Stone/Ballast Point/Kelsey McNair Collaboration

San Diego County Session Ale - It's just that, a super hoppy 4.2% pale ale dubbed "West Coast Bitter". Has anybody else had this yet? I can't believe how much hop flavor they cram into such a low ABV brew. Def. Diggin it! I'd love to find out the recipe, seems like a good one to play around with!

Just picked up a couple bottles of 10.10.10 VE and 3 bottles of the new SN homegrown Estate ales. Good beer day!

I had a chance to try it when I went to a local beer store and I really enjoyed it. I wasn't in to paying the three dollars that they were asking per bottle though.

I believe the quote I left on Stone's Facebook was something along the line of:

"Kelsey needs to be seen by a doctor for acute hop addiction."

Stuff is astronomical.

Glad you enjoyed the beer and yes, I am definitely suffering from hop addiction.

Here is the recipe for 7 gallons of wort with a mash efficiency of 82%:

OG: 1.042
8.75lb Domestic 2-row
0.5lb Crisp Crystal Malt 77L
0.5lb CaraPils
0.2lb Honey Malt
0.1lb CaraVienne Malt

Mash at 158F for 60 minutes

Boil for 90 minutes
Hops:
20g Warrior (38.2 IBU) at 60 min
7g CTZ (7.3 IBU) at 30 min
10g Amarillo (3.1 IBU) at 10 min
10g Simcoe (4.3 IBU) at 10 min
1oz each Simcoe, Amarillo, Chinook, Citra, CTZ at 0 min
1oz each Simcoe, Amarillo, Chinook, Citra, CTZ dry hop

Fermentation:
WLP001 or WY1056 at 67F until completely fermented
FG should be 1.010~1.011

Reduce temp to 50F to settle out yeast

Return to 67F and dry hop for 7 days.

Very cool of you to share! Thanks! I might brew up 10 gallons of this for my next batch!

I tried it last week, I actually wasn't too big on it myself.

Hopgeek said:

Glad you enjoyed the beer and yes, I am definitely suffering from hop addiction.

Here is the recipe for 7 gallons of wort with a mash efficiency of 82%:

OG: 1.042
8.75lb Domestic 2-row
0.5lb Crisp Crystal Malt 77L
0.5lb CaraPils
0.2lb Honey Malt
0.1lb CaraVienne Malt

Mash at 158F for 60 minutes

Boil for 90 minutes
Hops:
20g Warrior (38.2 IBU) at 60 min
7g CTZ (7.3 IBU) at 30 min
10g Amarillo (3.1 IBU) at 10 min
10g Simcoe (4.3 IBU) at 10 min
1oz each Simcoe, Amarillo, Chinook, Citra, CTZ at 0 min
1oz each Simcoe, Amarillo, Chinook, Citra, CTZ dry hop

Fermentation:
WLP001 or WY1056 at 67F until completely fermented
FG should be 1.010~1.011

Reduce temp to 50F to settle out yeast

Return to 67F and dry hop for 7 days.

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Nice screenname, Kelsey. Showoff.

--derek

HopheadNJ said:

Just picked up a couple bottles of 10.10.10 VE and 3 bottles of the new SN homegrown Estate ales. Good beer day!

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Cheers to Sierra on another beer well done! Perfectly balanced, hoppy, fresh, and tasty, I dig it! There's something about the fresh/wet hop flavor I can't get enough of!

Great beer.




And now a recipe. That's one helluva first post!!

Hopgeek said:

Glad you enjoyed the beer and yes, I am definitely suffering from hop addiction.

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Can someone confirm this is Kelsey? I would like to attempt a homebrew of the Stone Collaboration Ale (ridiculously awesome, by the way), but this is the only post I can find from this poster, and there is no public profile information.

He seems to claim to be Kelsey from the tone of the post.

Fine, I updated my profile

Hopgeek said:

Fine, I updated my profile

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Ok, I'm a believer now

I'm going to attempt this tomorrow and wanted to ask a couple of questions if you do not mind.

• How critical is Crisp crystal 77L vs Crystal 75? I'm not sure I can find 77.
• Can you think of any noticeable differences that might present themselves if US-05 is substituted instead of WLP001 or WY1056?
• Do you use a 60 minute mash? Do you ramp up at the end?

Thank you very much for sharing the recipe. Now if I can only get Alpine Beer Co. to give up the Hoppy Birthday recipe, I'll be set with my 2 favorite session ales recipes.

ocluke said:

• How critical is Crisp crystal 77L vs Crystal 75? I'm not sure I can find 77.

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I really like the flavor profile of Crisp dark crystal (77L), it lends a nice earthy midrange caramel character. I think you can substitute a similar lovibond crystal malt, preferably of UK origin, for this recipe. Just keep in mind that being the dominant specialty malt you will likely notice a difference if you swap it out.

ocluke said:

• Can you think of any noticeable differences that might present themselves if US-05 is substituted instead of WLP001 or WY1056?

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I haven't brewed with US-05, but the beers that I have tasted that use it are fairly clean but throw a slight peach ester. I don't see it as problematic, but again, any changes in the recipe will change the overall character of the beer.

ocluke said:

• Do you use a 60 minute mash? Do you ramp up at the end?

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We mashed for 60 minutes at Stone and I employed a 60 minute mash for the original homebrew recipe. That being said, I have been experimenting with shorter mash times as of late. I have done mashes as short as 20 minute without having any impact on efficiency. I do ramp up during vourlauf via a HERMS system.

Also, since you are in OC, I am going to assume your water is fairly alkaline. I recommend bringing down the overall alkalinity by cutting with some RO and then hitting it with a bit of gypsum.

If you don't muck with your water, don't sweat it, but it is another factor that will change the end result.

Hopgeek said:

Also, since you are in OC, I am going to assume your water is fairly alkaline. I recommend bringing down the overall alkalinity by cutting with some RO and then hitting it with a bit of gypsum.

If you don't muck with your water, don't sweat it, but it is another factor that will change the end result.

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Thank you for adding in the water tip as well. I will do my best to replicate it to the "T". I believe I'm going to be using Crystal 75 instead of 77, as I can't seem to find anyone with some on hand this evening.

I'll let you know how it turns out. If it turns out close to your collaboration version, I'll be happy... and out of beer in less than a week after I keg it.

Now that this beer is officially extinct at all beer stores around me, I decided to attempt this clone on Sunday with a friend to the exact recipe graciously provided here by Hopgeek. We hit pretty close to the target OG (ended up at 1043-1044). I couldn't find a local supplier with a crystal malt of U.K. origin that had any more specific of a number reading on the bag than (70-80L), which was labeled in the bin as 75L. I didn't mess with the water (other than run it through a carbon filter) this time around, but will in the future when I'm setup for it.

How long, in your experience, should I wait (roughly) to reduce temp to 50 and settle out the yeast? You mentioned until it fermented out, but I'm not sure if there is a typical number of days I can use as a rule of thumb since I will not be able to see inside the conical and will be relying solely on airlock activity.

Do you dump the yeast slurry before adding the dry hops? I'm assuming that's the reason for settling out the yeast.

Being that this is a fairly large dry hop bill, do you have any recommendations for reducing potential O2 issues when introducing the dry hops?

ocluke said:

How long, in your experience, should I wait (roughly) to reduce temp to 50 and settle out the yeast? You mentioned until it fermented out, but I'm not sure if there is a typical number of days I can use as a rule of thumb since I will not be able to see inside the conical and will be relying solely on airlock activity.

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Honestly, you just have to wait until it has finished fermenting and the yeast have cleaned up after themselves. Once the gravity stops moving, give it another couple days and then drop the temp. The last thing you want to do is reduce the temp while the yeast is still active and then end up with a diacetyl mess.

The whole purpose of this temperature adjustment is to encourage the yeast to flocculate. Dry hopping is more effective when there is less yeast in solution.

ocluke said:

Do you dump the yeast slurry before adding the dry hops? I'm assuming that's the reason for settling out the yeast.

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Yep, remove as much yeast as you can before dry hopping.

ocluke said:

Being that this is a fairly large dry hop bill, do you have any recommendations for reducing potential O2 issues when introducing the dry hops?

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I have never had any issues with oxidation as a result of adding dry hops. If your hops are stored properly and are in good shape, you should have nothing to worry about.

For your flameout addition, do you begin chilling immediately or do you do a hot whirlpool first? I know Stone uses this technique but wasn't sure if you used it for the homebrew.

BrookdaleBrew said:

For your flameout addition, do you begin chilling immediately or do you do a hot whirlpool first? I know Stone uses this technique but wasn't sure if you used it for the homebrew.

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I turn off the heat, immediately add the hops and then give the kettle a good whirlpool stir. The hot wort rests for about 20 minutes and is then chilled via heat exchanger.

why thank you!

Hopgeek said:

I turn off the heat, immediately add the hops and then give the kettle a good whirlpool stir. The hot wort rests for about 20 minutes and is then chilled via heat exchanger.

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I gave it no rest before chilling. I basically started whirlpooling, added the flame out hops, and immediately began cooling with the the immersion chiller. I'm guessing that's going to impact the hop profile considerably vs. 20 minutes of resting at near boiling temperatures. "Now I know, and knowing is half the battle."

ocluke said:

I gave it no rest before chilling. I basically started whirlpooling, added the flame out hops, and immediately began cooling with the the immersion chiller. I'm guessing that's going to impact the hop profile considerably vs. 20 minutes of resting at near boiling temperatures. "Now I know, and knowing is half the battle."

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I had the same problem with a beer I'm doing that is based on this one, (different malt bill, similar hop schedule) which is why I asked. It's still mighty hoppy but not quite to the same level as his beer. Next time I'll whirlpool for 20 minutes.

Is the reason for the 7g batch size due to loss to hops or is that a finished 7g?

Looking through the photos from the SD Fair HB comp, I realized the Kelsey was judging my stout!
:cross:

I am quite pleased with how this recipe turned out. I was a little worried it would be lacking in taste or aroma due to the difference in the 20 minute post-boil whirlpooling schedule, but it is just like I remember the San Diego Session Ale tasting when it was first released. I did a side-by-side tasting with a bottle I still have in my beer fridge, but unfortunately the Stone bottling is a couple of months past its prime at this point, and therefore not a fair comparison.

Thanks again for a great recipe, Kelsey. Any other types of brews on the way?

NiteOwlBrewing said:

Is the reason for the 7g batch size due to loss to hops or is that a finished 7g?

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Yeah, those hops are pretty thirsty. You should net about 5gal of nice clean beer.

I'm drinking this one right now, really enjoying it! Any comments Kelsey, On the slight differences from whats listed in the stone recipe book? I ended a little higher, just at 5%. But for a session hoppy Beer, I love it:rockin:

Sorry for the Zombie ressurection ....

I just entered this recipe into my iBrewmaster app and the IBUs shown are a whopping 159.62 (Tinseth)!!! I even double-checked to be sure I entered everything correctly. Not sure what the problem is...maybe I'll enter it into Beersmith when I get home. IBU madness aside, I'm excited to try brewing this...I'm on a steadfast quest for the perfect summer session beer. The Stone book's recipe is definitely different than the one posted here, most significantly I think is the 20-minute mash.

Pointing out the time duration of the mash is a good one. I actually forgot that at Stone it was shortened. My original homebrew formula did employ a 60 minute mash.

For most beer styles requiring a single infusion mash, I actually use a 20 minute saccharification rest these days.

Does the tinseth formula calculate a high IBU contribution for 0 min additions? I have always used rager.

Hopgeek said:

Pointing out the time duration of the mash is a good one. I actually forgot that at Stone it was shortened. My original homebrew formula did employ a 60 minute mash.

For most beer styles requiring a single infusion mash, I actually use a 20 minute saccharification rest these days.

Does the tinseth formula calculate a high IBU contribution for 0 min additions? I have always used rager.

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I'm showing 0 IBUs for the 0-minute additions. FWIW I adjusted it to Rager and it shows a total of 148.84 IBUs. Here's how the hop additions read in iBrewmaster for the other additions:

0.31-oz Warrior (17%AA) @ 90-min = 23.96 IBU
1.55-oz Columbus (12.9%AA) @ 30-min = 65.34 IBU
1.55-oz Amrillo (8.5%AA) @ 15-min = 27.8 IBU
1.55-oz Simcoe (13%AA) @ 15-min = 42.52 IBU

I'll see how it comes out in Beersmith this evening.

MoeFoties said:

I just entered this recipe into my iBrewmaster app and the IBUs shown are a whopping 159.62 (Tinseth)!!!

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I have come to the conclusion that for more modern style hop forward beers (with large additions at or near flame out and through dry-hopping), IBUs are an unreliable and insufficient method of calculating how "hoppy" or bitter a beer is. I recently did an IPA with 2.35 lbs of hops in a 10 gal batch, and all of the hops were added after flame out. Technically, my beer was a 0 IBU beer that was a hop bomb, and it did have bitterness (go figure). Although, it was much more about the hop flavor and aroma (double go figure).

Quick question: what is the theory behind such a high mash temperature for this beer? Most west coast style beers have lower mash temps in the 149-153 range. My thoughts are that a high mash temp will give some extra body to the beer, and due to the low OG the beer should still attenuate enough to give it a dry west coast profile.

This beer is a palate trick by design. The goal is to have a finishing gravity that is similar to a well made double IPA (1.009-1.012) so that you aren't left with something too thin and harsh. I've had heavily hopped low gravity pale beers that use the west coast mash range and the results aren't that great when they finish sub 1.006. It needs dextrines/body but not necessarily sweetness/malt intensity to support all of the hops.

Holy crap. So I brewed this beer cuz I was looking for something sessionable due to needing my brain at 100% for grad school while still getting my hop fix. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn! It really is a palate trick, I can't get my head around the fact that I'm drinking a 4.4% alcohol beer and it tastes like this. I started drinking it after a week in the bottle and it was already in good shape, a week and a half and all traces of green-ness are gone.

I brewed it to the recipe posted here a T except my hops were Simcoe, Citra, Chinook, Cascade, Centennial. I figured, use the homebrewer's actual recipe rather than the small changes Stone had to make. It's my 50th brew and certainly one of the best I've made. Love the recipe Hopgeek, I've always wanted to try and figure something like this out but feared it would take me at least 5 batches to dial it in. I wonder how you settled on honey malt? Sweetness with less caramel, for balance?

Big thumbs up for this recipe.

bovineblitz said:

I wonder how you settled on honey malt? Sweetness with less caramel, for balance?

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Honey Malt has been a staple in my brewhouse since I decided to go all-grain several years ago. There was a period of time where I was trying to create a "house flavor" with a couple of my favorite specialty malts (victory[tastes nutty] and honey malt[tastes like honey]) that would show up in most of my recipes. After a while I got a bit more focused on brewing for competition, so I didn't end up using those two together as much. I still enjoy using honey malt quite a bit as it really adds a unique crystal-like sweetness with a subtle honey flavor.

This beer won me third place in the american ale category at the Colorado State Fair last weekend! Thanks Kelsey! My category winner also took BOS with a simcoe session ale.

I'd like to make a double version of this, a double session ale. Imperial session ale? Stupid name, right? I think doubling the ABV to about 8% and doubling the bittering addition, shoot for about 90 IBU might also make a tasty brew.

At that point you're really just making a strong IPA or double IPA.

You can check out my recipe for my American IPA Hop-Fu! here, uses similar hopping if you like the profile. Took 2nd round Gold at NHC in 2010, 2012 and a silver this year. It is most likely the most award winning homebrewed IPA ever made:
http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/HopFu

Yea, I know. I thought imperial session ale was just kinda funny. The hop fu looks excellent, though. Might have to add it to my queue!