Chill Haze - I think I fixed It!

After trying the same recipe 6 times with very slight adjustment (at the recommendation of many, using different mash techniques and temps, etc)...I think it's gone!

I went to Lowe's this afternoon and bought the parts to filter the beer! :rockin: HAHA. If it's ok for commercial breweries large and small to filter their beer, it's cool with me! I'll get some pics posted up later of the equipment I used, but I basically used my Co2 tank to pressurize the BetterBottle secondary via the 2nd hole on the carboy cap. The pressure (set to a little under 5psi) made the transfer FAST! It filled the filter housing within moments and the beer was drained from the carboy completely within 2 minutes or so. I even sucked up some of the trub at the bottom just to see how the filter handled it (no problem BTW!)

I've got the keg set to higher pressure and near freezing right now and I'll try one either late tonight or tomorrow evening. That should be just carbonated enough to be interesting. I'm hoping for crystal clear beer even at near freezing temps.

I transferred/filtered at near freezing temps BTW. I figured that would help the filter with any chill haze there could be

I'm stoked!

I've been having this very thought....Extra step, and totally unnecessary...but what do I have that is actually Necessary?

Must have been some filter to do it that fast. I think the filter might not have been small enough to filter out chill haze, cuz most chill haze is caused by protiens that are very small. Probably too small to be filtered out with anything higher than at least a 2 micron filter.
This is only from my recollection and not gospel so yrmv.

Also you may get some oxidation from filtering. I did filter my beer at one point, but gave up on it being an unnesessary step that could cause more problems that I had hoped to cure. Now I just lager it so the haze falls out of solution or I fine it.

curious to see this contraption. and wondering how you hooked up a pressure hose to the other port of the carboy cap. worm clamp?

blacklab said:

curious to see this contraption. and wondering how you hooked up a pressure hose to the other port of the carboy cap. worm clamp?

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With the Euro filter I have you just stick the small hose inside the second carboy cap opening and clamp it securely. It isn't like you are jacking up the pressure so much that it will pop it out.

It filters down to 5 microns as it comes out of the box, and I can purchase a 2 micron filter if needed. I think 5 will be plenty.

To hook it up the the carboy cap, I bought a 3/8"x3/8" barbed connector and slid one end into the cap's port and clamped, and the pressure from the Co2 tank to the other side of that barb'd fitting also clamped. I had to hold the carboy cap onto the BetterBottle, as the pressure inside tried to blow the cap right off. Next time I will have a larger clamp so that I can use my hands somewhere else. I'm not worried at all about oxidation here. I've TRIED to get oxidation in my beers throughout the brewing process to see if it was really possible at the home-brew level. I couldn't ever make it happen enough to taste it.

I lagered this beer for a solid month before filtering (as I have with my other 6 attempts with no luck). I've also long-term lagered this in the bottle for up to 6 months and it did not help the chill haze issues I have been fighting. This was my last ditch effort at a malt with VERY high protein levels. Future bags will be more thought out to ensure there are no issues like this.

In this one, you can kind of see the pressure side hooked up to the carboy cap. One clamp on each end of the barbed fitting. Also note the tubing off the racking cane going directly into the filter. Lastly: some chips, hot sauce, and queso in the background.



Just a little closer, poor lighting.




Lowe's was out of the 3/4" MPT to 3/8" barbed fitting. So it goes 3/4"MPT to 1/2" barbed...some 1/2" tubing...then a 1/2" barbed to 3/8" barbed adapter. The same fittings are on the other side of the filter. That tubing out of the filter goes directly into the keg. Note I used the "out" side of the filter as the inlet. This is because I wanted the unfiltered beer to enter the center of the filter and then come out to where I could see it clear. Doesn't matter which route you go, it works the same. She's not pretty, yet, but very functional! When I find a 3/4" MPT to 3/8" barbed fitting, I'll clean this up.



SWMBO helping with the clean-up. I will figure out a way to get the last quart of beer out of the filter. This much was wasted today because I didn't tighten the top part of the assembly tight enough and when I tried to turn it upside down, it just spilled everywhere.



Finished/polished beer pics coming in the next few days!

I have done this many times it will polish the beer and any yeast in it but it will not remove protein haze.

The only way to remove that is by doing a proper protein rest long boil and use finnings after you crash cool

Try Polyclar. That stuff rocks! Used it on half of a ten gallon batch a few months ago. Half with was crystal clear, half without was hazy. I should have taken pics.

brewjunky said:

I have done this many times it will polish the beer and any yeast in it but it will not remove protein haze.

The only way to remove that is by doing a proper protein rest long boil and use finnings after you crash cool

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I've done every imaginable rest combo including the malster's recommendation of a low temp protease rest at about 106º before stepping to the standard protein rest, etc. No help. I've used IrishMoss, SuperMoss, etc in the boil. No help. I've tried different water treatment for the mash/sparge. No help. I've cold crashed and tried gelatin. No help. This will work. I had it cooled to 34º at the time I transferred to ensure any of those proteins would be in a chill haze state. I also poured a glass last night. It was 99% clear!

jacksonbrown said:

Or Polyclar. That stuff rocks! Used it on half of a ten gallon batch a few months ago. Half with was crystal clear, half without was hazy. I should have taken pics.

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Polyclar is the only run of the mill every-day fining I haven't tried yet. I've been reading about bentonite. And although it is rarely used in beers, wine makers use it for their protein issues with tremendous results!

Nice rig! That is a very cool setup.

INeedANewHobby said:

I've done every imaginable rest combo including the malster's recommendation of a low temp protease rest at about 106º before stepping to the standard protein rest, etc. No help. I've used IrishMoss, SuperMoss, etc in the boil. No help. I've tried different water treatment for the mash/sparge. No help. I've cold crashed and tried gelatin. No help. This will work. I had it cooled to 34º at the time I transferred to ensure any of those proteins would be in a chill haze state. I also poured a glass last night. It was 99% clear!



Polyclar is the only run of the mill every-day fining I haven't tried yet. I've been reading about bentonite. And although it is rarely used in beers, wine makers use it for their protein issues with tremendous results!

Click to expand...

Use insinglass but use it after you crash cool the beer. It is the best option to remove protein Haze

The colder the better and keep the beer cold after using it. This will leave you crystal clear beer

I think Krotchrott did something similar. Its on the lower half of the page.

Thanks BrewJunky. I'll have to try it sometime!

FishinDave07: It appears (didn't read because I'm late for work) that Krotchrott used his for a hop infusion in a similar fashion to what DogFishHead does, rather than using it to filter the beer.If you search, you'll find brewery tour pics where they use a setup like that to get the freshest hop aroma possible for some of the beers on tap at their pub! Very cool idea though, and I might do that if the chill haze is fixed by other methods that I haven't tried yet.

Yeah, i know he uses it for as a "hop bomb" but if you page down almost to the bottom he slaps a filter on it or something .

EDIT: Here's a more direct link: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...n=013A103C-9A13-4FBA-957B8DADAEE69E6D64834671

You could always just leave the keg in the fridge for 2 weeks.

Ahh, yes that is the same basic filter setup!

Mew: I've tried lagering this cream ale for up to 6 months without disturbing it AT ALL. It didn't help. This chill haze is the worst I've seen, and it seems to have been from the high protein levels in the bag of malt I purchased. I've tried it all (minus Polyclar), trust me!

Are you sure it's not starch haze? Chill haze should settle out rather quickly at fridge temps. Highly hopped or dryhopped beers can have a permanent haze as well. If you lagered for 6 months to no avail, I doubt the haze is chill haze. Is it hazy at room temp?

It is VERY clear at room temps.The cream ale was not real highly hopped and no dry hops. An APA did the same haze. Also a Kolsch. The only thing that was the same for each batch was the base grain.

Well that is some crazy chill haze! What base grain was it? You chill after the boil pretty quickly right? My setup takes 10-15 minutes to chill the wort to 65 degrees and when I don't use irish moss, I get some chill haze that goes away after a couple weeks in the fridge. It would seem that filtering shouldn't be necessary, but I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

Yes, I typically am able to chill from boiling to under 70º in under 10 minutes. I whirlpool and let settle and pull the wort off the trub, etc. I tried it all, and have used almost this entire 55lb bag. Every batch made with this has been hazed at cooler temps. I've had several threads here and on other big forums, been in contact with the maltser about the issue, and have not found the magical way to brew a clear beer with this malt. I've never had a cloudy beer until this bag!

It was schreier 2-row.

INeedANewHobby said:

It was schreier 2-row.

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Get a better malt. This one has up to 13.5% protein. More than most wheat malts and even more than most good barley malts. (Malt Analysis - Cargill Malt Specialty Products Group)

I remember seeing a post on this or the NB forum regarding the same problem.

A protein rest may also help. But getting a different malt will be easier than making this malt work for you.

And those water filters won't take out chill haze. 2 micron doesn't even mean that it won't let anything larger than 2 micron pass. The 2 microns are a nominal value meaning it will take out most of the particles larger than 2 micron. I have that set-up as well and getting the oxygen out of it is a pain that keeps me from using it unless I really have to.

Kai

I used a 1 micron. They work great but they do not remove the chill haze.

That is a cool setup, I bought a filter system around 5 years ago, and have used it 3 times. I found time and trying to learn patience works just as well. But when you don't have the time, your system looks a LOT cheaper than mine.
Thanks for sharing the rig, set-up, ect. I think this should be added as a Wiki sub-section at least.

Yea, I've only got enough malt left for one more batch and then I'll be getting something different. I got it on a deal through our local brewery, but at the time didn't know anything about malt analysis and profiles. I learned that by now The low temp protease and higher protein rests have not helped significantly.

The filter did though! The beer is 98% clear, which is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than before filtering! I'll try to post a pic tonight.

In case that has not been said yet in this thread.

DO NOT use this set-up with a glass carboy. The CO2 pressure can easily be high enough for the carboy to burst and the cap may not come off before that pressure is reached.

Kai

Thanks for the warning.