FArking Welder!!

The damn welder placed the heating elements too high on my Kettle. Just under half way up.

When I tested it they brought my water to a boil in 8min. Which is awesome.... too bad it only boiled half the water! The tempature at the bottom of the kettle was only 160. I can get the tempature up my stirring the water.... but is the water at the bottom going to boil the whole time once it hits 212 or will it drop back off...

I guess I'll find out on Tuesday..

mhermetz said:

The damn welder placed the heating elements too high on my Kettle. Just under half way up.

When I tested it they brought my water to a boil in 8min. Which is awesome.... too bad it only boiled half the water! The tempature at the bottom of the kettle was only 160. I can get the tempature up my stirring the water.... but is the water at the bottom going to boil the whole time once it hits 212 or will it drop back off...

I guess I'll find out on Tuesday..

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That really sucks. I find it best to provide a lot of guidance, drawings, whatever you can when you have welders, electricians, plumbers, or anything else do work for you. When I had my 3 kettles welded, I marked each of the locations on the kettles and what type of fitting was needed. Keep the guess-work out. Welders might not understand exactly what you are doing... but if you tell them that you need the coupling welded in as low as possible, and as horizontally as possible, with a marking of where you would like it... it's better than "weld this fitting in the side."

Hopefully you can just plug it and place a new one lower... if it was his/her error they'd probably to the re-work for free.

Good luck!

mhermetz said:

The damn welder placed the heating elements too high on my Kettle. Just under half way up.

When I tested it they brought my water to a boil in 8min. Which is awesome.... too bad it only boiled half the water! The tempature at the bottom of the kettle was only 160. I can get the tempature up my stirring the water.... but is the water at the bottom going to boil the whole time once it hits 212 or will it drop back off...

I guess I'll find out on Tuesday..

Click to expand...

I have a feeling it will stay much cooler at the bottom. Hot water rises and cold sinks it wont mix all that well

I found the hard way that if you're dropping the work off, you want to sharpie all over the place showing what goes where. They will forget any verbal instructions you give, even if they nod "yes" the whole time.

Bah, I think it'll be fine. The convective currents that set up in there should be nice and well mixed. How long was the top boiling when you measured 160 at the bottom?

shortyjacobs said:

Bah, I think it'll be fine. The convective currents that set up in there should be nice and well mixed. How long was the top boiling when you measured 160 at the bottom?

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Maybe if you're always heating at least 10 gallons, but if it takes 6-7 gallons to submerge your element ... yikes!

I marked that thing up like crazy! I'm not sure how he came to the conclusion to weld in the middle. Anyway I'll have no problems with running dry. Both elements are well below the 5 gallon mark. The guy did give me my money back...

But yes my main problem is having hot water raise. Anything below the element is not being circulated. If I stir it it should be around boiling temps... but that would mean stiring it every couple minutes. Unless once it's at boiling it holds temp. I unfortunatly don't have a way of measuring that.

Think I could bend the elements down?

I'll take some pics when I get home.

Bobby_M said:

I found the hard way that if you're dropping the work off, you want to sharpie all over the place showing what goes where. They will forget any verbal instructions you give, even if they nod "yes" the whole time.

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Good to know Bobby, I am going to have my cousins dad do the welding, and plasma cutting of my kegs. I've known him since I was a kid, and he is an awesome fabricator, but I had rough times sourcing some nice looking kegs, so I don't want to leave anything to chance, even to someone I know is capable and trust.

However, I'll be there to supervise the entire time, so along with sharpie marker and finger pointing, I am confident my fittings will be placed accordingly.

As usual great advice!

mhermetz said:

I marked that thing up like crazy! I'm not sure how he came to the conclusion to weld in the middle. Anyway I'll have no problems with running dry. Both elements are well below the 5 gallon mark. The guy did give me my money back...

But yes my main problem is having hot water raise. Anything below the element is not being circulated. If I stir it it should be around boiling temps... but that would mean stiring it every couple minutes. Unless once it's at boiling it holds temp. I unfortunatly don't have a way of measuring that.

Think I could bend the elements down?

I'll take some pics when I get home.

Click to expand...

Again, that whole thing is self mixing, or should be. As your element heats the water, and that water rises, cooler water from below is sucked upwards. Warmer water will flow down the sides of the pot to replace the cooler water. How do you know the water near the bottom is only at 160°F, and how long was it at a boil when you measured this?

Convective currents look like this:


The water should mix itself...

The water will mix itself. unless you've managed to create a physics-defying keggle Should be fine, and if you've acheived a rolling boil then I wouldn't worry about the temps.

I kid you not...while heating water below the first element was not heating up.... or at least very very slowly.

You could just tell by feeling the outside of the kettle. The top you couldn't touch because it was so hot but the bottom was cool.

Anyway i gave it another test run tonight Since I'll be brewing tomorrow.... I'll start another thread.

mhermetz said:

I kid you not...while heating water below the first element was not heating up.... or at least very very slowly.

You could just tell by feeling the outside of the kettle. The top you couldn't touch because it was so hot but the bottom was cool.

Anyway i gave it another test run tonight Since I'll be brewing tomorrow.... I'll start another thread.

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Sounds like that "convective" convection therories been shot all to hell or at least no way even within a couple degrees of the top boiling water vs the bottom of the kegs water. The welder now moves on with other paid jobs and you have a screwed up keg. One HBT member stated it takes him 2 1/2 gallons to reach his heating element, even that's not accecptable by me. I would go back and have another coupling relocated lower plus have a SS disc welded in the removed old couplings hole. Kegs are not cheap plus a freebie weld job tells me he knows he screwed up. Give him a chance to correct the problem of else small claims as his time in court will cost him much more being away from the weld shop. A weld shop listed under "weld for weed" in the phone book?

BrewBeemer said:

Sounds like that "convective" convection therories shot all to hell or at least no way even near a couple degrees of the top boiling water vs the bottom of the keg. The welder moves on with other paid jobs and you have a screwed keg. One HBT member stated it takes him 2 1/2 gallons to reach his heating element, even that's not accecptable by me. I would go back and have another coupling relocated lower plus have a SS disc welded in the removed old couplings hole. Kegs are not cheap plus a freebie weld job he knows he screwed up. Give him a chance to correct the problem oe else small claims as his time in court will cost him more being away from the weld shop.

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With all do respect, I don't think it needs to go that far. He started another thread about his setup. Here is a quote from him,

All previous problems I mentioned about the bottom not heating up because the elements were too high (Damn Welder!) are now debunked.

It would appear things aren't so bad. Even with the temp difference I would think things would be just like a calandria. The wort would get moved around enough that it would all get boiled and cycled enough times. He is also running a Blichmann Boiler maker with the thermometer half way up the side.

Edit: The weldor looks like he is pretty good. I can't see burn through except maybe in one spot. Granted the pics aren't about the welds. So, Weed, Beer, Wine, What ever.
Here is that other thread.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/father-son-electric-kettle-168450/

Prost.

Thia isn't the first time i've seen fittings welded in the wrong locations even with drawings left with the kegs. I gave one friend I gave a VS 90VDC parallel drive motor we mounted to his lid with a 6" stainless prop, it turns 75 rpm's that made dead on even temps within minutes. There're a bunch of crack headed freaks of welders in my area that build so called "ART" and do side jobs with side job results. The Berkeley campus is within a couple miles go figure.

I can mumble an idea with measurements to a Chevron Refinery welder friend over the phone and it will be welded up exactly as instructed. Well nuff said I don't want to get into a pissing war.