English Mild/Bitters

First of all, I'm new here and would like to thank in advance all of you for putting together such a great place to talk about beer. Before I get into the detail of my question, I'll give a little background on myself and my process.

I am a recent homebrewer, and in fact have yet to taste my first batch, a partial mash Pale Ale that I'm going to transfer to a 5 gallon 2ndary this weekend and dry hop. The fermentation was vigorous, starting sunday night (when I made the brew) and pretty much settling by wednesday afternoon.

Aside from all of the obvious reasons why one would homebrew, one of my main incentives to brew was my love for English Bitters and Real Ales the latter which I have, through reading, come to associate with English Milds. As many of you know, it is hard to find truly quaffable examples of these styles stateside. What I want to do, in the interest of $$ and technique, is mash up a nice all-grain Mild recipe to put right on the yeast cake from the recently transferred Pale. My limitations are that I want to adapt the method that (I believe) DeathBrewer talked about and do the whole process on the stove top. I have read quite abit (John Palmer, Papazain as well as plenty of random internet advice) and feel pretty confident about temp maintenance for the mash etc.

So, in sum, do you guys have any suggestions for a nice English Mild that can be brewed from around 12# of grain and achieve an ABV >= 3.0-3.5. And for this style what do you think of doing only a light bittering hop and a more robust dry hop, leaving out the hopping at the 40 min mark of the boil. Thanks for reading through this, and for any advice you have.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f67/mild-mannered-ale-ag-e-uk-us-52776/

A very good Mild that is about as traditional as you can get...

KCBrew said:

I am a recent homebrewer, and in fact have yet to taste my first batch, a partial mash Pale Ale that I'm going to transfer to a 5 gallon 2ndary this weekend and dry hop. The fermentation was vigorous, starting sunday night (when I made the brew) and pretty much settling by wednesday afternoon.

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IMO don't rack to 2ndary that soon, let it sit for at least 2 weeks, ideally 3-4 then transfer for the dry hop addition. Give the yeast time to finish their work and it will also help with clarity.

So, in sum, do you guys have any suggestions for a nice English Mild that can be brewed from around 12# of grain and achieve an ABV >= 3.0-3.5.

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The one in my pulldown is always well-received, though you'll not go wrong with Orfy's!

And for this style what do you think of doing only a light bittering hop and a more robust dry hop, leaving out the hopping at the 40 min mark of the boil. Thanks for reading through this, and for any advice you have.

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I'd not dry-hop a mild; the style showcases the delicate malt flavors and a robust dry-hop would distract, IMO.

carl spakler said:

IMO don't rack to 2ndary that soon, let it sit for at least 2 weeks, ideally 3-4 then transfer for the dry hop addition. Give the yeast time to finish their work and it will also help with clarity.

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It's my first batch though, I was close to drinking 5 gallons of hopped wort last weekend. 3-4 weeks would probably kill me!

My sched. was going to be 8 days primary, 2 weeks 2ndary, 2 weeks bottle. If I do 2 weeks primary would you suggest 2 weeks for 2ndary as well, or longer?


Edit: So the reason I was thinking of a dry hop was to get some of the citrusy hoppy aroma without the bitter. I'm going to lack the strong fruity notes of a real nice Mild b/c I'm using a American Pale yeast (WYeast 1056 I believe), with this yeast and light hopping do you think it'll be too malty?

First beers are the hardest because of the wait. Do you only have one primary? Generally you want to give your beer at least 3 weeks before you bottle. This can be done all in primary or a mix of primary and secondary. The reason we tell you to wait before racking is that yeast does more than just ferment beer. If left on the yeast cake, the yeast will clean up off flavors and clear your beer.

If you only have one primary, leave it 2 weeks and rack to secondary. My advice is to buy another primary now since you will want multiple batches going eventually.

Another thing, generally it takes 3 weeks at 70° in the bottle to get full carbonation. You can certainly try them at 2 weeks but be aware that they will not be as good as they are at 3 weeks. They get even better at 6 weeks in the bottle so make sure you save some so you know what properly carbonated and aged beer tastes like.

If you like milds, Orfy's Mild Mannered Mild is fantastic.

Welcome to HBT!

Thanks so much guys (and gals presumably), I think I've found the type of recipe I'm looking to do, one that is amenable to stove top all grain.

I have no clue as to the ester profile of the WYeast American Pale that I'm using, but since it's a similar family, do you all think that it will work well with the Orfy or flyangler recipes? I think this is turning out to be a better idea than I originally thought b/c I can drink the Mild much younger and wait on the American Pale.

It's going to be cleaner, ester wise, than an English strain but will make very good beer.

For some interesting reading, checkout the "10der and Mild" swap thread. English Mild beers, brewed and shipped within 10 days.

WLP005 has a wonderful english character to it. I have used in several times and have loved it.
American Pale yeast may not fit the style appropriately.

KCBrew said:

Thanks so much guys (and gals presumably), I think I've found the type of recipe I'm looking to do, one that is amenable to stove top all grain.

I have no clue as to the ester profile of the WYeast American Pale that I'm using, but since it's a similar family, do you all think that it will work well with the Orfy or flyangler recipes? I think this is turning out to be a better idea than I originally thought b/c I can drink the Mild much younger and wait on the American Pale.

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There's some latitude in selection of the yeast strain by the style guidelines for Mild - but I prefer a characterful but restrained English yeast in mine. If you want some fruitiness, 1056 won't be of much use to you as it is quite clean and neutral. If you'd like to keep cost down, Windsor or US-04 are fine choices for dry yeast.

KCBrew said:

Aside from all of the obvious reasons why one would homebrew, one of my main incentives to brew was my love for English Bitters and Real Ales the latter which I have, through reading, come to associate with English Milds.

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Point of clarification:

A mild is but one example of a beer that might be a real ale. In general, a "real ale" is term used to describe a beer that has been cask conditioned and served through a hand pump, as opposed to forced with CO2. To my mind, a real ale is usually a bitter, as milds aren't that common in the UK anyway (at least not in the South, where I grew up).

That said, I love a good mild!

I wouldn't rack an English mild onto the yeast cake from a Pale Ale. The Mild is too small of a beer to do so. It's really important when pitching yeast to both not underpitch and not overpitch. Underpitching is usually the bigger problem for most of us, but overpitching is a problem, too -- You need some yeast reproduction going on to produce many of the right flavor compounds. It works fine pitching on a yeast cake when it's a big beer (e.g., a 1.065 IPA) on the cake from a small beer (e.g., a 1.040 bitter), because the yeast will need to do some reproduction to ferment out the bigger beer. However, going the other way around is probably asking for trouble.

I always operate on a +20 point rule -- I'll consider using the whole cake if the new wort is at least 20 gravity points higher than the old one. If not, just use half the yeast cake, or wash the yeast.

Cool, I actually was planning on doing just using 3/4 cup from the cake, but my homebrew guy (at the store) said directly pitching would be fine, but we didn't get into the style of beer at that point. I would also be interested in doing a Bitters if that is more suited to the Pale ale yeast (although I got pretty excited about doing the Mild after reading some of the recipes).

Thoughts on whether the bitters would be more well suited to the Pale yeast than the Mild, or would neither really be suggested...

Either a bitter or a mild is fine for the yeast from a pale ale.

So I'm feeling pretty good about doing Orfy's Mild. I am not, however, going to keg as I have yet to even bottle a batch. I am a fan of the mild carbonation of Real Ales. What do you suggest doing for the bottling? 1/4 cup of corn sugar for 5 gallons? None? Thoughts? I have access to a carbonation chart, so alternatively a carbonation # could be helpful. And what would be the carbonation 'profile' if I just bottled after 7-10 days and started drinking 4-7 days after.

TIA

The usual rule most use is 3/4 cup sugar at bottling for a 5 gallon batch. I think you could easily drop that down to 1/2 cup. Personally, I wouldn't go much lower. Remember the cask-conditioning of real ale is still a carbonation process.