First BIAB not getting off to a great start.

First BIAB not getting off to a great start. Even with 50 batches done in the cooler... once you change your process you can't take anything for granted.

For example: Although the online calculators estimate that 8.5 gallons of water and 14lbs of grist should fill 9.63 gallons of kettle... it actually took up a little over 10 gallons of kettle. Guess who has a 10 gallon kettle? #making_a_mess

Now I am just trusting that the high mash-in temp will hold enough for conversion over 60 minutes because I don't want to open that mess up again anytime soon.

Mash out should be fun. I'll keep you posted.

Mash dropped from 156 to 149 over 60 minutes in an insulated kettle in a drafty area. I'm not too worried about it; starch test came back clean. This is a clone of the SN Celebration Ale from a recent BYO article which says to mash at like 158. I started at 156 cuz I'm chicken and it'll be OK.

I raised the temp no problem and now am contemplating how to handle picking up the bag.....

Good luck, nutty. Unfortunately I don't have any advice for you. In fact I'm going to do my first BiAB soon, so I'm hoping to leach advice off your lessons learned. Let us know how it goes and what you might do different/same next time.

nutty_gnome said:

I raised the temp no problem and now am contemplating how to handle picking up the bag.....

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I've had success with a hook and pulley system in the garage.

Ignore the beer in the foreground.

The pulley is critical when you get up to 10 gallon batches in my opinion. I still hold the bag over my pot for my 5 gallon batches for 15 minutes and that's murderously annoying.

Good Luck. Im doing a BIAB batch right now as well. Only 5 gallons though, i got my brewing rig all put together today so im hoping to minimize messes and make the whole brew day easier.

Hi nutty gnome, I did my first BIAB yesterday. Two batches. 1st Belgium Tripel had a 15 lb grain bill. Second basic special bitter had a 10 lb bill. There were a few hiccups and the first one was an organize fire drill. I place the grain bag on a rack over the brew pot and let it drain. Because of the big grain bill the bag "muffin topped" the pot and some dripped down the sides, on to the deck...the smaller grain bill did not muffin on me. I also batch sparked about 4-5 qts over the bag. All in all it was lots of fun using new technique. Two brews start to finish 9.5 hrs (that is set-up to clean up). Best of luck. Merry Christmas

So now its cooling. For what its worth it was a 5.5 gallon batch of celebration clone. Bag handling was dicey because I hadn't really thought about how much the bag weighed with grains and water. I ended up inverting a plastic rubbermaid collandar in a spare brew bucket and put the bag in there. It drained well but was tough to pull back out of the bucket.

I was surprised to note that I didn't need the .5 gallon of sparge to reach my pre-boil value. I lost one gallon from the initial 8.5 strike water leaving me my goal of 7.5. I had figured I would lose 1.5 gallons to the grains so that needs looking into.

Next time, I will deduct a gallon from whatever the calculators say about the volume needed to mash 14 lbs of grain. What a pain in the arse to clean that up. I'd rather add sparge water than clean mash from the floor.

As for efficiency: I had figured the recipe for an efficency of 70% but hit much closer to 80. This is in-line with what the shopowner said to expect so I was pleasantly surprised.

I liked not mucking about with the cooler and next time I'm going to find a grill grate to lay across the kettle. That should handily solve the problem.

nutty_gnome said:

Next time, I will deduct a gallon from whatever the calculators say about the volume needed to mash 14 lbs of grain. What a pain in the arse to clean that up. I'd rather add sparge water than clean mash from the floor.

I liked not mucking about with the cooler and next time I'm going to find a grill grate to lay across the kettle. That should handily solve the problem.

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Yes lessen learned, alway mash BIAB conservatively within your kettle limitations, say a 1/2 to 1 gallon low, then you can add hot or boiling water back in to reach the kettle limits...

Yes, a grill grate, collander or even a mash paddle placed across the kettle rim makes it easier to take the weight of the bag while draining. Or just drop the bag in your cooler and collect those runnings later on...good luck on honing your process...other than the issues you descibed, the bag work OK for ya?

Simple strap to a hook in the cieling makes easy work...
http://www.harborfreight.com/set-of-2-1-inch-x-12-ft-lashing-straps-67386.html

sfrisby said:

I've had success with a hook and pulley system in the garage.

Ignore the beer in the foreground.

Click to expand...

How do you ignore the westy 12! Good for you sir. How was it?

nutty_gnome said:

Next time, I will deduct a gallon from whatever the calculators say about the volume needed to mash 14 lbs of grain. What a pain in the arse to clean that up. I'd rather add sparge water than clean mash from the floor.

As for efficiency: I had figured the recipe for an efficency of 70% but hit much closer to 80. This is in-line with what the shopowner said to expect so I was pleasantly surprised.

Click to expand...

Did you mill your own grain, and if not where did you buy your grain from? I'm sitting at 68% efficiency for this batch (And i've had alot worse in the past) but im curious on what you did.

nutty_gnome said:

Next time, I will deduct a gallon from whatever the calculators say about the volume needed to mash 14 lbs of grain. What a pain in the arse to clean that up. I'd rather add sparge water than clean mash from the floor.

I liked not mucking about with the cooler and next time I'm going to find a grill grate to lay across the kettle. That should handily solve the problem.

Click to expand...

Yes lessen learned, alway mash BIAB conservatively within your kettle limitations, say a 1/2 to 1 gallon low, then you can add hot or boiling water back in to reach the kettle limits at mashout time...

Yes, a grill grate, collander or even a mash paddle placed across the kettle rim makes it easier to take the weight of the bag while draining. Or just drop the bag in your cooler and collect those runnings later on...good luck on honing your process...other than the issues you descibed, the bag work OK for ya?

Simple strap to a hook in the cieling makes easy work even w/ huge grain bils...
http://www.harborfreight.com/set-of-2-1-inch-x-12-ft-lashing-straps-67386.html

So, here's how I make sure I can brew something:

A.) Use this calculator, set the absorption rate to .08, and make sure that "Total Water Needed" and "Mash Water Needed" are equal. You'll need to figure out your boil-off rate. Usually takes a couple brews.

B. Use the "Can I Mash It" calculator from this page filling in the appropriate values.

Example: Using the mash water calculator from A, 5 gallons, 10 lbs of grain, .08 absorption, and 10% boiloff rate, adjust the mash thickness value to 3.267%, leaving both Mash Water Needed and Total Water needed equal to 8.17 gallons of water.

Then, in the "Can I Brew It" calculator from B, enter 10 lbs grain, 3.267 for mash thickness, giving you the result "This mash will take up 8.97 gallons of space."

Edit: The absorption rate assumes you're squeezing your grains after the mash.

Final thoughts for the night. HOLY CRAP what is all that sediment in the carboy and will it ever go away?!?!?!?

It was soley by chance that after it was in the fermentor it had cooled to exactly fermentation temp. So I pitched 2 rehydrated packs of US-05 and 2 hours later stuff is happening.

& To eulipion2 - Thanks for the effort. Those are the calculators I used and have been using for a while now. I figured from the Rackers site that 14 pounds of grain takes up 9.6 gallons of volume for 8.5 gallons of mash water. That figure was supposed to give me a bit of wiggle room, but it wasn't enough. Oh well, live and learn. I then went to Brew 365 to figure my strike temp for the 8.5 gallons. Brew 365 was spot on. I'll leave more room for error next time.

Seriously... What is with the sediment pile in the fermentor? I feel like I should have made 8 gallons at full strength and then pulled 5.5 clear gallons from the pot. WOW what a mess. We shall see I guess.

The bag held up fine. No tangible, chunky material got through and it stayed put. I like it! You should make these for coolers too.

Sorry my usually calculator combo didn't work for you.

I tend to get a lot of sediment because I no-chill, so the break material coagulates as the wort chills in my cube. Otherwise, I would guess that maybe there's more protein in the kettle that doesn't get filtered out by the grain bed, and maybe that protein didn't coagulate and get left behind in the kettle, but for some reason came out after you racked to primary.

Schlomo said:

Did you mill your own grain, and if not where did you buy your grain from? I'm sitting at 68% efficiency for this batch (And i've had alot worse in the past) but im curious on what you did.

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As i noted before, I'm moving to BIAB after many normal batch sparge brews. So I visited my local home brew shop - Love2brew.com in New Brunswick NJ. They have been BIAB brewing on premises and know the process. They 'double crushed' the grains by running them through the mill twice. Ron W. one of the owners, said he's been getting 80% efficiency for 'regular' sized beers using a 70 min mash and 20 min mash out. they are great guys and will double crush and mail you your grain bill if you call them or use their website. love2brew.com

I think I need to look into a bigger kettle. 10gallons is somewhat marginal for big IPA via BIAB.

I'm a big fan of the no chill process. I did a lot of brews that way and finally a copper immersion chiller fell into my hands. So now I chill. I can't say one is better than the other. I always did like how no-chill allows you to get the cleanest looking wort into a fermenter because it has had proper time to settle the hops, protiens, and sediment.

nutty_gnome said:

Final thoughts for the night. HOLY CRAP what is all that sediment in the carboy and will it ever go away?!?!?!?

Click to expand...

Yes agreed, BIAB does produce a much cloudier wort to the fermenter, but 4 weeks from now in the glass you will be pleased and not know the difference, all that protein will settle out w/ time.

nutty_gnome said:

The bag held up fine. No tangible, chunky material got through and it stayed put. I like it! You should make these for coolers too.

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Great, good news...I can do bags for coolers no problem...cheers!

Tykees said:

How do you ignore the westy 12! Good for you sir. How was it?

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How do you ignore the westy 12! Good for you sir. How was it?[/QUOTE]

Honestly. Overrated. Not worth the hype.

And for what its worth, my biab bag in my picture was purchased from wilser brewer.

If you didn't give yourself enough space for a mash-out infusion, you can always decoct by pulling out some wort, boiling it, and throwing it back in. You might even get a little extra malt complexity!

Its been 2 weeks so I am chilling this one down in prep for a transfer to a secondary carboy where I'll add 2 ounces of dryhop for a week then toss it in a keg.

sfrisby said:

I've had success with a hook and pulley system in the garage.

Ignore the beer in the foreground.

Click to expand...

I will not ignore!

I actually had some from the actually brewery.

nutty_gnome said:

Its been 2 weeks so I am chilling this one down in prep for a transfer to a secondary carboy where I'll add 2 ounces of dryhop for a week then toss it in a keg.

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Why are you moving the beer when all you are doing is adding hops? Hops in the primary give you the same aroma in your beer as hops in the secondary and there is much less risk of infection or oxidation.:rockin:

I don't usually secondary and haven't for years. That said, I don't bag my hops. So when I dry hop in the primary the pellets tend to plummet down into the trub. This batch has at least 2 inches of trub at the bottom, maybe more. I've dryhopped many batches in the primary and although it is a ton easier to do, I am not convinced that I'm getting everything I should when the hops plummet into the trub. Celebration Ale is built on flavor and aroma so the dry hop phase is important.

I understand pros and cons of each method.

I have a spare 5 gallon carboy so I thought I'd move it over onto the hops and let it go a week before kegging. No biggie.

sfrisby said:

And for what its worth, my biab bag in my picture was purchased from wilser brewer.

Click to expand...

Haha, I didn't even recognize my own work in that photo...I forgot I made some limited edition bags w/ the high vis pink cord drawstring...my god what was I thinking at the time...cheers and HNY to all!

So i moved it to a glass 5 gal carboy on top of 2 oz of hops. I lost approx. 0.75 gallon of beer to trub (which is a lot). And there is a 1/2in trub layer in the secondary already.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't plan BIAB batches to brew 6.5 of finished strength wort and then only take 5.5 gallons of the clean stuff to the fermentor after the ridiculous amount of sediment settles in the kettle. Anyone else work their BIAB volumes to avoid the sediment?

nutty_gnome said:

I'm wondering if I shouldn't plan BIAB batches to brew 6.5 of finished strength wort and then only take 5.5 gallons of the clean stuff to the fermentor after the ridiculous amount of sediment settles in the kettle. Anyone else work their BIAB volumes to avoid the sediment?

Click to expand...

If you use BeerSmith, there is a nice feature which lets you account for sediment loss in the boil kettle. You can also try whirlpooling the wort as it cools to make all of the sediment pile up in the middle of the boil kettle, and then siphon from the side. You can additionally pass the wort through a strainer as it goes into the fermenter. After you do this, you can get a good estimation of how much wort is lost.

So the celebration clone has been kegged for a while now and it is great. Very clean tasting with awesome hop flavor. I'm very pleased with it and will brew this recipe again.