Surly Abrasive clone

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zachary80

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Has anyone cloned this beer? Out of the four Surly beers I was able to try in MN, Abrasive was the one I brought back several four-packs of. I'd be looking for an extract / partial mash version if it's possible. Here is what their website currently lists:

"STYLE: Double Oat IPA
MALT: 2-Row, Golden Promise ,Oats,Lite Crystal
SUGAR:Brewers Crystals
HOPS: Warrior,Citra
YEAST: English Ale

OG: 19.5° Plato
ABV: 8.8% v/v
COLOR: 8 ºSRM
IBU: 120ish
AVAILABILITY: Late December-March"
 
Abrasive is my favorite beer. I'd be interested in this.

FYI - it used to be called "16 Grit" by Surly before it was canned.
 
Do we have any idea how much oat is involved? I'm guessing this would be at least a PM if that's even possible.

If my calculations are right, the beer goes from around 1.081 down to 1.015

For the yeast, all we know is that it's english and that Surly uses WLP007 for their Furious, Bitter Brewer, and Bender's english yeast. From White Labs' website:
"WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast
Clean, highly flocculent, and highly attenuative yeast. This yeast is similar to WLP002 in flavor profile, but is 10% more attenuative. This eliminates the residual sweetness, and makes the yeast well suited for high gravity ales. It is also reaches terminal gravity quickly. 80% attenuation will be reached even with 10% ABV beers.
Attenuation: 70-80%
Flocculation: Medium to High
Optimum fermentation temperature: 65-70°F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium-High "
 
Well for starters I would look at their pro-series clones from Northern Brewer - they claim to be Surly's recipes just scaled down to homebrew size, i.e. keeping the same percentages. Here's a link http://www.northernbrewer.com/default/catalogsearch/result/?q=surly&x=0&y=0

So lets looks at furious:
60.61% Pale 2-Row
26.26% Golden Promise
7.07% Medium Crystal
5.05% Aromatic
1.01% Roasted Barley

Notice there aren't any oats in this recipe, but the other recipe's that have the Simpson's Naked Golden Oats (which are crystalized malted oats @ 10 srm):
Bender: 6%
Cynic: 5.88%
Bitter Brewer: 9%

Also All of their hopping schedules are very similar - all have FWH, a 0 minute addition and a dry hop (the latter two are pretty large).

I would use these recipes as guidelines, along with the specs from the website, for constructing an Abrasive clone - it's very doubtful that this beer deviates too far from the regular grain bills and hop schedules in the beers that they have shared with NB, IMHO.
 
I would buy the kit from Northern Brewer. They did the legwork to formulate the recipe, so get the kit from them and show em a little love.

BTW, I have nothing to do with NB, just enjoy Brewing TV, their website, and their support of The Brewing Network.

Eric
 
Is this a start or am I way off? I have no experience in recipe formulation. Just going off the Surly website, NB's kit instructions, and skibb's breakdown

Type: Partial Mash

Amount Item Type % or IBU

3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 25.00 %
6.00 lb NB Gold Malt (4.0 SRM) Extract 50.00 %
1.50 lb Naked Golden Oats (10.0 SRM) Grain 12.50 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 8.33 %
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 4.17 %

2.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 61.8 IBU
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 34.0 IBU
4.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 24.9 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (0 min) Hops -

Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.083 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.020 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.34 %
Bitterness: 120.7 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 10.1 SRM
 
I would buy the kit from Northern Brewer. They did the legwork to formulate the recipe, so get the kit from them and show em a little love.

BTW, I have nothing to do with NB, just enjoy Brewing TV, their website, and their support of The Brewing Network.

Eric

I would love to buy the kit from them, but right now they only offer Furious, Bender, Cynic, Bitter Brewer, and Smoke
 
zachary80 said:
I would love to buy the kit from them, but right now they only offer Furious, Bender, Cynic, Bitter Brewer, and Smoke

You are totally right and I was not. My apologies.
 
3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 25.00 %
6.00 lb NB Gold Malt (4.0 SRM) Extract 50.00 %
1.50 lb Naked Golden Oats (10.0 SRM) Grain 12.50 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 8.33 %
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 4.17 %

2.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 61.8 IBU
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 34.0 IBU
4.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 24.9 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (0 min) Hops -

Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale

Well you aren't really following the specs for abrasive - according to their website there are neither aromatic malts in the beer nor any carapils (which is contained in NB gold malt). I would scratch both of those and just increase the DME. That will also help to bring the SRM back down closer to 8.

As far as the hopping goes I would only use Warrior for bittering, so replace the FTW with Citra - 1 oz sounds like a fine amount considering Furious only uses a half ounce of Amarillo and it's just a regular IPA. I'm sure the KO hops and the dry hops are just massive so those numbers look fine - I do wonder if they use a hop-back at Surly.

BTW this recipe will not be possible unless you do a partial mash - malted oats need barely to convert their sugars, merely steeping them will add unconverted starches to your beer.
 
I've updated it and it still seems a little off -
1.085sg (Sury is 19.5 plato - around 1.078)
8.7% abv (Surly is 8.8)
7.3SRM (Surly is 8)
122.1IBU (Surly is 120)

4.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 36.36 % 60min
4.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 36.36 % 15min
1.50 lb Naked Golden Oats (10.0 SRM) Grain 13.64 %
1.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 13.64 %

3.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 76.9 IBU
4.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
2.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 45.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (0 min) Hops -

Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale
 
Anyone? I think it may be a mistake to attempt to hit a calculated 120 ibu
 
Do you know if the hop utilization is calculated from the pre boil gravity? Your wort gravity is going to be in the 1055 range for the majority of the boil, and reaching 1100+ after 45 minutes. This is something that happened to me: when I calculated hop utilization myself I found that beersmith had wrongly calculated the IBUs and I would have added nearly 100 IBUs over my recipe (which goes into an entirely different discussion). I am not sure if I need to re-setup my equipment or what. I did add the dme as a late addition amd it still didn't adjust IBUs based on different hop utilization rates.

Tl;dr I would calculate the IBUs myself and go off of that.
Edit: go for 120. But I would consider late additions. Not sure on Surly's method but that seems like a lot of bittering hops. I had a friend do an abrasive clone and used warrior for bittering and citra for late additions .
 
Why? That is what they say they do right? It looks tasty to me, I love some Citra.

It's not that I don't think the beer really has 120 ibu's, it is that I think my recipe is overkill for the result due to a bad formula (as the previous poster suggested)

I haven't calculated bitterness on my own yet
 
Thanks to IronKrausen on beeradvocate I realized I messed up my recipe in a few places... how does this new one look:

1.083sg (Sury is 19.5 plato - around 1.078)
8.9% abv (Surly is 8.8)
6.2SRM (Surly is 8)
121.4IBU (Surly is 120)

0.50 lb Simpsons Golden Promise (2.0 SRM) Grain 5 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 5 %
0.50 lb Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM) 5%
4.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 40 % 60min
3.50 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 35 % 15min
1.00 lb Dextrose (0.0 SRM) 9.5% 0min

2.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 76.9 IBU
4.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.75 oz Citra [11.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 45.1 IBU
3.25 oz Citra [11.00 %] (0 min) Hops -

Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale
 
Did you end up brewing this? If so, how'd it turn out? Also, this is for 5 gallons, correct?
 
Did you end up brewing this? If so, how'd it turn out? Also, this is for 5 gallons, correct?

Yes this was 5 gallons, no I didn't brew it. I got myself totally confused and don't know enough about recipe composition to continue yet
 
Just brewed with following recipe. Had to pull off the dry hop early and it is lacking in Citra aroma because of it. I'm torn between 3oz of Citra, or 10 days at 2 ounces. I might go with 3 oz next time to counteract big Warrior bitterness and the dryness. Very tasty. Very strong. Just had half a glass and I'm feeling it.

Type: All Grain Date: 7/27/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal Brewer: Me
Boil Size: 5.70 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Equipment
End of Boil Volume 5.20 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 75.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes: Mashed at 148.5. Poured in water at 165, poured grain and came out at 150.5, ice and stir down to 148.5-149.
Ingredients

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 39.9 %
5 lbs 12.0 oz Simspons Golden Promise (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 39.9 %
1 lbs Simpsons Golden Oats (10.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.9 %
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6 6.9 %
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 41.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 81.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
14.4 oz Crystal 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.3 %
Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.082 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.079 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.9 %
Bitterness: 122.6 IBUs Calories: 268.5 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 7.9 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 6.4 oz
Sparge Water: 3.20 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 17.42 qt of water at 162.6 F 148.5 F 60 min
Sparge Step: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.23gal, 2.98gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
 
You can't clone Abrasive via the Extract method. Partial Mash will work; All Grain would be better.
You can however adjust the 90 minute boil to 60 minutes, if desired (see below). The key to this beer is the late hop additions.

Abrasive

Partial Mash BIAB Clone
1.081 OG / 1.015 FG
7.5 SRM
8.8% ABV
118-122 ish IBUs

55% Muntons Extra Light DME (Half as a Late Addition)
25% Simpsons Golden Promise (Mash @ 149 for 60 min)
10% Corn Sugar (Late Addition)
5% Simpsons Golden Naked Oats (Mash @ 149 for 60 min)
5% Briess Crystal 20L (Mash @ 149 for 60 min)

35-40 IBUs from Warrior pellets @ 60 min
30-40 IBUs from Warrior pellets @ 25 min
20-25 IBUs from Citra pellets @ 15 min
15-20 IBUs from Citra pellets @ 10 min
Post-Boil Aroma Steep with 0.40 oz. Citra pellets per gallon of beer @ 30 min
Dry Hop with 0.80 oz. Citra pellets per gallon of beer @ 10 days

WLP007 Starter @ 81% Attenuation

Whirlfloc
Yeast Nutrient
Gypsum
 
This beer has gotten very favorable reviews, even from BMC drinkers. I find it very surprising because this is one of the strongest and most bitter beers I've ever brewed. It's absolutely fantastic and unique. Clear as glass. I wonder if I should add more citra or not, I like this version quite a lot. I've never had a real Abrasive, so I can't comment on it's official status as a clone. At times, I think the golden naked oats, at 6.9%, are a bit too noticeable. At others (warm temps) not at all.



I wish someone had this clone recipe and a real Surly to see how they compare.
 
Looks good. I remember Abrasive being slightly darker and much hazier than that with a 2 finger head.
 
Well, that photo was from the end of the glass, after being in the glass for 15 minutes, hence the small ring of head. As far as the haze, I didn't use any fining agents, but it's been in the keg for a month. I wonder though if they do some sort of hop injection on the way into the bottle/keg/can.

It's hard to see color correctly in photograph, but you're right, the vast majority of photos of Abrasive are darker and slightly more orangey. I'll alter the recipe and brew it again whenever the abrasive hits the market again, I found a place that sells and ships it online when it's available, France44.com
 
You can't clone Abrasive via the Extract method. Partial Mash will work; All Grain would be better.
You can however adjust the 90 minute boil to 60 minutes, if desired (see below). The key to this beer is the late hop additions.

Abrasive

Partial Mash BIAB Clone
1.081 OG / 1.015 FG
7.5 SRM
8.8% ABV
118-122 ish IBUs

55% Muntons Extra Light DME (Half as a Late Addition)
25% Simpsons Golden Promise (Mash @ 149 for 60 min)
10% Corn Sugar (Late Addition)
5% Simpsons Golden Naked Oats (Mash @ 149 for 60 min)
5% Briess Crystal 20L (Mash @ 149 for 60 min)

35-40 IBUs from Warrior pellets @ 60 min
30-40 IBUs from Warrior pellets @ 25 min
20-25 IBUs from Citra pellets @ 15 min
15-20 IBUs from Citra pellets @ 10 min
Post-Boil Aroma Steep with 0.40 oz. Citra pellets per gallon of beer @ 30 min
Dry Hop with 0.80 oz. Citra pellets per gallon of beer @ 10 days

WLP007 Starter @ 81% Attenuation

Whirlfloc
Yeast Nutrient
Gypsum

This looks pretty good. I plan to start brewing again soon now that I have more time and this will definitely make my short-list of things to try. I've had a few successful partial-mash batches so that shouldn't be a problem. Thanks
 
I plan to brew this on Sunday as my first all-grain batch, hoping things go well. I can get Abrasive here where I live (in about 1.5 months) and will then get a chance to see how close the recipe is. Even if it is close to the real thing, i am sure it will be great. I don't think a guy can go wrong with Citra hops and Simpsons malt/oats!
 
This beer has gotten very favorable reviews, even from BMC drinkers. I find it very surprising because this is one of the strongest and most bitter beers I've ever brewed. It's absolutely fantastic and unique. Clear as glass. I wonder if I should add more citra or not, I like this version quite a lot. I've never had a real Abrasive, so I can't comment on it's official status as a clone. At times, I think the golden naked oats, at 6.9%, are a bit too noticeable. At others (warm temps) not at all.



I wish someone had this clone recipe and a real Surly to see how they compare.

I assume you made a starter?! If so, how large?
 
I brewed this a few weeks back, pitched a 2 liter starter. My original gravity was 1.072 so my efficiency was off so i added some extra light dme to kicked it up a few points, but not bad for my first all grain brew! I dry hopped in the secondary with 3 oz of citra for 7 days then added another ounce for the final 3 days. I roused the hops every few days. I bottled this stuff today and peeled off some for tasting. WOW! Just like the real thing, especially the smell, it is right on. As far as I can tell so far, the flavor is damn close, but I won't know for sure until its conditioned, I can't wait!
 
I brewed this a few weeks back, pitched a 2 liter starter. My original gravity was 1.072 so my efficiency was off so i added some extra light dme to kicked it up a few points, but not bad for my first all grain brew! I dry hopped in the secondary with 3 oz of citra for 7 days then added another ounce for the final 3 days. I roused the hops every few days. I bottled this stuff today and peeled off some for tasting. WOW! Just like the real thing, especially the smell, it is right on. As far as I can tell so far, the flavor is damn close, but I won't know for sure until its conditioned, I can't wait!

Awesome, you're lucky to have some real ones close by too. Glad your first all-grain went so well.
 
I brewed this a few weeks back, pitched a 2 liter starter. My original gravity was 1.072 so my efficiency was off so i added some extra light dme to kicked it up a few points, but not bad for my first all grain brew! I dry hopped in the secondary with 3 oz of citra for 7 days then added another ounce for the final 3 days. I roused the hops every few days. I bottled this stuff today and peeled off some for tasting. WOW! Just like the real thing, especially the smell, it is right on. As far as I can tell so far, the flavor is damn close, but I won't know for sure until its conditioned, I can't wait!

Nice, which recipe did you go with?
 
I brewed the all grain recipe posted by theveganbrewer on page 2 of this thread. It seemed to match Surlys ingredients (listed on the website) the closest and fits the pattern they use for all of their brews.

The real thing came out this past week and so I grabbed a 4 pack for comparison. The color and aroma are spot on, flavor comp is yet to come.
 
The key is definately mashing low though to achieve the proper dry characteristics of Abrasive. Mine is definately dry which for this beer is perfect. I started my mash (using a 10 gallon Coleman cooler) at just under 150 and after an hour it was down to 146.5. It attenuated all the way down to 1.011!
 
Thanks for the update on the real Abrasive, gotta keep my eye out for it online. I hope I can find an online retailer that'll have it in stock. I read they are running Abrasive from now through March.
 
Anybody else get that onion-like quality with Abrasive? When I do attempt to brew this, I'm gonna have a hard time not throwing some Summit hops in there.
 
Thanks for the update on the real Abrasive, gotta keep my eye out for it online. I hope I can find an online retailer that'll have it in stock. I read they are running Abrasive from now through March.

I've seen it at France44 before, last winter I think, but the shipping price kept me from ordering. Shipping beer across the country unfortunately can't be cheap.

Anybody else get that onion-like quality with Abrasive? When I do attempt to brew this, I'm gonna have a hard time not throwing some Summit hops in there.

I haven't tasted that in Abrasive, nor really heard it with the given hops. Normally I see that mentioned specifically with summit hopped beers like Gubna - do you want to add/enhance an onion type flavor?
 
I've seen it at France44 before, last winter I think, but the shipping price kept me from ordering. Shipping beer across the country unfortunately can't be cheap.



I haven't tasted that in Abrasive, nor really heard it with the given hops. Normally I see that mentioned specifically with summit hopped beers like Gubna - do you want to add/enhance an onion type flavor?

I don't want to add or change anything, Abrasive is probably the best IIPA I've ever had! My palate isn't perfect but I have personally gotten a slight hint of onion with Abrasive in the past which leads me to believe they may use some summit. I haven't gotten my hands on this years yet, maybe I need to refresh my memory :drunk:
 
Thanks for the update on the real Abrasive, gotta keep my eye out for it online. I hope I can find an online retailer that'll have it in stock. I read they are running Abrasive from now through March.

You would definitely be blown away by it. I have had many good IIPA's, but Abrasive is on a whole other planet, all alone. I would be happy to grab you some and work out a trade if you would like. PM me for more info if you are interested...
 
Summit is really strong in the onion/garlic department. There are some other hops that can produce onion in a slightly more subdued manner, and Citra is a hop that can actually have oniony notes and Columbus too sometimes.
 
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