Double IPA Stone Enjoy By IPA

I used Wyeast 1098 British Ale because the brew store was out of 0007. He told me they were close to the same.

I have been assuming it was from the hops. I had about a 50/50 mix of pellets and whole hops if that matters.
Mine has been bottled for 4-5 weeks now.

Going to be hard to add gelatin to bottled beer. Drink it from opaque plastic or stoneware!

bobo31 said:

I was hoping some one could help me understand where I went wrong with this recipe. Mine can out looking like mud puddle water. I accidentally mixed up my malts and used pilsner malt in place of one of the 2 base malts in the recipe. I don't remember which got replaced by the pilsner malt as it was some time ago. The beer tastes great, no off flavors, but the color is far from appealing. Pilsner malt wouldn't cause this would it?

What could have caused this? Just trying to understand. Mash ph was around 5.3-5.4, I used Bru'n water pale ale profile. This is the only beer I have brewed that came out look so ugly.

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Same thing happened to me. First time ever and I've brewed about 10+ IPA's. I wish I would've added Whirlflock or gelatin. It has nothing to do with your mix-up. The beer will settle but it'll take awhile......probably 3 weeks or so but that was from a keg. I was worried too but just waited it out.

What do you mean by the color is far from appealing? It's light? Dark? Hazy? Pilsner malt has more protein than most other malts.

In the end, does it taste good? If so, does it really matter what it looks like?

It tastes great. I am just trying to understand why it was muddy looking. Literally looks like a glass of Mississippi River water. Very brown and muddy looking. It won't stop me from drinking it that's for sure but when you hand some one a glass that looks like mud puddle water its kind of embarrassing. I have brewed about 20+ IPA's and have never saw anything close to this. I am chalking it up to the Pilsner malt or the hops.

Pilsner hops can cause a protein haze like a Hefeweizen but shouldn't cause "mud" looks. The hops can seem to cause chunks in very high amounts like a heady topper or similar brews (HT also has yeast in suspension).

Can you post a picture for us?

Here is a pic of what I am talking about

I am going to go with protein haze... possibly tons of yeast particulate that is mixed up in the beer.

Is the beer clear in the bottle?

Is it clear at any point in your process? Sometimes you can get protein haze (chill haze) with large amounts of protein in your beer (from say pilsener malt).

How does it taste?

@bobo31 What that looks like to me is like the fermenter was agitated prior to racking and/or you sucked up a ton of trub when racking. Maybe fermentation was not fully complete. How many days did you ferment and at what temperature? How many days from grain to glass?

Did you taste the wort after the mash? Was it sweet? There could be a ton of residual starches in the beer.


Protein haze is usually not as drastic as that. His beer looks like straight up Yoo-hoo.

Example of protein haze:

bobo31 said:

Here is a pic of what I am talking about

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That's what my beer looked like immediately after shaking CO2 into solution in one of my kegs. I'm thinking there's a ton of yeast suspended there.

Is the beer clear in the bottle?

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Nope.

Is it clear at any point in your process?

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I honestly can't say.

His beer looks like straight up Yoo-hoo

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Funniest comment ever, i might have to add this to my signature!

Did you taste the wort after the mash?

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I did not tast the wort.

So looking back at my notes. I used 8.25lbs of Marris Otter and 9lbs of Pilsen malt. Yeast was pitched 12/28/14, Racked to Secondary 1/13/15 and Bottled 1/18/15. So that is 3 weeks grain to glass. Fermented at about 60-64 The taste isn't bad but its not as hoppy as I would expect compared to my other IPAs especially with the amount of hops in this beet. I will give it the award of my worst IPA since going all RO water. However I have had very picky drinkers say it was good.

Also my O.G. was 1.086 and my F.G. was 1.020

To the OP, (Ive never mash hopped if it is apparent from this question), at what point did you add the mash hops to the mash? Did they go in when you doughed in? Or at a certain point during the mash? Gonna try brewing this next weekend

bobo - I'm not sure what's up with that brew, but I strongly suspect something went wrong with your process. not too state the obvious, but Im not surprised it tastes bad. i wonder if it's some sort of random infection?

That looks like the last pour from a keg when it kicks ... I see yeast and possibly hop particles in suspension and yeah that is scary. Sorry.

Have you opened bottles from different points of the bottling session?

Have you tried cold crashing some bottles? Get them below 40 for a week straight and then very carefully pour without agitating the sediment, etc.

It also didn't ferment dry enough If you finished at 1.020...

I have been drinking this for a few weeks and have seen no change in the color. I have had bottles in the fridge for at least a week and that changed nothing. I thought the F.G. was a little high but having never used this British yeast before I wasn't sure if that was normal. Maybe I will have to give this another try in the near future and use the right malt. I.E. no pilsen malt and see what happens.

bobo31 said:

I have been drinking this for a few weeks and have seen no change in the color. I have had bottles in the fridge for at least a week and that changed nothing. I thought the F.G. was a little high but having never used this British yeast before I wasn't sure if that was normal. Maybe I will have to give this another try in the near future and use the right malt. I.E. no pilsen malt and see what happens.

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I wouldn't blame the Pilsen malt. I use it in all my beers and have no clarity issues. Looks like yeast to me. Did you take s gravity reading before transferring to secondary? The other option, as someone suggested above, is infection.

I did not take a gravity reading before transferring.

bobo31 said:

Nope. I honestly can't say.

Funniest comment ever, i might have to add this to my signature!

I did not tast the wort.

So looking back at my notes. I used 8.25lbs of Marris Otter and 9lbs of Pilsen malt. Yeast was pitched 12/28/14, Racked to Secondary 1/13/15 and Bottled 1/18/15. So that is 3 weeks grain to glass. Fermented at about 60-64 The taste isn't bad but its not as hoppy as I would expect compared to my other IPAs especially with the amount of hops in this beet. I will give it the award of my worst IPA since going all RO water. However I have had very picky drinkers say it was good.

Also my O.G. was 1.086 and my F.G. was 1.020

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Man, that does look like some mud. I'd say it looks closest to yeast slurry in suspension. Try chilling one in the back of the kitchen fridge for a few days and see if it clears in the bottle (this should be a light enough brew to be able to see through the bottle when it is clear). I forget if you keg. If you do, toss one in a bottle and try this. You can even use a mason jar or a soda bottle. You just want to see if it clears and how thick the "cake" is afterwards. If that works, either pour really carefully from the bottle or chill the hell out of the keg and purge a few pints until it clears and don't move the keg again.

I had this Stone Enjoy By at a restaurant the other day and really liked it. I was hoping to make something like it, but more in the gravity of a regular IPA. So I worked up this recipe based on the OP's. I tried to keep it a similar BU:GU ratio (I think it was 1.11 for the original and 1.05 for mine?).
Do you think this modification will result in the flavor I'm looking for? Any changes you'd suggest?
Thanks!
-bill

T. rex IPA
Partial Mash Recipe

Brewer: bill!
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Style: American IPA (14B)
Boil Size: 3.50 gal Style Guide: BJCP 2008
Color: 7.5 SRM Equipment: My Equipment
Bitterness: 66.1 IBUs Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.063 (15.3° P) Mash Profile: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Est FG: 1.016 SG (4.0° P) Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
ABV: 6.2% Taste Rating: 30.0

Ingredients Amount Name Type #
3 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM)
3 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM)
1.0 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 60 min
1.0 oz Cascade [5.5%] - Boil 15 min
1.0 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 15 min
4 lbs Pale Liquid Extract [Boil for 5 min] (8.0 SRM)
1.0 oz Citra [12.0%] - Boil 0 min
1 pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007)
1.0 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Dry Hop 8 days
1.0 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.0%] - Dry Hop 8 days
1.0 oz Galaxy [14.0%] - Dry Hop 4 days
1.0 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.0%] - Dry Hop 4 days

HeuristicsInc said:

I was hoping to make something like it, but more in the gravity of a regular IPA. So I worked up this recipe based on the OP's. I tried to keep it a similar BU:GU ratio (I think it was 1.11 for the original and 1.05 for mine?).

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Don't go by BU:GU ratio. It should be a very loose guideline and not something to stress over for a very hoppy IPA.

I highly recommend a full volume boil with no top off water. This will give you the most hop effectiveness and keep the wort as light as possible.

If you did not enter accurate attenuation details then the FG will likely be lower than your brewing software is predicting. Low FG is always a good thing for IPAs.

Revised:

Boil Time: 60 min
Est OG: 1.065
Est FG: 1.012
6.5 gallon boil
5 gallon batch

5 lbs UK 2-Row (mashed for 60 min at 147-148F, 1.5L per 1 lb. grain)
3 lbs Briess DME (at boil start)
1 lb Briess DME (at flameout)
1 lb Corn or Table Sugar (at flameout)

1.00 oz Centennial - Mash Hop
1.00 oz Warrior - Boil 60 min
1.25 oz Centennial - Boil 15 min
1.25 oz Cascade - Boil 15 min
1.25 oz Citra - Whirlpool
1.25 oz Centennial - Whirlpool
1.25 oz Cascade - Whirlpool
2.50 oz Nelson Sauvin - Dryhop
2.50 oz. Galaxy - Dryhop

1 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Starter

I've lowered the SG to 1.057 with this recipe without changing the hop schedule and it came out amazing. See post 179 and my subsequent posts for the discussion.

Yes, I saw your lower gravity recipe, but I am stuck in partial mash land with my brewing setup (therefore I cannot do the full boil as suggested by bobbrews - unless I want to make a 3 gallon batch). I've munged up the parameters in brewsmith to try to replicate my setup.
The reason why I didn't do what you were saying was:

Yes, I know the balance will be off, but I don't care

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I do care
But seriously, is BU:GU ratio useless, or just something to not stress over? How important is it really?
-bill

Well I'd argue that Enjoy By is unbalanced, but we still love it, right? I think mine came out great.

Sorry, I've never used BU:GU so I can't comment on that.

Man, that combination of Galaxy and Nelson Sauvin hops smells sooooo good.
-bill

I have purchased the ingredients and plan to brew a 2g batch of this this weekend. Any thoughts on doing primary in a 3g better bottle, doing all of the dry hopping right in there once active fermentation ends, and then going straight to bottles? I don't keg and don't have the ability to cold crash. I don't mind if my beer isn't perfectly sparkling clear, but don't want it to look like the yoo hoo from a few pages back. I'm also a bit worried about the 1g headspace while dry hopping once active fermentation is over. Think the CO2 layer will stay in place to protect it? I'm hoping to bottle about two weeks after brewing, or even slightly less. The reason I don't want to transfer to secondary is because I don't have a good size container to use. I have some 1g glass bottles but splitting it will be a pain, and neither or them will be full after the trub loss.

Thanks!

You should be fine. When racking my beers with dry hops, I make sure to put some sort of filter on the outlet of the racking cane that is in the bottling bucket. I use a hop sack from Wilser brew bags as it's a pretty fine material. I use a zip tie to hold it onto the outlet tube. All sanitized of course. It won't get everything, but you'll stop any big hop pieces from getting in the bottles.

I'm thinking of trying this recipe soon. Just need a few more hops. I have a couple of ounces each of the important galaxy and Nelson hops but I'm a little confused.

I was always led to believe that dryhopping only adds aroma and no flavor. Is this correct? I'm guessing not as it would be a shame to add these great hops to only get aroma from them!

Aroma and taste are linked. For example, when you are "tasting" grapefruit, you are really smelling the volatile compounds that smell like grapefruit. You only taste sweet, salty, sour, bitter and umami. You don't taste grapefruit. You taste the sweet, sour and bitterness of a grapefruit. So when you add hops in the dry hop, you are getting the aroma and the other things in the beer are contributing to the flavor/taste.

Don't worry about this recipe; it's great. Brew it up and you'll see.

You've sold it to me! I'll be trying this soon. We can't get fresh Enjoy By up here (I found a bottle of enjoy by 15th Feb on the shelf of a liquor store.... In April!) Still good but I'm guessing a completely different beer after that length of time.

I've tried fresh vs "old" (~ a month past the enjoy by date) and it was a pretty big difference. I really wasn't expecting such a big difference. I know IPAs should be drank fresh, but I'm not one of those people that take that to the extremes ("IPAs are terrible after 4 days!!"), but in this beer particularly, it did drop off. The old one was still good and if I was drinking it by itself, I'd say it was great. But having it side by side, the fresh had so much more aroma. Sucks that you can't get it fresh. They are pretty easy to get here...

So I'm planning on brewing this again this weekend, so I came back to read some posts from this thread and I had forgot about bobo's clarity issues:

bobo31 said:

Here is a pic of what I am talking about

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Well, we have a newish brewery in Columbus that is getting major hype right now for their IPAs. I think they are good, but people are going crazy for them. Anyway, one of their latest releases was called Konkey Dong and here is what it looked like:


Almost looks like bobo's beer. It's funny, because I don't do anything for clarity. Never in 60 batches have I done anything except I cold crashed a couple times. My clarity is always pretty good to really clear after it's been in the keg for a month or so. I've never had a beer come out as cloudy as those 2 pictures. Everyone loved the KD, but I think I just couldn't get past the clarity. It gave it this weird mouthfeel that I didn't like. Anyway, this has nothing to do with Enjoy By, but I thought it was interesting.

mtnagel said:

So I'm planning on brewing this again this weekend, so I came back to read some posts from this thread and I had forgot about bobo's clarity issues:

Well, we have a newish brewery in Columbus that is getting major hype right now for their IPAs. I think they are good, but people are going crazy for them. Anyway, one of their latest releases was called Konkey Dong and here is what it looked like:

Almost looks like bobo's beer. It's funny, because I don't do anything for clarity. Never in 60 batches have I done anything except I cold crashed a couple times. My clarity is always pretty good to really clear after it's been in the keg for a month or so. I've never had a beer come out as cloudy as those 2 pictures. Everyone loved the KD, but I think I just couldn't get past the clarity. It gave it this weird mouthfeel that I didn't like. Anyway, this has nothing to do with Enjoy By, but I thought it was interesting.

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Where can I get that Monkey beer, and is it any good? I live up North in Dayton and make it down to Cinci fairly often.

It's long gone from the shelves. Only 1 bottle shop got any in Cincy and that's only because they drove up to Columbus to get it and they sold out in a few hours. You might be able to trade someone in Dayton for some though.