. If you have a SS kettle, a high power element and a HERMS coil, you will have some wacky temps in that water. Cold at the edges, colder near the HERMS coil and HOTTTT near the element.

You can easily run a 5500W element in the HLT and BK, especially with those volumes.

As long as you can fit a double pole 40A GFCI breaker in the circuit breaker box, you will have plenty of power to run ONE 5500W element at a time and pumps etc. You will NOT be able to boil and heat the HLT, but would you ever want to?

Do you have 100A or 200A service in your circuit breaker? Should be able to telly by looking at the main shutoff.

The Pol said:

I can easily get you through the PID and SSR wiring... it isnt that hard and I just finished mine (and it works!)

1500W will maintain temps... steps? Errr, probably not a great way to do it. It would take a while even with a Cooler HERMS. You either need 240VAC or excellent insualtion...

Click to expand...

Depends on the batch size. On a 5 gallon batch my 1500W element gives me about 2 degrees per minute rise.

That being said, I have only done infusion mashes so far with my external heating element.

Linc

missing link said:

Depends on the batch size. On a 5 gallon batch my 1500W element gives me about 2 degrees per minute rise.

That being said, I have only done infusion mashes so far with my external heating element.

Linc

Click to expand...

He is talking about 12 gallons in his HLT... you will not even get 1F per minute in a cooler HLT with a 1500W element. Looks like he is going all 240VAC anyway, which is a good idea.

I have 200A service.
I understand the switching now, thanks.
I will definitely use either my current march pump with hlt return lid to keep water circulating, and/or eventually switch it out for a stirrer (future project probably). Especially when it's cold outside in my unheated garage I can get stratification easily just with a burner.

I sometimes double-batch, but if I wanted to double batch, I could switch to flame on the hlt periodically to maintain it's temps manually myself while mashing batch #2 and using electric to boil batch 1 (for most propane savings).

If I get a wild hair about it, I could rework the panel later to have a separate setup controlling the BK and run another breaker-outlet-plug for it. I will very rarely double batch any more sine this system is 10g.

I can get you parts and suppliers for the:

Elements
PIDs
SSRs
Heatsinks

if you like... I can do that today.

cool! It'll be at least 10 days for me to start ordering anyway, as I'm traveling through this weekend. (by car, no wings for me!)

Maybe I'll get this thing running completely by Mid-March, do you think?

Easily... I planned for my electric conversion to take me a month or two... took me two weeks. AND that included the holidays and flying for a living!

this is great! I'm stoked to drastically cut the expensive propane use and speed up and simplify the brew day.

I'll have to run it a time or two then calculate how long it'll take (# of batches) before it pays for itself in propane savings.

Well, I spent about $400 converting mine to electric, but it is cheaper in the long run, cleaner, quieter...

I think if I spend that much, that's something like 40-50 batches to make it up, which is less than two years for me at max.

The nice thing is... you NEVER have to worry about running out of gas!

I'd like to test the existing rig with combo gas-electric to get to strike temp, and to get to boil. I'd bet it you can reach temps super fast! That would shave a lot of time off of the day as well. But it would be nicest just to not run out of gas mid-batch.

On Sunday I was brewing and ran out of gas about 12 minutes into my 90 minute boil. I hook up my 2nd tank (always have two!) and turned the knob and got... nothing. The knob was stripped inside so it couldn't open the valve. ARG! I load up my empty and the busted one and drive to store, talk them into taking the bad one back for free without a reciept, I go ahead and buy a refill for my second, and go home. Then I have to get back up to a boil after 25-30 minutes idle.

My wort ended up much darker than I expected, and my boiloff amount was too high...

So even when you plan ahead to help prevent running out of gas, there is still a chance of problems.

Have you seen this thread of mine? The OP has a GREAT parts list and instructions on how to make and mount your heating elements.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/bling-bling-electric-herms-conversion-93217/

yeah, I'll follow that for mounting the elements. It's the thread that got me to decide for sure I could do that part on my own (accurate pictures!).

I figure my mounting tools and items (jb weld, saw/drill) will be the same, but maybe the other bits a little different. That element is probably small for a keggle, eh?

That is a 5500W element... small?

really? I thought the 5500W was bigger. Hrm. Maybe it's not size = W?

Anyway, so long as I can fit into the side of my keggle I'm okay.

Is it maybe the boil kettle ones that are bigger? Or maybe some are just different sizes regardless of relative power.

of course, I'm also probably remembering the elements I saw at HD in my head, the really long ones, but they are probably a totally different application.

Mine is a 5500W ultra low watt density element. It is VERY long, but it is folded over and rippled, so it looks short. It is WAY longer than anything you will find in Lowes or HD. That is my BK element by the way.

In that parts list you will find the PID, SSR, Heatsink and thermocouple you will need for each element too.

What are the dimensions for that? You have yours mounted from underneath, right? To do that I'd have to commit to not using any gas assistance, which I'm not sure I want to do just yet. Will it install through the side low on a keggle?
Some elements are reshapable if you are careful, what about this one?

No, mine is through the side... look at that thread I sent you a link for, it details how to put the element through the side of the keggle.