Kari Poikolainen's "Perfect Drinking and Its Enemies" Book: What is Moderate Drinking

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I feel sure you've got it worse, but in Pennsylvania all alcohol, including beer, is sold by state run stores (although they seem to be lightening up on that).



To that end, there is an enforceable law on the books that disallows anyone from carrying more than one bag (or case) of alcohol outside of the store at one time. In other words if you pick up two cases of beer, you've got to make two trips.


What.
 
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I feel sure you've got it worse, but in Pennsylvania alcohol, including beer, is sold by state run stores. There are places that sell 6packs here and there, but for the most part it all gets sold in state stores. There is no such thing as running to the grocery store to pick up a 6 pack, although they do seem to be lightening up on that.

To that end, there is an enforceable law on the books that disallows anyone from carrying more than one bag (or case) of alcohol outside of the store at one time. In other words if you pick up two cases of beer, you've got to make two trips.

Pennsylvania rules are just bizarre.

My brother lives in Pittsburgh. He usually drives to Ohio to buy his beer.
 
With a global population of 7.3 billion and growing, do you really think a $2-$3 dollar a day pill to provide a minimum lifespan of 100 years is such a good idea?

Yes.
Cardiovascular decease doesn't mean people suddenly die from heart attacks as soon as they have nothing to contribute to society.

They also undergo decades of incredibly costly treatments.
It actually costs all of us hundreds of billions in health costs (~ about $1,000 a year per every US citizen, projected to become $2,500 per person by 2030) and additional hundreds of billions in lost productivity.

e.g., from this science article
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/8/933.long

"By 2030, 40.5% of the US population is projected to have some form of CVD. Between 2010 and 2030, real (2008$) total direct medical costs of CVD are projected to triple, from $273 billion to $818 billion. Real indirect costs (due to lost productivity) for all CVD are estimated to increase from $172 billion in 2010 to $276 billion in 2030, an increase of 61%."
 
Having 3-5 homebrews can add up to almost 1,000 calories. I can't see myself getting all the other nutrients I need, including fiber and protein, and stay under the anti-beer-belly maximum.

average 12-oz beer is typically about 150 calories (most calories come from alcohol, not "carbohydrates" - a lot of my friends think beer has more calories than wine or vodka, but for the same alcohol amount it's remarkably similar - beer belly is a myth in that sense - if you consume X grams of alcohol, you get about same calories regardless of source, basically)

Same as 12-oz of coke. Big Mac is 500 calories. Just cut out sodas and Big Mac and fries and have a few homebrews instead.

One thing I didn't know before, but learned from Pokolainen book, is that when you drink beer, about 20% of calories from alcohol is consumed by gut bacteria, you never get to metabolize them yourself.

Also, apparently the same gut bacteria also produce about 1/3 worth of a beer bottle of alcohol (just a few grams of alcohol) in your stomach, from sugars you consume. So all of us - even people who claim to be alcohol-free, do "consume" some alcohol on daily basis, produced in our own stomachs.
 
Also, apparently the same gut bacteria also produce about 1/3 worth of a beer bottle of alcohol (just a few grams of alcohol) in your stomach, from sugars you consume. So all of us - even people who claim to be alcohol-free, do "consume" some alcohol on daily basis, produced in our own stomachs.

Indeed, that is why alcoholics in withdrawal often find themselfs heavily craving sugar.

Anyhow, seeing this I will just continue to cut down my carbs and push my veggys for vitamins and my protein as I work out. Sounds like a good idea.

Also, seeing the benifit from being a blood thinner drinking coffee in the mourning and beer in the evening should go hand in hand, no?
 
average 12-oz beer is typically about 150 calories (most calories come from alcohol, not "carbohydrates" - a lot of my friends think beer has more calories than wine or vodka, but for the same alcohol amount it's remarkably similar - beer belly is a myth in that sense - if you consume X grams of alcohol, you get about same calories regardless of source, basically)

Same as 12-oz of coke. Big Mac is 500 calories. Just cut out sodas and Big Mac and fries and have a few homebrews instead.

My homebrews are calculated around 241 calories each according to BrewTarget. My last batch was an IPA.

I don't drink sodas or Big Macs. With just simply eating healthy, it would be tough to fit in 1,000 calories of beer on top of a good diet that can sustain an active lifestyle.
 
My homebrews are calculated around 241 calories each according to BrewTarget. My last batch was an IPA.

I don't drink sodas or Big Macs. With just simply eating healthy, it would be tough to fit in 1,000 calories of beer on top of a good diet that can sustain an active lifestyle.
I highly doubt your beer has that many calories unless it's like 8%.


You guys are all so funny, justifying drinking in excess because a book says so. Believe everything you read? Not that I don't think the American guidelines are happy horsesh*t either...
 
average 12-oz beer is typically about 150 calories (most calories come from alcohol, not "carbohydrates" - a lot of my friends think beer has more calories than wine or vodka, but for the same alcohol amount it's remarkably similar - beer belly is a myth in that sense - if you consume X grams of alcohol, you get about same calories regardless of source, basically)

Same as 12-oz of coke. Big Mac is 500 calories. Just cut out sodas and Big Mac and fries and have a few homebrews instead.

I agree with this. Obviously beer has calories that count toward the drinker’s bottom line, but anecdotally, it seems to me that lots of guys tend to put a disproportionate amount of blame on beer as the architect of guts.

One “bachelor” friend of mine has weight that tends to fluctuate by fairly wide swings. I was over at his house one time and—true story—he was eating a pack of Slim Jims and a bag of Fritos for dinner. That’s an extreme example and not necessarily “typical” for him, but the point is, he is completely ignorant of nutrition and his diet is all around pretty atrocious. Yet, to this day, when his weight spikes upward, the obvious culprit is his Busch intake—it’s hilarious.

Another friend of mine and fellow beer lover, who is actually a very skilled cook, was lamenting last year about his “beer belly”. In the months since, he has made a conscious effort to pay attention to the amount of completely unnecessary calories he consumes by means of breaded/fried foods (especially chicken wings), late night snacks, cheeses, oils, sugars, etc. In combination with that, he has started doing 20 minutes of exercise a few days a week. He is now down about 50 lbs and getting compliments left and right. His beer consumption has not moved one iota.

These are just two examples I have seen personally, but by no means the only examples.
 
I highly doubt your beer has that many calories unless it's like 8%.


You guys are all so funny, justifying drinking in excess because a book says so. Believe everything you read? Not that I don't think the American guidelines are happy horsesh*t either...

there you go again - perfect example. "Drinking in excess" - in excess of what? According to who? "Excess" is defined differently across different nations, in some one beer or more is excessive, in others half a bottle of wine at dinner is fine.

Also, it's not "a book" that says so. The author is not just making up some arguments on his own. It's backed up by years, decades of rigorous scientific research with hundreds of thousands participants, in fact going all the way back to 1930ies studies by the same scientist who was first to discover smoking was linked to higher mortality - studies that were mostly ignored for decades.

The fact that drinking in "moderation" has substantial positive overall effects on health is basically widely accepted in medical and scientific communities. The fact that "moderation" is not at 1 drink a day on occasion, but in fact extends to 2-3 or even 2-4 drinks also appears to be actually well accepted based on some of the literature I looked into, after reading the book - in fact much of the community is trying to figure out detailed mechanisms now of these benefits, rather than where or not they exist - that fact is long settled, even though not well advertised.

I approach this question as a scientist, and there is a lot of misinformation and misinterpretation, and of course push-back which comes from press, bad policies, and advocacy groups.

It is somewhat understandable why some people resist accepting the fact that 2 or 3 or 4 drinks daily (slow, with food, low-ABV) is actually better for you than drinking 1 drink or not drinking at all - they fear that risks of drunk driving, bad social/immoral behavior or escalating 3 drinks a day into 20 (alcoholism) outweighs the health benefits. But it's akin to outlawing or severely limited all cellphone use because some people like to text while driving - makes no sense.

Assuming most of us can drink responsibly without operating motor vehicles, and assuming that 3 beers does not automatically lead to 33 beers a day - what is "moderate" drinking amount that maximizes health benefits? I guess this is the question I am trying to ask, and all answers point to: 1 beer is better than 0, but 2-3 is even better, and even 4 is still good. This is in strike contrast to "accepted" wisdom of - any alcohol is bad for you, but maybe a drink here and there is Ok. But no more than 2, because then it's really bad for you.
 
I highly doubt your beer has that many calories unless it's like 8%.

The 240 calories is from the calculator. The FG was 1.017 on that one, and an ABV calculated at 7.6%. Even if a beer was closer to 5%, I still couldn't find the time and the ability to knock down 4-5 beers after I am done working and done driving, every evening. It would have to be over a few hour period, I'd have to have a glass with me at all times until I go to sleep at night. Totally impractical for me.
 
there you go again - perfect example. "Drinking in excess" - in excess of what? According to who? "Excess" is defined differently across different nations, in some one beer or more is excessive, in others half a bottle of wine at dinner is fine.

Also, it's not "a book" that says so. The author is not just making up some arguments on his own. It's backed up by years, decades of rigorous scientific research with hundreds of thousands participants, in fact going all the way back to 1930ies studies by the same scientist who was first to discover smoking was linked to higher mortality - studies that were mostly ignored for decades.

The fact that drinking in "moderation" has substantial positive overall effects on health is basically widely accepted in medical and scientific communities. The fact that "moderation" is not at 1 drink a day on occasion, but in fact extends to 2-3 or even 2-4 drinks also appears to be actually well accepted based on some of the literature I looked into, after reading the book - in fact much of the community is trying to figure out detailed mechanisms now of these benefits, rather than where or not they exist - that fact is long settled, even though not well advertised.

I approach this question as a scientist, and there is a lot of misinformation and misinterpretation, and of course push-back which comes from press, bad policies, and advocacy groups.

It is somewhat understandable why some people resist accepting the fact that 2 or 3 or 4 drinks daily (slow, with food, low-ABV) is actually better for you than drinking 1 drink or not drinking at all - they fear that risks of drunk driving, bad social/immoral behavior or escalating 3 drinks a day into 20 (alcoholism) outweighs the health benefits. But it's akin to outlawing or severely limited all cellphone use because some people like to text while driving - makes no sense.

Assuming most of us can drink responsibly without operating motor vehicles, and assuming that 3 beers does not automatically lead to 33 beers a day - what is "moderate" drinking amount that maximizes health benefits? I guess this is the question I am trying to ask, and all answers point to: 1 beer is better than 0, but 2-3 is even better, and even 4 is still good. This is in strike contrast to "accepted" wisdom of - any alcohol is bad for you, but maybe a drink here and there is Ok. But no more than 2, because then it's really bad for you.

I getcha, just kinda weird seeing all this. I'm not very good at drinking slow, that's for sure. So if that's the way it should be done, I'm f*cked...
I probably drink a pint in 30 minutes if I'm focusing on the beer. Any longer and it starts to get warmer than I like, especially if it's a hot day.
 
3. Drinking slowly (sipping, not gulping), drinking with food (slows down adsorption of alcohol in intestines even more), drinking in the evening, drinking lower-ABV drinks - such as beer, as opposed to hard liquor, dramatically increases health benefits.

Which makes more sense to me, rather than each unit of alcohol being the same.

Really interesting stuff. I'd guess some of the mortality would be based on stress relief.
 

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