Did I just screw up?

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cjsplc

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A buddy and I decided to get into brewing because we like the idea of a premium and lower cost drink. After reading several different styles, we went to the homebrew store, bought 5 airlocks, a hydrometer, yeast, etc. We then proceeded to go to the grocery store, purchased 5 gallons of pasteurized cider (without preservatives), and brought it all home.

After hydrating the yeast and getting it all ready, we poured the yeast in and shook everything up. It was only then that we realized that the cider was fresh out of the refrigerator at the grocery store (d'oh). Did we just cold crash our cider without even starting it?

Thanks in advance!
 
I've generally found that the seasonal, delicious, fresh-pressed cider available in the refrigerated sections of grocery stores this time of year almost always contain preservatives. You probably already checked for that, but just in case: your fermentation will stick pretty quickly if there are any preservatives aside from acids.

Although it doesn't feel as "pure," if you're buying from a grocery store, your best bet is probably a pasteurized but preservative-free, not-from-concentrate cider/apple juice from the regular, non-refrigerated juice shelves. I use Musselman's, for store cider, and it seems to have a decent reputation.
 
gilrain said:
I've generally found that the seasonal, delicious, fresh-pressed cider available in the refrigerated sections of grocery stores this time of year almost always contain preservatives. You probably already checked for that, but just in case: your fermentation will stick pretty quickly if there are any preservatives aside from acids.

Although it doesn't feel as "pure," if you're buying from a grocery store, your best bet is probably a pasteurized but preservative-free, not-from-concentrate cider/apple juice from the regular, non-refrigerated juice shelves. I use Musselman's, for store cider, and it seems to have a decent reputation.
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Yeah, we went to Jungle Jims in Fairfield. I forget the name of the cider, but it said "No preservatives added" and the ingredients said "Apple Cider" and that's it. I suppose we are safe there.

My other question is that our starting SG was 1.050. My understanding is that the most we could get out of this is ~5%, right?
 
cjsplc said:
My other question is that our starting SG was 1.050. My understanding is that the most we could get out of this is ~5%, right?
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Ah, glad to hear about the lack of preservatives. Your final ABV will depend on when you decide to crash. If you take it to dry, at about 1.000, your ABV would be about: 1.050 - 1.000 = 0.050 * 131 = 6.55% ABV. Just subtract FG from OG and multiply by 131, basically.
 
I should add that your SG reading is affected by temperature. if you took the reading while the juice was still cold, it'll need to be adjusted. Your hydrometer probably came with a scale to adjust its reading for temperature.
 
gilrain said:
I should add that your SG reading is affected by temperature. if you took the reading while the juice was still cold, it'll need to be adjusted. Your hydrometer probably came with a scale to adjust its reading for temperature.
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Yeah, we figured that it was probably about 45 degrees. With the scale it was something like 1.047 I believe. Which do you prefer... dry or sweet?
 
cjsplc said:
Yeah, we figured that it was probably about 45 degrees. With the scale it was something like 1.047 I believe. Which do you prefer... dry or sweet?
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Well, I actually don't know yet! I'm new to the hobby myself, although I tend to research things to death before diving in... and then there's always more to learn. I have my first two, six-gallon batches in primary, right now, and will be setting up two single-gallon experiments tomorrow evening. The first of many, no doubt!

Based on my taste in other beverages, though, I expect to prefer a just off-dry cider. My first primary is a simple affair of juice, a little sugar, and Safale S-04. I intend to crash it at 1.010, or slightly above. I've been pretty swayed by CvilleKevin's extensive research.
 
gilrain said:
Well, I actually don't know yet! I'm new to the hobby myself, although I tend to research things to death before diving in... and then there's always more to learn. I have my first two, six-gallon batches in primary, right now, and will be setting up two single-gallon experiments tomorrow evening. The first of many, no doubt!

Based on my taste in other beverages, though, I expect to prefer a just off-dry cider. My first primary is a simple affair of juice, a little sugar, and Safale S-04. I intend to crash it at 1.010, or slightly above. I've been pretty swayed by CvilleKevin's extensive research.
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Alright, sounds good. I just spoke to my friend and he said that the yeast looks like it didn't take. :(. So tomorrow we're going to get some more yeast and start a second batch... we'll see how it goes.
 
when did you pitch? exactly what yeast did you pitch? my first cider took 36 hours to start. I used nottingham with that batch, s-04, all I've used since (I like the taste better) seems to start a little faster. also, what temp is she at right now? these are all questions which will help anyone here help you.
 
rjschroed said:
when did you pitch? exactly what yeast did you pitch? my first cider took 36 hours to start. I used nottingham with that batch, s-04, all I've used since (I like the taste better) seems to start a little faster. also, what temp is she at right now? these are all questions which will help anyone here help you.
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Pitched yeast about 24 hours ago. 3 batches (1gal a piece) used Nottingham and two batches used Red something Champagne yeast. Each packet said that it would handle up to 5 gal, so I thought 1/3 or 1/2 of a packet would work okay.

I think I screwed up though because I re-hydrated the yeast with a pinch of sugar in warm water, then proceeded to pour it into nice, ice-cold cider :D
 
cjsplc said:
Pitched yeast about 24 hours ago. 3 batches (1gal a piece) used Nottingham and two batches used Red something Champagne yeast. Each packet said that it would handle up to 5 gal, so I thought 1/3 or 1/2 of a packet would work okay.

I think I screwed up though because I re-hydrated the yeast with a pinch of sugar in warm water, then proceeded to pour it into nice, ice-cold cider :D
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I'm no expert here, but I'd certainly wait longer than 24 hours before messing around with it. Give it time. I bet you're fine without adding any more yeast.
 
jevchance said:
I would wait at least 4 days before repitching. And that's 4 days after you reached room temperature.
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Thank you. Update: the champagne yeast batches are bubbling away, but the ale batches clogged the airlock with orange stuff. We washed and blew the airlocks out. Any thoughts as to what this orange stuff is?
 
jevchance said:
I would wait at least 4 days before repitching. And that's 4 days after you reached room temperature.
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Thank you. Update: the champagne yeast batches are bubbling away, but the ale batches clogged the airlock with orange stuff. We washed and blew the airlocks out. Any thoughts as to what this orange stuff is?
 
cjsplc said:
Thank you. Update: the champagne yeast batches are bubbling away, but the ale batches clogged the airlock with orange stuff. We washed and blew the airlocks out. Any thoughts as to what this orange stuff is?
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Nothing other fermentation happening just like it should. If it keeps up, put a blowoff tube over the air lock if it's a 2 piece, otherwise rig one with a bung and extra tubing. On the other hand, it may not happen again. Apfelwien shouldn't have too much in the way of krausen, so you may not have any more buildup.

Relax, have 10 times more patience than you think you should and let those fermentors sit for a good 5-6 months. You should have some tasty stuff when it's all said and done.
 
late on the reply but sounds like you didn't screw it up. congrats and good luck! you'll have plenty of other questions and we can all probably help you out so let us know
 
rjschroed said:
late on the reply but sounds like you didn't screw it up. congrats and good luck! you'll have plenty of other questions and we can all probably help you out so let us know
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Thank you to all. We're going to start another batch, i think, because the ale yeast still hasn't really taken off. Another question to all the experts - how do you store yours when you are finished? I suppose the champagne cider will be dry, so backsweetening will be necessary, but, from what i've heard, we don't want to bottle and cap it?
 
cjsplc said:
Thank you to all. We're going to start another batch, i think, because the ale yeast still hasn't really taken off. Another question to all the experts - how do you store yours when you are finished? I suppose the champagne cider will be dry, so backsweetening will be necessary, but, from what i've heard, we don't want to bottle and cap it?
Click to expand...

You can bottle and cap it just like beer as long as you're sure it is done fermenting and then add the appropriate amount of priming sugar. If you bottle prematurely and/or add too much priming sugar, well then you might have something to worry about.
 
I am doing about the same thing but on the cheap. I bought a glass on gallon jar of pasturized unfiltered organic apple juice from whole foods. I went down to the local brew store and spent 5 bucks on 3 packets of champagne yeast, an air lock, and stopper. I pulled out one cup of juice, and added 2/3 cup sugar to the mix. I put the cap back on and shook vigourously until the sugar dissolved. I then added 1/2 packet of champagne yeast. It ahs been sitting since yesterday and it is bubbling already, and the air lock bubbles every 2-3 seconds.

I am going to let it sit for 2 weeks, and then bottle it for consumption. I have heard I should get 4-5% out of it with some mild sweetness. Any thoughts?

I have another gallon that I am goiung to try the saran wrap with the needle hole method (ghetto fabulous) I was going to go plain juice, but take 1/4 out and add cranberry juice to try and mix it up.
 
aobolenskiy said:
I am doing about the same thing but on the cheap. I bought a glass on gallon jar of pasturized unfiltered organic apple juice from whole foods. I went down to the local brew store and spent 5 bucks on 3 packets of champagne yeast, an air lock, and stopper. I pulled out one cup of juice, and added 2/3 cup sugar to the mix. I put the cap back on and shook vigourously until the sugar dissolved. I then added 1/2 packet of champagne yeast. It ahs been sitting since yesterday and it is bubbling already, and the air lock bubbles every 2-3 seconds.

I am going to let it sit for 2 weeks, and then bottle it for consumption. I have heard I should get 4-5% out of it with some mild sweetness. Any thoughts?

I have another gallon that I am goiung to try the saran wrap with the needle hole method (ghetto fabulous) I was going to go plain juice, but take 1/4 out and add cranberry juice to try and mix it up.
Click to expand...

Yeah we're doing it with plastic gallons of cider, but i wouldn't try the other method because i don't think it would seal very well. You'll probably spend the same on an airlock as you will on the wrap...
 
aobolenskiy said:
I am doing about the same thing but on the cheap. I bought a glass on gallon jar of pasturized unfiltered organic apple juice from whole foods. I went down to the local brew store and spent 5 bucks on 3 packets of champagne yeast, an air lock, and stopper. I pulled out one cup of juice, and added 2/3 cup sugar to the mix. I put the cap back on and shook vigourously until the sugar dissolved. I then added 1/2 packet of champagne yeast. It ahs been sitting since yesterday and it is bubbling already, and the air lock bubbles every 2-3 seconds.

I am going to let it sit for 2 weeks, and then bottle it for consumption. I have heard I should get 4-5% out of it with some mild sweetness. Any thoughts?

I have another gallon that I am goiung to try the saran wrap with the needle hole method (ghetto fabulous) I was going to go plain juice, but take 1/4 out and add cranberry juice to try and mix it up.
Click to expand...

Proper sanitation drastically reduces your chances of a bad batch. I don't see a problem using the store jug as a primary, but I'd highly recommend a bung and airlock. The plastic wrap method works during furious fermentation, but once the fermentation slows down or ceases, you will be letting air in there.
 
Proper sanitation drastically reduces your chances of a bad batch. I don't see a problem using the store jug as a primary, but I'd highly recommend a bung and airlock. The plastic wrap method works during furious fermentation, but once the fermentation slows down or ceases, you will be letting air in there.
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[/SIZE]

Yea, you are probably right. I will stop by and pick up one more air lock today.

I got some root beer 1 liter bottles at the dollar store to bottle the stuff. They are brown plastic, and I think they should work well. I was going to wash them in the dishwasher and bottle right after they get done. (remove them from dishwasher and bottle immediatly) Is this enough for sanitation?
 
aobolenskiy said:
I have another gallon that I am goiung to try the saran wrap with the needle hole method (ghetto fabulous) I was going to go plain juice, but take 1/4 out and add cranberry juice to try and mix it up.
Click to expand...

If you've got a thing for going the ghetto fabulous route, a length of tubing coming from a bung into a cup of water or vodka works too. Still not as good as an airlock though. As for the cranberry juice, that sounds interesting.
 
aobolenskiy said:
[/SIZE]
Yea, you are probably right. I will stop by and pick up one more air lock today.
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Its a cheap investment for peace of mind. It pays for itself the first time you don't ruin a batch. :fro:
aobolenskiy said:
I got some root beer 1 liter bottles at the dollar store to bottle the stuff. They are brown plastic, and I think they should work well. I was going to wash them in the dishwasher and bottle right after they get done. (remove them from dishwasher and bottle immediatly) Is this enough for sanitation?
Click to expand...
I know from first hand experience (unfortunately) that if your dishwasher is hot enough to sanitize plastic bottles, its also hot enough to deform them. You'll want to chemically sanitize plastic bottles (pickup some sodium metabisulphite when you stop to get an airlock). The dishwasher method works great for glass.
 
I guess i should have used the common sense with that one! Dishwasher no-sanitizer yes!

So I have the second bottle going since yesterday. I took out 1/3 gallon from the cider bottle, and added cranberry/rasberry juice from Costco (kirkland brand). I also added one cup of fresh brewed lipton tea (something about smooth flavor?) AND 2 TBSP of lemon juice. I also added 1 cup of sugar. Mix/Shake...added Red Star champagne yeast.

Now it is bubbling away with not too much foam. I will keep updates when I taste it in 1-2 weeks after it slows down a bit.


Thanks for all the info. I shall pass it forward!
 
Be careful about using plastic root beer bottles. Although they are nice and brown, it is VERY difficult to get rid of the rootbeer smell and they can impart a taste on the final product. I bottle some of my beer and cider in plastic soda bottles, and it is much easier to get rid of risidual smells and tastes if you stick to cola or (my personal favorite) 7-up bottles. They won't be brown (7-up comes in green), but better in the end.

Just my $0.02. Good luck!
 
sfbayjay said:
Be careful about using plastic root beer bottles. Although they are nice and brown, it is VERY difficult to get rid of the rootbeer smell and they can impart a taste on the final product. I bottle some of my beer and cider in plastic soda bottles, and it is much easier to get rid of risidual smells and tastes if you stick to cola or (my personal favorite) 7-up bottles. They won't be brown (7-up comes in green), but better in the end.

Just my $0.02. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Conversely, I make my own root beer in brown bottles, and never have any residual smells or flavors. For me the key is to rinse them thoroughly immediately after emptying them.
 
My family drinks Dr. Pepper like water, and they like 12oz bottles. I save them and clean & sanitize them for beer, cider, graff, etc. that I'm keeping for myself. Easy to tell when the carbonation is right. If I do want to give some away, the Dr. P bottles are nice & straight-sided without any embossed logos, etc, so you can stick a label on them and they look nice. I don't reuse them more than once or twice, just to make sure I don't overstress the threads by continually repressurizing them. But my wife & kids keep me supplied with fresh ones faster than I can brew.
 
Be careful about using plastic root beer bottles. Although they are nice and brown, it is VERY difficult to get rid of the rootbeer smell and they can impart a taste on the final product. I bottle some of my beer and cider in plastic soda bottles, and it is much easier to get rid of risidual smells and tastes if you stick to cola or (my personal favorite) 7-up bottles. They won't be brown (7-up comes in green), but better in the end.

Just my $0.02. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I have been cleaning them as I go, and letting them sit with a bleach/water in them for 1 day before drying them out. I don't have any smell from them, and I think cleaning them out right away with the bleach helps.

Onto my cider. The first batch is bubbling every 15-16 seconds. It has calmed down considerably! This was cider and 2/3 cup sugar. The second batch is still going very strong (Cranberry/Rasberry/Tea/Cider/Sugar/Lemon Juice).

I took the saran wrap off, and decided to make my point of ghetto fabulous. I called grandma in the old country. She uses a latex glove on the bottle. Waits till it gets filled up, heats up a needle and makes a very small hole in the middle finger. She says it makes easy to know when the fermenting is done! At 92 years old she has been fermenting for a little while. However, she asked me to bring her some airlocks next time I go back. (Even she admits it is better).

I am going to taste the first batch today, and let the second keep going.
 
aobolenskiy said:
Thanks for the input. I have been cleaning them as I go, and letting them sit with a bleach/water in them for 1 day before drying them out. I don't have any smell from them, and I think cleaning them out right away with the bleach helps.

Onto my cider. The first batch is bubbling every 15-16 seconds. It has calmed down considerably! This was cider and 2/3 cup sugar. The second batch is still going very strong (Cranberry/Rasberry/Tea/Cider/Sugar/Lemon Juice).

I took the saran wrap off, and decided to make my point of ghetto fabulous. I called grandma in the old country. She uses a latex glove on the bottle. Waits till it gets filled up, heats up a needle and makes a very small hole in the middle finger. She says it makes easy to know when the fermenting is done! At 92 years old she has been fermenting for a little while. However, she asked me to bring her some airlocks next time I go back. (Even she admits it is better).

I am going to taste the first batch today, and let the second keep going.
Click to expand...

We have an update here, too. The champagne yeast catches fermented completely 1.050 to 1.000. You can imagine how intensely dry it is. We put it into kind of secondary by siphoning it into a big pot, cleaning the milk jug, and siphoning it back into the clean jug. It's in the fridge ready for bottling. The ale yeast got off to a rough start and is now at about 1.027 from 1.050. We'll probably crash it at like 1.015 or so. How much do you fill your bottles?
 
I just crashed mine too, and it was kind of dry (I think the sugar helped) and had a bite to it. I filled it last night leaving the small part to the top of the bottle, and then let them sit out from 8:00 pm to 10: am this am. They were hard, and I think carbonated enough so I stuck em in the fridge. Today I opened a bottle and it tasted great!

Note: When I tasted mine it was too dry for my taste. I added a half teaspoon of sugar, and a small amount of apple juice to each bottle. This did the trick to make it crisp and slightly sweet. I was using 1 liter bottles.

Additionally when I siphoned out of my 1 gallon glass juice bottle I left about 1 inch with the smegma on the bottom. I then added 1 cup sugar, 1 cup black tea, and most of a gallon of Mott's store bought juice. This evening it is bubbling away! This should save more money by reusing the same yeast again!

Try to add a little juice to yours and see if that helps with the flavor. :rockin:
 

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