So I have my eye on a 3BBL system from Portland Kettle Works. I am in the process of opening up a nano brewery and am building a temp. controlled room wich will house the fermentors. I am starting out small and want to get some bio-diesel tanks to use, only problem is that I do not know which ones to get. I can only find them in 85gal. and 60gal. So do I brew a 120gal. batch and split into 2-60gal. tanks but only get about 110gal. or do I just get the 110 gal tanks to begin with or is there other bio tanks out there to accomodate? Thanks
3BBl System but with what tanks?
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hypergolic
Well-Known Member
Have you read the article that states that opening a brewery with less that a 7BBL system is a bad idea? I am not saying it's a bad idea but it's an interesting read. I can't find the link but I will keep looking.
Yes I have read the article. In my case most of my annual sales will be coming out of my tap room, not by distributing. Selling by the glass is what will help keep me in business until I can expand. I have also talked with several breweries that are 3BBL and below and they are making it happen. The key is to get into the door at low cost, get some numbers on the books and expand.
Good to know. I am thinking we will do the same! Thanks
Don't want to grandstand but Tasting Room laws make tiny breweries financially viable. If you can sell your product to the public at retail prices, you will make money. A keg of craft beer sells to a bar for $140 on a good day. There are at least 110 pints in a keg (half barrel) of beer after shrink on a good day, which at $4 a pint means $440 per keg if you can sell it in your tasting room.
Many thanks to Mike Hess for pioneering this business model and making it all possible for the really really small craft brewers out there.
More on topic, however, I think you really need to go with the larger fermentors. You're always going to produce enough gas per batch to purge your fermentors regardless of batch size and capacity is always your limiting factor.
Many thanks to Mike Hess for pioneering this business model and making it all possible for the really really small craft brewers out there.
More on topic, however, I think you really need to go with the larger fermentors. You're always going to produce enough gas per batch to purge your fermentors regardless of batch size and capacity is always your limiting factor.
Nightshade
Well-Known Member
I disagree with the caveat that it depends on what your intention is with the brewery.
If you are opening a tap house or brewpub then there is no reason a 3bbl system won't work and keep you going for quite some time. I work on a 3bbl system and keep 7 beers on tap fairly consistently (6 on tap does happen at times). The place I am at has been in business this way for 15 years (brewpub) and I see no reason why I couldn't maintain even 10 on tap although I would have a heavier brew schedule. As it stands I brew about 15-18 days out of the month on average but have brewed more and less depending on many variables.
If you are looking to do distribution then you should not enter with less than a 15bbl system in my opinion and even that depends on how much you are actuallly selling regularly.
Starting on a 3bbl system will give you a good idea after a year or two of what you need at that point and is easy to sell off to another startup at minimal loss.
Just my .02 after having worked with this system for the last year or so now.
hypergolic
Well-Known Member
Our angle is that we'll open as a tasting room, with our 3bbl system, but with future plans of purchasing a 15ish bbl system. Keeping our 3bbl in the tasting room and brewing limited run beers on it.
I'm always drawn to the breweries where I can watch them working, especially the smaller systems where I can see the entire process. This will allow us to cater toward home brewers and clubs as well, making our 3bbl system available occasionally.
I'm always drawn to the breweries where I can watch them working, especially the smaller systems where I can see the entire process. This will allow us to cater toward home brewers and clubs as well, making our 3bbl system available occasionally.
Ramitt
Well-Known Member
Cool plan, I wish you the best of luck.
My problem with the above business model of $4 pints is unless I walk into your tap room intentionally I am probably just passing through and stopped in. I would have a hard time spending $4 on a pint not knowing if I will like it or not. This risk is lessened with lower prices AND getting a good name for your brewery out there. I have been to a fair amount of brew pubs and I can say there has ALWAYS been at least 1 beer that was nothing short of "gawd awful". I do understand that is where taster flights come into play and those are my preferred way to see what the offerings are but if I only have time for 1 pint I would stop at a bar that advertised a craft beer that I know I will like.
TLDR version $4 for a pint of well known beer is reasonable, same price on "Joe's Amber" not so much.
Nightshade
Well-Known Member
$4 is reasonable risk, around here average is $4.50 a pint so with this price I see it as being in between prices. Just starting up though I could see benefit to $3.75 a pint for the first year or so to get the name and product into the hands and minds of consumers. I would not consider $3.50, at least not i the market here.
So if you don't mind me asking....what did PKW quote you for a 3bbl system? There stuff looks killer!!
hoptualBrew
Well-Known Member
I disagree with this article wholeheartedly. There are too many variables at play to make such a broad claim. There are a lot of intangibles that overshadow the capacity of a brewhouse.
Nightshade
Well-Known Member
Exactly, there are many that begin with nothing more than a keggle setup or something similiar and do fine. Down the road when they have cash they step into a larger system if they are doing well or they close with a minimal loss.
All this means is someone is brewing 5+ days a week to keep up with demand and saving cash to pay for the future upgrades and expansions.
It is not a bad way to operate a business by avoiding getting into debt as much as possible.
Im_Lars
Well-Known Member
Another thing to keep in mind, all the start up's can't just focus on the system you have to have a personality, a good location and above everything else a good beer.
I have tasted some great nano beers but would never go back because the guy was an ass. Then on the other hand I've driven 20 mile out in the country side and would do it again in a heart beat because the guy was nice. You have to have the total package
I have tasted some great nano beers but would never go back because the guy was an ass. Then on the other hand I've driven 20 mile out in the country side and would do it again in a heart beat because the guy was nice. You have to have the total package
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