Citra Hop Burst Experiment #1

Cheers! New brewer here,

- 1 beer that I am drinking: Irish Cat's Ass Stout
- 1 beer conditioning: Puss in Cowboy Boots Texas Ale
- Currently preparing for my 3rd batch: Citra Hop Burst Experiment #1

I was hoping to get some feedback from folks on the recipe attached below. I am attempting to brew a light colored and bodied beer with a sweet hop flavor and aroma that punches you in the face when you bring the pint up.

Is there anything in this recipe that looks overtly rediculous, unbalanced, that might make you think it may result in an unbalance, untasty brew?

This recipe is inspired by a delicious beer I had at my favorite brewery.

I also have an alternate version of this recipe that minuses 1 can of the Pilsner extract and adds 2 lbs of dexterose. The idea here was to make it dryer but keep the gravity up. then I started thinking that it might be too dry (like my stout), so i altered as below.

***
American IPA.

Type: Extract
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 3.25 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Equipment: Brew Pot (4 Gallon)

Ingredients:

Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.30 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 30.28 %
3.30 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 10 min] Extract 30.28 %
3.30 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 11 min] Extract 30.28 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 9.17 %
2.00 oz Citra [12.30 %] (15 min) Hops 24.3 IBU
2.00 oz Citra [12.30 %] (10 min) Hops 17.8 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.30 %] (5 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
2.00 oz Citra [12.30 %] (1 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
2.00 oz Citra [12.30 %] (Dry Hop; add at rack to 2nd) Hops -
5.00 gal Chicago, IL Water
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.072 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.19 %
Bitterness: 86.5 IBU
Calories: 327 cal/pint
Est Color: 6.7
SRM Color: pail yellowishniss
***

Cheers!

Where are the bittering additions?

All bittering is done with lots of hops late in the boil. Beer Smith gave me IBU's of 86.5 with that hop schedule.

i thought a boil of 30mins + was required to extract bittering characteristics of hops.

It is my understanding that the longer you boil, the more the hop alpha acids will isomerize. However, I am not sure that it takes 30 minutes for that isomerization to begin. I have yet to find anything that states it does, but i am still researching.

With hop bursting, the idea is to obtain you bitterness balance and high hop aroma and flavor by hammering the back end of the boil with way more hops that you would traditionally use. Thus providing the bitterness you need without boiling off all the aroma and flavor.

How long in a boil does it take to hops to begin isomerization? Hmmmmmm....

I say try it. Please post back w results. I am interested how it will turn out.

Definitely give it a try. Why did you decide to do a 60 minute boil? Why not a short 30 or 20 minute boil?

Have you used Citra hops before? My first attempt at using them was ... less than satisfactory. I think I would chose a different hop for hop bursting and use Citra only for dry hopping and maybe very small flavor additions.

davel57 said:

Have you used Citra hops before? My first attempt at using them was ... less than satisfactory. I think I would chose a different hop for hop bursting and use Citra only for dry hopping and maybe very small flavor additions.

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Yeah, my experience with citra was the same. I made an all-citra APA which I hated. It screamed MANGO and was one-dimensional. Very tropical. I dryhopped with caccade hoping to cover some of it, but it ended up tasting like Juicy Fruit gum.

If you're likely to like the hugely tropical mango flavor of the late additions of citra, that's fine. I didn't like it one bit.

BryanJ said:

Definitely give it a try. Why did you decide to do a 60 minute boil? Why not a short 30 or 20 minute boil?

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Agreed. No reason to do a 60 minute boil of the extract, since the point of boiling is for isomerization of the hops oils. Without adding hops, boiling the extract seems pointless.

Right on Right on!

My only experiment with Citra is a songle hop beer I sessioned out that featured it. After that, I though "I want to make this", so i figured give it a shot. My experience with the beers hop profile leads me to believe hop bursting was used.


Boiling to sterilize your ingredience too yes? Shorter boil does make sense though. Pehaps a 20 minute would do me.


I will post results too, hope to get this pig underway this week.

Cheers!

i did hop burst with citra and chinook at the 5 minute mark but only at .75 oz each since it was a rye APA with 40 IBUs. Im quite curious to find out what the citra does in a 5 min hop burst since its still in the primary only a week old now. Bittering was done with first wort simcoe and 45 min simcoe addition. Please keep us informed! Subscribed.

So I am curious why you arn't doing the 60min to bitter, aroma hop aditions late in the game (which seem fine) and if you really want to hammer home the aroma, dry hope the crap out of the beer? When I made a long trail head ipa clone I used something like 3oz of hops in the boil and 2oz of hops as dry hop. I would be curious how this turns out but almost every book I have read states to boil bittering hops for an hour and the later you add the hops the less AA gets isomerized.

Honestly though when I read "I want it to scream hop aroma" I first thought that you would use 2 or 3oz to dry hop.

Here's a good article on late hops

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1249/MJzym06_LateHops.pdf



Bob

Thanks for the link. That is a very interesting article.

Yooper said:

Yeah, my experience with citra was the same. I made an all-citra APA which I hated. It screamed MANGO and was one-dimensional. Very tropical. I dryhopped with caccade hoping to cover some of it, but it ended up tasting like Juicy Fruit gum.

If you're likely to like the hugely tropical mango flavor of the late additions of citra, that's fine. I didn't like it one bit.

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I did an APA style beer that I wanted to use Citra hops with. I wanted that citrusy aroma and taste as well. I would think you would want some more bittering hops on the back end though to back up the flavor and aroma. I could be wrong, though- but it'll be interesting to hear your results.

Buna_Bere said:

Here's a good article on late hops

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1249/MJzym06_LateHops.pdf



Bob

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Good article! As a side note, i like how his anticipated abv on his evil twin recipe was 6.66%.

I did a similar recipe and loved it. Two things I did differently was instead of 2 oz at 1 min, I did 2 oz at 60. The other additions are the same or very close. I also dry hopped with cascade. I love the two together

Go for it. I loved the Citra IPA I did last spring that was split with cascade evenly. I just made basically the same recipe but cut out the cascade.


8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (1.8 SRM) Grain 43.24 %
8 lbs Pale Malt (MO) (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 43.24 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (1.5 SRM) Grain 5.41 %
1 lbs Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.41 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.70 %
3.00 oz Warrior [15.90 %] (90 min) Hops 121.1 IBU
2.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 59.3 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (10 min) Hops 31.0 IBU
4.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] (5 min) Hops 24.1 IBU
2.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2 Pkgs Safale American Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.70 %
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 9.57 %
Bitterness: 235.5 IBU Calories: 415 cal/pint
Est Color: 7.2 SRM Color: Color

smokinghole said:

Go for it. I loved the Citra IPA I did last spring that was split with cascade evenly. I just made basically the same recipe but cut out the cascade.


8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (1.8 SRM) Grain 43.24 %
8 lbs Pale Malt (MO) (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 43.24 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (1.5 SRM) Grain 5.41 %
1 lbs Munich 10L (Briess) (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.41 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.70 %
3.00 oz Warrior [15.90 %] (90 min) Hops 121.1 IBU
2.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (30 min) Hops 59.3 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (10 min) Hops 31.0 IBU
4.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] (5 min) Hops 24.1 IBU
2.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
2 Pkgs Safale American Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.090 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.70 %
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 9.57 %
Bitterness: 235.5 IBU Calories: 415 cal/pint
Est Color: 7.2 SRM Color: Color

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Thats not a hop burst schedule though looks like an imperial ipa recipe you've got. hop burst you wouldn't have the 90 minute or probably even the 30 minute additions.

asterix404 said:

So I am curious why you arn't doing the 60min to bitter, aroma hop aditions late in the game (which seem fine) and if you really want to hammer home the aroma, dry hope the crap out of the beer? When I made a long trail head ipa clone I used something like 3oz of hops in the boil and 2oz of hops as dry hop. I would be curious how this turns out but almost every book I have read states to boil bittering hops for an hour and the later you add the hops the less AA gets isomerized.

Honestly though when I read "I want it to scream hop aroma" I first thought that you would use 2 or 3oz to dry hop.

Click to expand...

You don't have to do bittering additions. Overall you get a smoother bitterness if you stick to later additions. Plus you get the advantage of bigger hop flavor and aroma. It's a legit practice. I do it quite frequently.

For many of my hop focused beers I've moved away from 60 minutes additions. I'll often just do a small first wort hop addition and then nothing but 20 minute or later additions.

You get very smooth bitterness and huge hop flavor.

Congrats incog! I'm impressed this is only your 3rd beer. You already seem to have a pretty good idea of what's going on.

Happy brewing!

What I'm getting at is that the flavor and aroma are great if you like them. Some people don't. That's certainly not a hop burst it's more of a really bitter with tons of late addition. Either way that brew has tons of citra in the brew. So if I end up not liking the stuff I'll surely know after this brew.

michelson39 said:

Congrats incog! I'm impressed this is only your 3rd beer. You already seem to have a pretty good idea of what's going on.

Happy brewing!

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Thanks for the encouragement. I am thinking of drying it up a bit by taking out 3 1/3 lbs of extract and replacing with 2 lbs of dextrose. And if I do that I may be able to kick this pig tonight if i get out of curling early enough.

10 lbs of extract and a finishing gravity of ~1.017 has me worried it might be a little to sweet. Any thoughts on that?

2 thoughts on that:

1 - do replace it with dextrose to make it dryer.
or
2 - don't and learn what a 1.017 beer tastes like. it certainly won't be bad.

I'd tend towards 2. Keep it simple at first and see if you actually need to adjust anything.

incog said:

Thanks for the encouragement. I am thinking of drying it up a bit by taking out 3 1/3 lbs of extract and replacing with 2 lbs of dextrose. And if I do that I may be able to kick this pig tonight if i get out of curling early enough.

10 lbs of extract and a finishing gravity of ~1.017 has me worried it might be a little to sweet. Any thoughts on that?

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With a nice sized starter and lots of aeration or oxygenation you should be fine! I personally like a sweeter finish anyway when I do a big hoppy beer, not bitter but hoppy! I just did a brown with a strong hop flavor that finished at 1.021 and I love it!

im and advocate of first wort hopping and knock out hopping myself. seems a bit more well rounded imo.

jfrank85 said:

im and advocate of first wort hopping and knock out hopping myself. seems a bit more well rounded imo.

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this is how I do it. all at first and double it up at the end. and dry hop the snot out of it.

buzzkill said:

this is how I do it. all at first and double it up at the end. and dry hop the snot out of it.

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Great minds think a like i guess

Alright. Gearing up here to brew. I am using WYeast liquid 1056 American. This is my first time using liquid. Should i let it warm to room temp before i smack the nutrient pack inside?

Also, what is holding the nutrients? I am guessing i do not have to worry about introducing it to the fermentor, yes? OR should i try to catch it on its way out?

AAlso, (heh) the WYeast bag say "...wort up to 1.060 OG...". My OG is estimated at 1.072. Need i worry about that?

Thanks all.

No need to let it warm up. It shouldn't really matter either way.

Its a little plastic bag that holds the nutrients. You'll see it. I probably wouldn't leave it in the fermentor but if it touches your wort it's not going to hurt anything.

RDWHAHB

michelson39 said:

RDWHAHB

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Nice. Thanks, and will do. Awesome cuz i actually do have a HB to sip for the first time while brewing (my Irish). Peace in the Middle East.

Trying now to cool this pig down. The yeast are pissed and want at this mutha!

LoL they're gonna do work!

jfrank85 said:

LoL they're gonna do work!

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No joke bro. They are off. The packet was about to blow. Wort tastes great. Pitched at 9:40pm Central Time, 4 degrees sooner than I wanted to, but we will just sleep with the heat down tonight. HA! Them mutha hubbards get to town though, it might be all over.

OG was a bit lower as I tried to compensate for the solids that made it into the fermentor. Instead of 72, I am sitting at a hard 68. That is at 76 degrees though, so maybe i am sitting closer to 1.070.

I'm stoked. Feels good creating.

My closet smells like Hop Heaven. The car boy I boiling with the 72 degree fury of yeast that cannot get enough, and with a kräusen that threatens to take up the rest of the boy. Now I want to do a higher G brew, just to watch the show on that.

First things first, on with the experiment...:rockin:

nice! its only 7:30am here but i kind of what to have a beer to celebrate.

...racked it to secondary 6 days ago. the brew is darker than i hoped, but smells awesome. Tastes green as all hell. Really clean too. Probably due to my not dry hopping it yet. Gonna do that after 2 weeks in the secondary.

Onward! :rockin:

What's the advantage of waiting 2 weeks in the secondary to dry hop, as opposed to dry hopping right away when you transfer to the secondary?

Looper said:

What's the advantage of waiting 2 weeks in the secondary to dry hop, as opposed to dry hopping right away when you transfer to the secondary?

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I want the beer to condition for 3 weeks at least and loose that green flavor it has. That said I do not want to loose the hop aroma gained by the dry hop. If I dry hopped it right as I racked it to the secondary, I believe I would loose a lot of that hop aroma as I experienced with my first IPA.

With my fist IPA, I dry hopped it right away and let it condition for 3 weeks.
- At the end of the first week, aroma was all there
- After the second, it was there but noticeably diminished.
- After the 3 weeks (bottling day) the aroma was there but only with a nice hefty whiff.

I want this one to smack me in the eye with a closed fist of Citra, so I am trying this out. Please note that this is only my third beer, and I may be completely wrong. I am just following some advice, and experimenting. Learning my ways if you will.