What is a craft beer???

Ok a few months ago I tried Bud's American Ale which sucked (worse than a regular BMC) and Friday I tried a Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale which tasted very similar the the Bud American Ale. I could drink it but didn't like it a bit. I am warming up to pale ales which makes me think I'm starting to become more of a fan of highly hopped beers (the SN pale ale was my favorite of the 6'er) but I have a feeling the flavor I didn't like in the Celebration Ale / American Ale was the cascade hops possibly. I did notice that the Celebration ale was labeled as a craft beer featuring cascade hops. So help me understand exactly what it was I didn't like.

Craft beer is basically just a term given to breweries that put out too much product to be called microbreweries anymore, but still make "real" beer (not BMC). Sam Adams is known as a craft brewery.

If you are just getting into beer, then I recommend trying SN Celebration Ale again next year. I'm willing to bet you will regret comparing it to Bud Ale

Craft beer... its another way to say home brew or micro brew... tend to be a certin style which isnt massivly produced because its complicated and requires extra care to detail that we HB'ers do every brew we do... or atleast thats the way i think of it

Cheers

BrewinJack said:

Craft beer... its another way to say home brew or micro brew... tend to be a certin style which isnt massivly produced because its complicated and requires extra care to detail that we HB'ers do every brew we do... or atleast thats the way i think of it

Cheers

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One of my best friends is a brewmaster for one of the BMC breweries and I can assure you that complication has nothing to do with it. He has a Masters Degree in Microbiology and has forgotten more about brewing than 99% of the experts on here know. I am not saying this to take anything away from this wonderful group of people, but it's a whole different ballgame. He'd love to have the lattitude to produce higher quality beers, but that is not what they do. At the end of the day, they are making a product that is marketed to the masses and requires a healthy profit margin to stay in business.

FWIW, he is also a home brewer in his spare time and his product at home in no way resembles that at work.

Craft brews, micro brews, to me, as long as there is some extra care put into the product, and the end results are not pale, tasteless, kidney wash, a good brew is a good brew. wow, too many comma's.

joety said:

One of my best friends is a brewmaster for one of the BMC breweries and I can assure you that complication has nothing to do with it. He has a Masters Degree in Microbiology and has forgotten more about brewing than 99% of the experts on here know. I am not saying this to take anything away from this wonderful group of people, but it's a whole different ballgame.

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You are completely right. The BMC beers are some of the hardest to replicate because they are so light (both in color and flavor) so any little mistake shows up. Very unforgiving.

So I wonder what exactly I didn't like about the SN celebration ale and the Bud American Ale.

zanemoseley said:

So I wonder what exactly I didn't like about the SN celebration ale and the Bud American Ale.

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Well, I'm guessing you didn't like the Budweiser Ale because it is crap

I suspect you are not that keen on hops. Try a more malty beer. A winter ale or something. I can't help you with a commercial brew suggestion, I don't buy too many.

joety said:

One of my best friends is a brewmaster for one of the BMC breweries and I can assure you that complication has nothing to do with it. He has a Masters Degree in Microbiology and has forgotten more about brewing than 99% of the experts on here know. I am not saying this to take anything away from this wonderful group of people, but it's a whole different ballgame. He'd love to have the lattitude to produce higher quality beers, but that is not what they do. At the end of the day, they are making a product that is marketed to the masses and requires a healthy profit margin to stay in business.

FWIW, he is also a home brewer in his spare time and his product at home in no way resembles that at work.

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Ummm, what does this have to do with craft brews???

zanemoseley said:

So I wonder what exactly I didn't like about the SN celebration ale and the Bud American Ale.

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I am wondering that too, because they are nothing alike. Maybe you don't like American hops? But then, the American Ale doesn't have all that much hop flavor to it.

I'd suggest trying some English, German or Belgian-style beers and see what you think about those.

BrewinJack said:

Ummm, what does this have to do with craft brews???

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I thought we were contrasting craft beers to BMC?

zanemoseley said:

So I wonder what exactly I didn't like about the SN celebration ale and the Bud American Ale.

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Trying to help a person figure out what tastes they don't like is like trying to describe red to a blind person, or jazz to a deaf one...It's hard because things that are sense driven, including our tastes, are really subjective....Personal.

For example, although you and Parker don't like Bud Ale, I don't think it's that bad...I think it's surprisingly malty and flavorful for a macro production...so I will drink it on occasion....and at the same time I see nothing wrong with spending 17 dollars on a 4 pack of something by Dogfish Head....And I love extremely hoppy beers as well...

I think what you need to do is find a store that allows for doing mixed sixers of micro brew, it's a good way to try different styles and it's often a couple bucks or more cheaper than buying an entire sixer of one micro...for example I can get a six pack of bell's two hearted for about 12 bucks...but at the same beer store they have a cooler for 9.99 mix and match....and you never know what they will stick in there...so if I'm not in the mood for something in particular or feel like expanding my horizons and not risking an entire six of something I might not like.

So far I've only had a couple bottles of something that I could say I wouldn't have again.

But I've also discovered a bunch of new breweries that I might not have if their beer was in the 12-15 dollar a six.

And I've also gotten turned on by a few beers in styles I never thought I'd try...Like Vienna Lagers....I've never been a fan of the fizzy yellow type of lagers, but damn those brown, malty Vienna ones are fantastic.

If you have a Trader Joe's in your town they usually allow for mixed sixer filling as well.

Grab as many different styles as you can get (and then if you like a certain style go back and get as many different versions of the samestyle.)

THen look up the info on the beer and the style at BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Index

It will help you get a handle on the different ingredients that go into the beer...plus you can usually google the beer and find out sepcific ingredients like the hops or grains...

Sierra Nevada's site gives a great deal of info on their beers, including the hops, malts, gravity, etc...http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/paleale.html

You may then be able to figure out what specifically you like or dislike about a certain style or a certain beer (like you might not like cascade hops...but like fuggles,) it wouldn't hurt to take notes on the beers...

Also don't neglect the micro versions of the macro beer styll, the American Pilsner...or Light lager...you would be surprised how different a micro brew version of the same beer like budweiser actualy tastes. I know I did...I skipped over a whole style of beers just because of BMC, but I've been grabbing any american pilsners put out by micros that end up in the cooler...many still taste like piss to me, but there have been a few surprises....Like American versions of Vienna Lagers...I am a new convert.

And because of doing this I also brewed my first lager as well (Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde pitched with Saflager)....And so far, based on the hydro samples....It going to be amazing...and much better, to me, than a Bud...or a genny cream.

Anyway, you are going to have to do some tasting (not a ad thing to do) and some research into what is in the beer you like and dislike. That way you can build up a vocabulary of what pleases you, and then you can buy commercial versions or brew your own.

Hope this helps!

joety said:

I thought we were contrasting craft beers to BMC?

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ohhh i get it... cool

Cheers

Revvy said:

Trying to help a person figure out what tastes they don't like is like trying to describe red to a blind person, or jazz to a deaf one...It's hard because things that are sense driven, including our tastes, are really subjective....Personal.

For example, although you and Parker don't like Bud Ale, I don't think it's that bad...I think it's surprisingly malty and flavorful for a macro production...so I will drink it on occasion....and at the same time I see nothing wrong with spending 17 dollars on a 4 pack of something by Dogfish Head....And I love extremely hoppy beers as well...

I think what you need to do is find a store that allows for doing mixed sixers of micro brew, it's a good way to try different styles and it's often a couple bucks or more cheaper than buying an entire sixer of one micro...for example I can get a six pack of bell's two hearted for about 12 bucks...but at the same beer store they have a cooler for 9.99 mix and match....and you never know what they will stick in there...so if I'm not in the mood for something in particular or feel like expanding my horizons and not risking an entire six of something I might not like.

So far I've only had a couple bottles of something that I could say I wouldn't have again.

But I've also discovered a bunch of new breweries that I might not have if their beer was in the 12-15 dollar a six.

And I've also gotten turned on by a few beers in styles I never thought I'd try...Like Vienna Lagers....I've never been a fan of the fizzy yellow type of lagers, but damn those brown, malty Vienna ones are fantastic.

If you have a Trader Joe's in your town they usually allow for mixed sixer filling as well.

Grab as many different styles as you can get (and then if you like a certain style go back and get as many different versions of the samestyle.)

THen look up the info on the beer and the style at BJCP 2008 Style Guidelines - Index

It will help you get a handle on the different ingredients that go into the beer...plus you can usually google the beer and find out sepcific ingredients like the hops or grains...

You may then be able to figure out what specifically you like or dislike about a certain style or a certain beer (like you might not like cascade hops...but like fuggles,) it wouldn't hurt to take notes on the beers...

Also don't neglect the micro versions of the macro beer styll, the American Pilsner...or Light lager...you would be surprised how different a micro brew version of the same beer like budweiser actualy tastes. I know I did...I skipped over a whole style of beers just because of BMC, but I've been grabbing any american pilsners put out by micros that end up in the cooler...many still taste like piss to me, but there have been a few surprises....Like American versions of Vienna Lagers...I am a new convert.

And because of doing this I also brewed my first lager as well (Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde pitched with Saflager)....And so far, based on the hydro samples....It going to be amazing...and much better, to me, than a Bud...or a genny cream.

Anyway, you are going to have to do some tasting (not a ad thing to do) and some research into what is in the beer you like and dislike. That way you can build up a vocabulary of what pleases you, and then you can buy commercial versions or brew your own.

Hope this helps!

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Well said Revy as usal

Cheers

zanemoseley said:

Friday I tried a Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale which tasted very similar the the Bud American Ale.

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Did I just read this correctly? SNCA is no way in the same tastes as BAA. Did you not taste how SNCA actually has hops where as the BAA lacks them?

Well I tried the SNCA this weekend and the BAA several months ago so I must be off on my comparison of the two however when I took a sip of the SN I had an immediate reaction to compare it to the Bud Ale from many moons ago.

Revvy thanks for the reply, the are several tobacco/beverage shops in town that have the mix and match 6 packs. I've been trying many different types and brands of beer over the past several weeks. I can tell that different breweries have strenghts in different style beers too, for instance one brewery may have an awesome wheat where brewery B may just be so-so.

The term "craft" is a buzz word. Used to separate themselves from BMC. To somehow say "we're better cuz we're not so big". Much like "artisanal" (if that is the correct spelling) in referrence to bread. If you make bread with all kinds of junk stuck on it and there are big holes in it, it is "artisanal". I am a home brewer so I am a "crafter" of beers. Ergo, I am inherently more better BMC.

And keep trying those six-pack mixers. There are better beers to be had. And some that are indeed worse. Sierra Nevada stout has too much ashtray for my tastes.

No spell checkers or grammatical checkers injured in the making of this post.

IowaHarry said:

The term "craft" is a buzz word. Used to separate themselves from BMC. To somehow say "we're better cuz we're not so big". Much like "artisanal" (if that is the correct spelling) in referrence to bread. If you make bread with all kinds of junk stuck on it and there are big holes in it, it is "artisanal". I am a home brewer so I am a "crafter" of beers. Ergo, I am inherently more better BMC.

And keep trying those six-pack mixers. There are better beers to be had. And some that are indeed worse. Sierra Nevada stout has too much ashtray for my tastes.

No spell checkers or grammatical checkers injured in the making of this post.

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Not necessarily...the following is taken from the Brewers Association website:

"Craft Brewer Definitions

An American craft brewer is small, independent, and traditional.

Small: Annual production of beer less than 2 million barrels. Beer production is attributed to a brewer according to the rules of alternating proprietorships. Flavored malt beverages are not considered beer for purposes of this definition.

Independent: Less than 25% of the craft brewery is owned or controlled (or equivalent economic interest) by an alcoholic beverage industry member who is not themselves a craft brewer.

Traditional: A brewer who has either an all malt flagship (the beer which represents the greatest volume among that brewers brands) or has at least 50% of it’s volume in either all malt beers or in beers which use adjuncts to enhance rather than lighten flavor.

The following are some concepts related to craft beer and craft brewers:

Craft brewers are smaller brewers. Small brewers are defined as those who qualify for the Tax and Trade Bureau's small brewers excise tax differential by producing less than 2 million barrels annually.
The hallmark of craft beer and craft brewers is innovation. Craft brewers interpret historic styles with unique twists and develop new styles that have no precedent. Craft beer is generally made with traditional ingredients like malted barley; interesting and sometimes non-traditional ingredients are often added for distinctiveness.
Craft Brewers tend to be very involved in their communities through philanthropy, product donations, volunteerism, and sponsorship of events.
Craft Brewers have distinctive, individualistic approaches to connecting with their customers.
Craft Brewers maintain integrity by what they brew and their general independence, free from a substantial interest by a non-craft brewer.
The majority of Americans live within ten miles of a craft brewer."

GloHoppa said:

Not necessarily...the following is taken from the Brewers Association website:

"Craft Brewer Definitions

An American craft brewer is small, independent, and traditional.

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The interesting this is that in some parts of the world, especially Australia and New Zealand, Craft Brewing is the appelation for the All Grain hobbyist who brews at home...this is to distance themselves from decades of "homebrewing" which they mean as the kit and kilo brewer who dumps a pound of sugar into their cooper's kits.

The extract with grains or PM brewer exists to them in som egray area of the hobby.

And to them the independant small breweries are also craft brewers, or Micro breweries...

But you don't ever call an All Grainer a Homebrewer down under, he/she'd a Craftbrewer...

It's hard to keep their delineations straight listenning to the podcasts @ CraftBrewer Radio but they will on occasion go into tirades about it.

It just occured to me that this is a CAMRA debate for Americans

[deleted - I just found the forum's Ignore list functionality ]

It actually sounds more like the OP isn't into ale as much as lager. Of course that's a gross over simplification but it's probably having more to do with the fruity ester quality of most ale yeast. To try a few ales that are completely outside of APA/IPA territory, try a brown ale, porter or ESB. To confirm if it's lagers (in general) that you like, grab some Pilsner Urquell, Bock, Helles, Marzen, etc.

Well, the comparison between Bud Ale and Celebration is way off, but most here already know that. It's very easy to assume they taste the same if it's been a while, and if you are averse to hops. However, I think that most people here would say that Bud Ale has enough hops to make it drinkable, while Celebration has just enough hops toe keep it from being an IPA style, but not by much.

Personally, I'd drink Bud Ale if that were the best being offered, but I'd go out of my way to drink a celebration. I'm a big fan of that kind and amount of hops.

If you want to learn to appreciate hoppy beers, I suggest buying a 6-pack of good strong IPA and drink one or two a day until it's gone. This will lower desensitize your tastebuds from the shock, and might allow you to taste the subtleness that you can find within the hops bitterness. At least once the bitterness isn't quite so bitter.

I also disliked IPAs and hoppy beers, but have since learned to love them. You can too!

+1 on the getting mixed beers. There are many many styles out there and there are bound to be several that you love once you taste them.

Microbrewery: Up to 15,000 barrels per year.
Craft Brewery: Between 15,000 and 2,000,000 barrels per year.
Commercial Brewery:Anything over 2,000,000 barrels per year.

Source: Craft Brewer Definition

I read this in Papazian's book also.

Phill

My 2 Cents:

Maybe the OP was finding similar flavors in the wide spectrum of beer tasting. While most of us don't find them similar in the least (seriously, that is quite a stretch), some people may find some similar tastes as they are both ales brewed here in the US. They both have a slightly hopped and malty flavor to them. Clearly SNCA has a million times more hops than BAA (crap IMO) and is brewed on a little smaller of a scale, the beers can have a similar taste to them in some people's perspectives.

I think that Bobby M may be on the right track. Maybe the OP likes the lighter feel/flavor of Lager.

i know this is a little but the 2009 Craft Brewers Conference is going to be held in Boston this year...its also the week of my birthday

Was there a born-on-date on the Sierra Nevada? Maybe you got an old 6-pack where the hops flavor has dropped out considerably.