Rye PA: Discuss

I'm hoping to brew a Rye PA during my Thanksgiving break and I've never done a rye beer. I know the Dude is a rye expert, and I think BP brews with rye. Anybody else?

What I'm thinking based on my research (read surfing the web at work) so far is:

75% or so 2-row
15% rye malt
8% crystal 40
3-5% biscuit/victory

OG around 1054
IBU's around 40-45

S-56 yeast

What say ye? I don't want a monster beer in this case...I need an instructional experience

With the rye beers I've made, I find it best to keep the hopping levels moderate. Hops tend to overshadow the rye taste, IMHO.

Yours looks good - I would just go easy on flavor & aroma hops to let the rye shine through. Also, use a LOT of rice hulls. Rye is so sticky it's ridiculous, so I wouldn't go over 15-20%. I have a Love/Hate rye beer in my sig because I love to drink it & hate to make it.

Thanks for the advice...the malted rye will definitely be somewhere around 15% to start with, and I'll bump it up or down (or leave it alone) based on how this one turns out. I'll keep the hops in mind, as well, perhaps lean towards the 40 IBU mark.

Hey Baron,

I'm new to this forum (tonight actually), but interestingly enough, I tried Terrapin's Rye Pale Ale this weekend and really liked it. I'm thinking about brewing a Rye-P-A myself.

On their website they tell us that, in addition to base malt and Rye, they also use Honey Malt, Munich Malt, Crystal 40, and Victory Malt. I've made an APA that is really good using all those same ingredients (minus the rye), so I think I've got a pretty good recipe for this one.

I'm planning to use a bit more rye than you were (I'm going 21%)...

63% Base Pale Malt
21% Rye Malt
7% Honey Malt
3.5% Crystal 40L
3.5% Light Munich
2% Victory Malt

About the same OG and IBU's

I hope it turns out. I'll keep you posted...

Definitely let us know how it goes. Terrapin's Rye PA is the one I tasted that I really liked. I've never tried HRR, but Walker is going to comp me a sip at some point. But I'm not really looking for a huge HRR type beer here, something more like the Terrapin would be great. Subtract the honey and Munich malts and it's basically the same recipe (Victory is quite similar to biscuit).

Baron von BeeGee said:

I've never tried HRR, but Walker is going to comp me a sip at some point.

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If you call 22 oz a sip.....

-walker

HRR is a great beer, but I don't think it has much rye character. Still one of the best I've had, though.

alemonkey said:

HRR is a great beer, but I don't think it has much rye character. Still one of the best I've had, though.

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I thought it was too over-the-top. Very malty and (because of this) very hoppy.

Don't get me wrong... it was good, but I can't see myself drinking it very often. I'll tuck it away with my stash of Big Foot for those special days.

I've also had the Terripin Rye, which is a tasty beer, but honestly... I think I like Dude's Red Eye Rye more than either HRR or Terrapin's Rye PA.

Baron von BeeGee said:

I know the Dude is a rye expert,

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Uh..hardly!

For you guys ripping HRR, WTF? I think that is an outstanding beer. Very malty and very hoppy. If I could have one a day I'd be in heaven.

I liked mine as well--it was pretty much a HRR clone but like 12 gravity points and 15 IBUs less. I'll do it again but I'm not using any cascade at all. I dry hopped it with one of those magical dissolving hop tablets and it was too much cascade for a beer that shouldn't really be overly citrusey.

Anyway...Beegee the recipe basics look good but be careful with theeh biscuit.

I can't believe Dude didn't say it, so I will: Watch your crush! Flour + rye= stuck.

Dude said:

For you guys ripping HRR, WTF? I think that is an outstanding beer. Very malty and very hoppy. If I could have one a day I'd be in heaven...

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Well said Dude!!! Defend the HHR!!!

I brew my HRR clone all the time, and love it. Its one of my most brewed beers. Super hop flavor, and nice and malty. I also love using rye and experiment all the time with all kinds of beer types.

Anyway, looking at the recipe, my addition would be flaked rye as well. The flakes have a large surface area and provide a nice concentrated, clean rye flavor. Rye flakes are usually pregelatinized, which allows the starches to be readily soluble and digestable by the naturally occuring enzymes in your other barley malts in your mash. The flakes do not need to be milled, and will soak up water and disintegrate quickly, and do not hurt sparging all that much. Myself, I usually use 1/2lb of flakes to every 1lb of rye malt.

As for using rye malt itself, usually you can use up to 20% before you have any troubles sparging. Anything over 20%, you may want to add rice hulls to your mash to allow for normal sparge.

Thats my 2 cents and experience anyway.

Yep, the biscuit will be 4oz at the most...just want a little bready action to go with the rye, really explore the whole pumpernickel idea. Besides, many recipes I've seen have a little biscuit or victory with the rye so who am I to challenge success?

Tell me about the flakes...is it a different flavor contribution? Why not go all malted rye or all flakes? I'm pretty sure my LHBS has both.

I have rice hulls on hand as I like wheats, so I'll probably add 1/2# just for the hell of it.

Flaked rye adds a real great rye flavor, but has negligible diastatic power (enzyme break down of starch into maltose and dextrose), but rye malt has a diastatic power close to that of your base malt, as well as malt flavor.

Also, rye malt adds more of a reddish color to your wort, where as flaked doesnt.

Gotcha. I may make a judgment call at the HBS. The flaked rye sounds great, but I do want the reddish color. It'll probably depend on what's in stock. I also want to reduce the variables as much as possible so that I can get a good handle on what the rye malt brings to the table.

Well the DP of flaked rye is inconsequential in theses percentages, but the red hue of the malted stuff might be nice. An ounce or two of carafa special III should approximate that though.

Look who woke up!1!

Baron von BeeGee said:

Look who woke up!1!

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Get off my back! Everything that has been said has met my approval thus far. My post was frivolous anyway because I know for a fact that you wouldn't add a grain for the mere aesthetic of color enhancement on an inaugural style-brew and frankly, neither would I!

Edit: LOL!!!1

That brings up another topic...the use of grain as purely an aesthetic modification of color. I mean, I know we drink with our eyes first, but if it doesn't actually enhance flavor...

Rye Not?

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

10-A American Ale, American Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.060
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 54
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.50
Anticipated OG: 1.056 Plato: 13.81
Anticipated SRM: 7.1
Anticipated IBU: 41.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.048 SG 11.82 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For First Wort Hops: -10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
71.4 7.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
14.3 1.50 lbs. Flaked Rye America 1.034 2
9.5 1.00 lbs. Crystal 20L America 1.035 20
4.8 0.50 lbs. Biscuit Malt Belgium 1.035 24

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.75 oz. Chinook Whole 12.00 35.2 First WH
0.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 3.3 15 min.
0.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 2.5 10 min.
0.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

Danstar Nottingham


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 0.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 10.50
Water Qts: 13.13 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 3.28 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.25 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 153 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Sparge Temp : 0 Time: 0


Total Mash Volume Gal: 4.12 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

Rye beer good! HRR very good! Draft HRR thank you Jesus!

I love rye in beer and find I toss it in lots of brews because of the peppery character it gives. I think the hopping discussion is only correct to a point. You can use rye in a IIPA and the rye will still add a great tone to the brew. On the other hand, if you want to highlight the flavor go easy on the hops. My personal feeling is that you should be on the hoppy side, rather then the malty side and avoid the light summer rye crap that some of those mega micros have been throwing out. What are they trying to do with Sunrye anyway?

Mr. Baron, IMHO I think your recipe is a great place to start. I agree with the idea that flaked or malted is a LHS call.

Sweet...I'm still on the path to enlightenment. This will definitely not be a summery ale type beer, just more of an APA with rye. I see the Chairman is on board, too! Whose rye will reign supreme?! A la TUN!

BTW, the Chairman is thinking along the same lines that I am on the hops: Chinook/Cascade. I might go with Columbus as I have a nice brick of that, but I've been using it a lot and need to get back to the ol' standby.

Only difference is that after my success with my recent IPA using FWH, I'm thinking to FWH with Cascades (as opposed to a 20m addition), bitter with Chinook as usual, and then a big 0m addition of Cascade.

Now that does sound tasty. I personally like EKG with rye.

Well, I've got some of that, too. You've truly given me something to pray on.

One more thing we haven't discussed: mashing. B-G rest? No? I'm really planning a single infusion in the 150-152 range which is where I like my PA's.

I think a single step will do it and the temps. you suggest willgive the 1.052 -54 a good body balance.

I was also thinking about FWH and a B-G rest. I think with this small percentage we'll be fine without the rest, much over 20% and I'll definitely consider it though. Then again, after this initial brew I may reconsider the B-G rest for a 15%er too!

I just finished up drinking a Rye IPA. The recipe came from Denny Conn who some may know his name. It got such rave reviews on another board I just had to try it and I am going to be doing this one again. Rye malt was 18% of the malt bill and he uses Mt. Hood and Columbus hops. I was little short on the suggested OG of 1.073 but it didn't make that big of a difference for me. Recipe is here > http://www.brew-monkey.com/recipes/html/connsryeipa.htm
The suggested yeast (Brewtek CL-50) is not very common at HBS and recomended replacements are California Ale WLP 051 or the Wyeast equivalent. I found the rye taste really nice and the beer had a silky feel when I drank it. Good Luck with yours.

Thanks for the input guys. In honor of the bird that Ben Franklin thought should be the national symbol of the US of A, as well as our own Brewpastor's newfound magazine infamy (I may mix in some rye flakes):

Big Tom Rye

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 12.00
Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.45
Anticipated SRM: 7.6
Anticipated IBU: 41.1
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
75.0 9.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
16.7 2.00 lbs. Rye Malt America 1.035 4
6.3 0.75 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
2.1 0.25 lbs. Biscuit Malt Belgium 1.035 24

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.00 g. Cascade Whole 5.75 7.0 First WH
22.00 g. Chinook Whole 13.00 34.1 60 min.
28.00 g. Cascade Whole 5.75 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1056 Amercan Ale/Chico


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name:

Total Grain Lbs: 12.00
Total Water Qts: 14.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 73.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saccharification 5 60 151 151 Infuse 164 14.00 1.17
Mash out 5 30 170 170 Infuse 210 7.79 1.82


Total Water Qts: 21.79 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 5.45 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 6.41 - After Additional Infusions

You calling me a turkey?!

That looks like a great recipe. Keep us informed.

I'm calling you Ben Franklin's idea of a national hero!

I think the pH of your mash water looks off!

Chairman Cheyco said:

Oh sure, HIS recipe looks 'great.' Mine doesn't even warrant comment...

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Gosh, Chairman, that recipe sure looks swell. Yum, yum, really tasty. Rye huh?!

Does that help?

Brewpastor said:

Gosh, Chairman, that recipe sure looks swell. Yum, yum, really tasty. Rye huh?!

Does that help?

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No, you're fired. Next time pick the right religion as well, please.

:cross:

Chairman Cheyco said:

Next time pick the right religion as well, please.

:cross:

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Other then beer?! But that only leaves one of those mainline options and they are full of stuffy old preachers with bad hair.

Brewpastor said:

Other then beer?! But that only leaves one of those mainline options and they are full of stuffy old preachers with bad hair.

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That's true...I think all but one of the ministers at my hometown church were bald or nearly so. Might want to watch out for that one.

:fro:

Baron von BeeGee said:

In honor of the bird....

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Why thank you, I'm honored...

You've earned it!

Ingredients in hand, so I'm locked and loaded...only substitution was CaraMunich I for the Crystal 40 which is fine.

Going ahead and brewing mine up tonight!