Any body brew sour beers in "plastic"?

I have a lot of fermenters; loads of buckets, a couple 14 gallon drums, and a Stainless Steel Blichmann.

I want to brew a sour but I really don't want to use the Conical for the many months it takes for a sour to set up.

I also don't want to risk contaminating it, forcing me to clean it over and over trying to get the "little beasties" out.

I don't use carboys (they are a pain to clean) so I have none available and I have never had a problem with oxidization. I usually only let my ales sit no more than 6 weeks in plastic and then keg.

SO: I want to dedicate a few buckets to SOUR production.

I was wondering if any one does this?

I ask because I think the amount of O2 that passes through the plastic will not cause a problem for an "active beer".

Happy Friday.

I think that will not be a problem. Just label the buckets and only use them for souring not your regular beers. I think it'll will hold the O2 out of the beer if you do not open them much during the process

DisturbdChemist said:

I think that will not be a problem. Just label the buckets and only use them for souring not your regular beers. I think it'll will hold the O2 out of the beer if you do not open them much during the process

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I never open them, well almost never...

I think I will give this a try and let'em go for about six months.

DPB

Some people have issues with acetic acid production when using buckets - I'd make sure they are as air-tight as possible, or invest in a couple Better Bottles strictly for sours.

i would take extra care in sealing up the buckets. saran wrap is very impermeable - i would consider wrapping the lid/bucket interface to prevent any air from getting in there. hell, i'd consider wrapping the whole bucket - that plastic bucket is every so slightly breathable so some O2 will be entering through the bucket's walls.

i wonder if there is anything you can paint or coat a bucket with to make it impermeable? latex, shellac, spray-on plastic of some sort, etc.

none if this is a problem if you like truly sour beers (acetic acid).

sweetcell said:

i would take extra care in sealing up the buckets. saran wrap is very impermeable - i would consider wrapping the lid/bucket interface to prevent any air from getting in there. hell, i'd consider wrapping the whole bucket - that plastic is every so slightly breathable so some O2 will be entering through the bucket's walls.

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I like the idea...

I have in the past put a bucket in a Contractor-Bag just in case the thing went "wild" but I let it breathe.

I could do the same here and after primary fermentation tie it off real tight. , it might act as an addtional layer of protection.

I left a Flanders in a bucket for almost a year and it developed little if any acetic character. I think you'll be fine. But I also like the saran wrap idea. I will likely try that next time.

DPBISME said:

I like the idea...

I have in the past put a bucket in a Contractor-Bag just in case the thing went "wild" but I let it breathe.

I could do the same here and after primary fermentation tie it off real tight. , it might act as an addtional layer of protection.

Click to expand...

not sure how effective a large garbage bag would be... we're talking air on the microscopic level here. if there is still air between the bag and the bucket you will have made little to no difference. the things about cling wrap or a paint/spay-on seal is that you're getting right down against the bucket surface.

Buy some better bottles. Bucket aged beer doesn't taste any better than it sounds.

sweetcell said:

i would take extra care in sealing up the buckets. saran wrap is very impermeable - i would consider wrapping the lid/bucket interface to prevent any air from getting in there. hell, i'd consider wrapping the whole bucket - that plastic bucket is every so slightly breathable so some O2 will be entering through the bucket's walls.

i wonder if there is anything you can paint or coat a bucket with to make it impermeable? latex, shellac, spray-on plastic of some sort, etc.

none if this is a problem if you like truly sour beers (acetic acid).

Click to expand...

Sours do well in barrels and they let in a lot more air than a bucket should.

bovineblitz said:

Sours do well in barrels and they let in a lot more air than a bucket should.

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Only the small hobbyist barrels are more O2 permeable than buckets, at least according to the table in wild brews.

I read somewhere on here that a tiny amount of 02 that is let through a plastic bucket keeps a sour from being boring, gives it a little something. The guy won an award with the one, and figured the one he did in the glass carboy wasn't as good for this reason. I don't know personally though, I'm a noob who reads a lot of forum posts and wishes the search function could pull this thread out for you...
edit -
"For a homebrewer, no extra special equipment is needed. While oak is desired for its oxygen transporting abilities — and widely used in commercial brewing — plastic is an acceptable substitute as it has a permeable membrane allowing oxygen transport as well. If plastic buckets are used, oak chips can be added as a flavoring compound that also provides some tannins."
From this article
http://byo.com/recipe-calculations/item/307-brewing-sour-beers-tips-from-the-pros
Not the one I was looking for but I hope it helps.

bovineblitz said:

Sours do well in barrels and they let in a lot more air than a bucket should.

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It seems that wooden barrels would let in a lot of O2, but it is actually quite the opposite, by volume a 5 gallon bucket is about 27x more oxygen permeable than a 55-60 gallon wine barrel.

TNGabe said:

Only the small hobbyist barrels are more O2 permeable than buckets, at least according to the table in wild brews.

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This. In Wild Brews, Sparrow cites this Raj Apte table from a powerpoint on his website (screencap below).

lebucheron said:

I read somewhere on here that a tiny amount of 02 that is let through a plastic bucket keeps a sour from being boring, gives it a little something. The guy won an award with the one, and figured the one he did in the glass carboy wasn't as good for this reason. I don't know personally though, I'm a noob who reads a lot of forum posts and wishes the search function could pull this thread out for you...

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I think you might be referring to AmandaK's Lambic thread. She did start her award winner out in plastic for primary but then transferred to glass for aging, if I recall correctly. Her second one that wasn't as good was glass all the way and she attributed the difference to the O2 permeability of the plastic during primary. But I don't believe she aged either in plastic (I didn't go back and reread the thread so I could be wrong.)

I would think Better Bottles would be a pretty good bet-ever so slightly O2 permeable but not nearly as much so as plastic buckets.

bovineblitz said:

Sours do well in barrels and they let in a lot more air than a bucket should.

Click to expand...

If you get a good seal and don't open it, plastic buckets are fine. Have a bad seal or keep opening it, and I think you are asking for trouble.

I've done several in plastic (not buckets) and they have been fine.

Yeah, I just tasted an 8-month old sour brown I have in a bucket - going strong with no problems.

todd46 said:

Yeah, I just tasted an 8-month old sour brown I have in a bucket - going strong with no problems.

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How much headspace do you have? Just wondering. I have an older Ale Pale I have been thinking about retiring, maybe this would be good retirement for it.

mb82 said:

How much headspace do you have? Just wondering. I have an older Ale Pale I have been thinking about retiring, maybe this would be good retirement for it.

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Quite a bit really, standard 5-gallon batch so there's probably a good 5 inches of headspace in the bucket. This is also an older Ale Pale, so its been around the block, but when I opened it today no pellicle even. It has a good seal. This batch is with Roeselare and to be honest it hardly had any sour notes at 8 months, certainly no acetic character. I say go for it, put that Ale Pale to work.

I was recently listening to The Brewing Network Podcast where Jamil was discussing his method for brewing his award winning Flanders Red. He mentions that he ferments with yeast first, then racks to a plastic bucket and pitches Roselare. Jamil leaves the beer in the plastic bucket for 6 months then racks to a carboy for a further 6 months aging. If I remember correctly, he claimed the bucket provided the optimal oxygen for pelicle formation and slight acedic flavor he wanted.
Podcast
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/membersarchive/Jamil01-29-07.mp3

Recipe
http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/JamilsFlandersRedAle.htm