Angle Iron vs. Square Tube?

Doing a little bit of research on brew stands. I'm looking to design one, and I can't figure out why I would go with square vs. angle iron. Yes square is stronger, but stronger in a way like "i could run square over with my truck, but not angle" (which you probably could too). I figured angle would be easier to bolt to as well.

Also, aside from shiny-ness and non-rusting. Why stainless? Seems to me it would be prohibitively more expensive.

Comments? Insight?

I can't weld, ergo "Barney" :rockin:

For something like a brewstand angle iron is sufficient.

Yes angle iron will be easier to work with if you can't weld or don't know someone who can.

It's mostly a factor of cost and cosmetics.

To tell you the truth I have seen some brewstands made of extrusion and I think those look the best even though I am a welder by trade and have built one myself of course with square tube. I built mine with Aluminum.

If angle iron looks like that's the way you want to go then don't have second thoughts about it. Angle iron is fine.

Stainless is more expensive but if you like bling that's the way to go unless you don't mind spending money or have a cheap source.

I used mattress frames. I got the frames super-cheap ($10 for all the steel to make my stand) and just used a wire wheel to clean the powder coating off the steel. I bought a cheap flux-core welder and learned to weld from a friend that welds. My stand is almost done. I am VERY happy so far with the results. I think my stand will be better than most stands you can buy.













I still have MUCH work to do.

Eternalodyssey said:

I still have MUCH work to do.

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Nice stand, also, nice bike.

Thanks. The problem with having a 100 year old house is that my garage is damn near as old and I have to pull my street bike out every time I work on my brewing rig. At least I can leave the race machine in the garage most of the time.



I look forward to next year when I can build a new garage and a brew room.

How many frames did it take for you to do that? Nice work! You didn't do that from one frame... Right?

I wanna say I used 8 frames. The problem with using frames has been that I had to use the angle grinder to grind the swivel caster rivets and the end pieces that attach to the headboard off with an angle grinder. Once I had this routine down it was pretty smooth sailing from there. The one thing I will say about using mattress frames is that it is powder coated with some sort of coating and you have to use a wire brush to get down to the bare metal before you try to weld. They're easy to cut and mattress frames are relatively easy to come by, mattress frames are made with VERY strong metal, and its definitely not as heavy as a square tubed frame would have been. I decided to go all out on my build so it was important that I try to keep it relatively lightweight. I do plan on getting the whole stand coated in Line-X just for the bling factor and because some (MOST) of my amateur welds are just that- amateur. Plus I think it would be pretty cool and cut down on concerns of rust. I didn't put all of this work into this machine only for it to rust out on me in a year or two. I want to be able to use it for a long time to come.

I've been thinking of building a stand out of bed frames myself, but want to make it large enough to fit a 1 bbl system in the future. Any reason why the metal from bed frames wouldn't be sufficient?

born3z said:

I've been thinking of building a stand out of bed frames myself, but want to make it large enough to fit a 1 bbl system in the future. Any reason why the metal from bed frames wouldn't be sufficient?

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Bad idea
Metal bed frames are made from a very soft weak steel and don't have the structural integrity. 2 x 2 .065 HR should be used for a 1 bbl system. Each barrel can weigh as much as 450 lbs when full.

You will find it requires more angle iron to accomplish the same structural strength as tubing. And tubing is far lighter.

The tubing for a standard brew stand in 1 x 2 x .065 costs around $100

OneHoppyGuy said:

Bad idea
Metal bed frames are made from a very soft weak steel and don't have the structural integrity. 2 x 2 .065 HR should be used for a 1 bbl system. Each barrel can weigh as much as 450 lbs when full.

You will find it requires more angle iron to accomplish the same structural strength as tubing. And tubing is far lighter.

The tubing for a standard brew stand in 1 x 2 x .065 costs around $100

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I'd have to agree with this.

I used bed frames, and while they are definitely sufficient for my 10 and 15 gal purposes, I can't imagine them holding a 1bbl setup.

They tend to be a arbitrary mix of metals that happened to be thrown into the smelter that day.

I honestly can't speak for a 1Bbl system. Obviously, with enough support beams and material, anything is possible but I personally would advise going with square tubing jus to be on the safe side. With only a 10 Gallon system being supported on this system, you're only looking at a few hundred pounds of weight to be supported at a time. Bed frames are WAY overkill for this requirement. However, when you are discussing 1Bbl, you must consider you are potentially applying three times as much and that is a lot of weight. It would be a shame if something snapped. That would be a MAJOR issue.

OneHoppyGuy said:

Bad idea
Metal bed frames are made from a very soft weak steel and don't have the structural integrity. 2 x 2 .065 HR should be used for a 1 bbl system. Each barrel can weigh as much as 450 lbs when full.

You will find it requires more angle iron to accomplish the same structural strength as tubing. And tubing is far lighter.

The tubing for a standard brew stand in 1 x 2 x .065 costs around $100

Click to expand...

Yeah, I was leaning that way anyway but, was wanting to make myself a cheap stand cuz I don't own a welder or a chop saw. Would be a little wiser to just do it right and avoid possible mishaps.

My stand is made from bed frames and I wouldn't do it again. It's really hard to cut and drill for one thing. The other problem is the when you do a crappy weld on it, you can't get the grinder inside the inside corner to hide the mistake.

i used angle iron and it works just fine. But it's more flexible before you weld it up so i have a 1/4" errata on my backside. If i had to do it over i'd go square tube.

Eternalodyssey said:

Thanks. The problem with having a 100 year old house is that my garage is damn near as old and I have to pull my street bike out every time I work on my brewing rig. At least I can leave the race machine in the garage most of the time.

I look forward to next year when I can build a new garage and a brew room.

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You Gixxer guys always want to drag knees, even when the bike is straight up.

I used 1.5x1.5 16GA mild steel, and it was only 60 bucks. I can't imagine angle iron is much cheaper, and I think square stock looks a good deal better.

I'm using 2x2 .065 tube. I priced 2" angle too, it was 1/8" and about the same price. I got 44 ft for $92 with tax.

rossi46 said:

I'm using 2x2 .065 tube. I priced 2" angle too, it was 1/8" and about the same price. I got 44 ft for $92 with tax.

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How did you mount your pumps and chiller?

Boomer said:

How did you mount your pumps and chiller?

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I drilled and tapped four 1/4" plates, then welded the plates to the stand. The pumps are all mounted below and the chiller is above plus a one inch spacer.

suprchunk said:

You Gixxer guys always want to drag knees, even when the bike is straight up.

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Sounds like an R1 rider to me. Doesn't know what to do once he hits an Apex, and wouldn't recognize an exit photo if his life depended on it!

It's looking to be a solid year now that Gateway is open again and we can resume getting some quality time in on our home track. The 2012 MCRA Challenge is taking us to from Putnum all the way to Heartland Park in Topeka, Kansas. If I'm not brewing I'll be on the track.

I'm NOT nervous about my rig being welded together with mattress frames. It feels plenty strong and I think it will do quite well.

Cheers!

OneHoppyGuy said:

Bad idea
Metal bed frames are made from a very soft weak steel and don't have the structural integrity. 2 x 2 .065 HR should be used for a 1 bbl system. Each barrel can weigh as much as 450 lbs when full.

You will find it requires more angle iron to accomplish the same structural strength as tubing. And tubing is far lighter.

The tubing for a standard brew stand in 1 x 2 x .065 costs around $100

Click to expand...

+1 on the tubing. I used 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 .083 (14ga) for my 1bbl and have no regrets. Its very strong and light for its size.(10'x36"x12" 150lbs.) The material cost is good. ($36 for 24ft piece)

splobucket said:

Doing a little bit of research on brew stands. I'm looking to design one, and I can't figure out why I would go with square vs. angle iron. Yes square is stronger, but stronger in a way like "i could run square over with my truck, but not angle" (which you probably could too). I figured angle would be easier to bolt to as well.

Square is stronger in enlongation and compression. Angle is less resistant to these forces. So a mix of both will save money but provide needed strength in areas that support a lot of the weight.

Also, aside from shiny-ness and non-rusting. Why stainless? Seems to me it would be prohibitively more expensive.

Shiny costs way more, and is a bigger PITA to weld. SS tig welding and getting a good blend before passivating does take a bit of time. The advantages of stainless are many fold. Easier to clean, little or no discoloration, no rust and it eliminates a paint requirement if you decide that is the way to go.

Comments? Insight?

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I'm building mine out of the pre-drilled and slotted galvanized materials available at Lowes and Home depot. Once it is assembled I will give it a good bath in Flat Black BBQ paint and call it good. The areas directly adjacent to the burners will flake and burn away, but that just give the sculpture a homey character and demonstrates it's usefullness too. Just some thoughts from the fringe. Hope this helps.
Bob

I tried using a bed frame to make something years ago. It was very hard and brittle. Tough to cut and drill through. I figured it was crappy steel and never again attempted to use it for anything as it wasn't worth it. Why eat up drill bits and saw blades?

Now, seeing this thread, I decided to google bed frame steel. The general consensus is that the composition can vary widely but it's usually very hard, brittle, and way too difficult to cut, drill, and bend. Instead of bending it just cracks. Most people thought that it was fine for the miscellaneous bracket or whatever but not for anything structural.

Edit-
Eternalodyssey, your stand looks OK. You have a lot of members there! You may want to consider adding some diagonals or Xs to the sides, though.

I have a one barrel system (35 gallon batches) that I have used since the summer of 2008. My brewstand is built out of old bed frames. I do have some square steel tubing for a rack under my boil kettle. I found bed frames to be made of a much harder steel than the square steel tubing - it is much harder to cut and drill thru. My frame is bolted together. I have extensive cross bracing and heavy duty casters. My BK is about seventy pounds and I routinely fill it with 50 gallons of water (400 pounds).

Here is a pic of it.
https://picasaweb.google.com/105962...key=Gv1sRgCJuI4arXzZjpjQE#5731636928903065010

kevink said:

I tried using a bed frame to make something years ago. It was very hard and brittle. Tough to cut and drill through. I figured it was crappy steel and never again attempted to use it for anything as it wasn't worth it. Why eat up drill bits and saw blades?

Now, seeing this thread, I decided to google bed frame steel. The general consensus is that the composition can vary widely but it's usually very hard, brittle, and way too difficult to cut, drill, and bend. Instead of bending it just cracks. Most people thought that it was fine for the miscellaneous bracket or whatever but not for anything structural.

Edit-
Eternalodyssey, your stand looks OK. You have a lot of members there! You may want to consider adding some diagonals or Xs to the sides, though.

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I appreciate the feedback. I have taken many things into consideration when I designed my rig and I think the design I have implemented will serve me well due to how I have distributed the weight. Also, I have not displayed a second vertical bracer off the to right very well with pith pictures. It holds my RIMS tube and the control box housing the SSD/PID controller. I realize the material of choice will not potentially hold a gargantuan amount of weight but given the volume of liquid I will be handling at any given time I feel comfortable the setup I am outfitting myself with will be quite adequate.

First off, Stevehaun, love the pups. I've got a pair of golden retrievers that assist me on my brew days (1 purebread, 1 'honorary'). I've gotten great insight from this post, and confirmed that the stainless steel is more for show... I'm still convinced that angle would be significantly cheaper and plenty strong... but I'm going to have to open up some engineering textbooks for that one.

In addition, to those using the square tube, is it a pain to drill through both sides? Keeping it lined up and using the long bolts seems like it make things a little more difficult. I don't own a drill press so I would be drilling by hand.

splobucket said:

First off, Stevehaun, love the pups. I've got a pair of golden retrievers that assist me on my brew days (1 purebread, 1 'honorary'). I've gotten great insight from this post, and confirmed that the stainless steel is more for show... I'm still convinced that angle would be significantly cheaper and plenty strong... but I'm going to have to open up some engineering textbooks for that one.

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Just do some simple beam equations for the weight concentrated in the middle of 2 fixed joints and see how close you are to yield strength.

look at page 5 here and use low carbon alloy cold rolled steel for your values.

I would guess that is the highest loading area, you can always put more vertical stiffeners on the sides.

ETA: if the 2 are competitively priced, go with the tubing no question...easier to work with IMO and looks much better.

Of course what is the better structure is all relative to what size you are buying as well. Big, thick angle > thin & small square tube. Always compare the Moment of Inertial cross section values (and how thin you are personally able to weld)

splobucket said:

First off, Stevehaun, love the pups. I've got a pair of golden retrievers that assist me on my brew days (1 purebread, 1 'honorary'). I've gotten great insight from this post, and confirmed that the stainless steel is more for show... I'm still convinced that angle would be significantly cheaper and plenty strong... but I'm going to have to open up some engineering textbooks for that one.

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Brewing is a wet environment. Stainless is preferred for its longevity. Angle and tubing are comparatively priced and tubing is superior.

rpe290 said:

Just do some simple beam equations for the weight concentrated in the middle of 2 fixed joints and see how close you are to yield strength.

look at page 5 here and use low carbon alloy cold rolled steel for your values.

I would guess that is the highest loading area, you can always put more vertical stiffeners on the sides.

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Cold rolled ups the price quite a bit...

OneHoppyGuy said:

Cold rolled ups the price quite a bit...

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Just stating a general value to use for a quick analysis look...since that number is fairly easy to find, but yes actually buying CRS you are correct.

Gotcha
Using the calculator is excellent advice. We use one when we get requests for over-sized stands.

Saved

I ended up going with 2x2 tube. It is a pain to drill a straight hole through if you dont have a drill press. But it is easier to weld together and get nice corners with. My only regret is I used 11 gauge steel which is way overkill. My rig weighs a ton.

But it can probably get hit by a truck and be ok.

Just finished mine at the end of summer. 2x2 square tubing. Got.it for $40 from a friend. Learned how to weld by building it. Spent more on flap discs and grinding discs than I did on the steel but it is an awesome rig and it works splendidly