Water to Mash Ratio

I've been brewing for a while and using the standard 1.25 quarts per lb mash ratio. While my beers have been good there is always a "homebrew" taste to them. I was reading over this months BYO and in one of the articles the author mentions that having the same problems at 1.25 per lb but said that after raising it to around 2.0 quarts per lb that it drastically improved the quality of his beer.

Has anyone gone from 1.25 to 2.0 and noticed any substanial increase in quality of their beer? My last recipe was one of Jamil's American Brown Ales, and after changing the mash ratio from 1.25 to 2.0 in beersmith, the sparge would have been reduced to almost nothing.

Darwin18 said:

I've been brewing for a while and using the standard 1.25 quarts per lb mash ratio. While my beers have been good there is always a "homebrew" taste to them. I was reading over this months BYO and in one of the articles the author mentions that having the same problems at 1.25 per lb but said that after raising it to around 2.0 quarts per lb that it drastically improved the quality of his beer.

Has anyone gone from 1.25 to 2.0 and noticed any substanial increase in quality of their beer? My last recipe was one of Jamil's American Brown Ales, and after changing the mash ratio from 1.25 to 2.0 in beersmith, the sparge would have been reduced to almost nothing.

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I use 2.0qt/lb

My eff. jumped several points and think if it this way. Not only COULD you increase your conversion eff., but you are using less sparge water, which will help keep your pH low during the sparge, which will help the quality of your beer.

Try it.

I had kinda the same problem a while back. After mash & sparge, according to Book, I would've started my boil with like 10 gallons. For a 5 gallon batch. I ended up cutting back the sparge water amount, and started the boil with 7 gallons. Maybe that was wrong, but it seemed like it was way too much.

The more you sparge, the greater the poss. of extracting tannins

You should only have to run off 6.5-7 gal. for a 5 gallon batch, you were severely oversparging

Darwin18 said:

I've been brewing for a while and using the standard 1.25 quarts per lb mash ratio. While my beers have been good there is always a "homebrew" taste to them. I was reading over this months BYO and in one of the articles the author mentions that having the same problems at 1.25 per lb but said that after raising it to around 2.0 quarts per lb that it drastically improved the quality of his beer.

Has anyone gone from 1.25 to 2.0 and noticed any substanial increase in quality of their beer? My last recipe was one of Jamil's American Brown Ales, and after changing the mash ratio from 1.25 to 2.0 it almost completely reduced the sparge to nothing.

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That quote was from me. The quality claim is more related to no-sparge than the mash thickness, really. Jamil (and many others) have stated that your first runnings are your best quality wort. With that logic in mind, I designed my system so that the full pre-boil volume is recirculated and no traditional sparge is ever done. The whole system heats to 170F and then it's drained to the kettle for boil.

Yes, no-sparge is less efficient, but grain's cheap.

I've always used 1.5

I've never really understood why people make such thick mashes. More water improves efficiency and makes for a more stable temperature. All I can come up with is their mash tun is too small.

Why's it always have to be about size?

That said I've got a 10 gallon cooler to mash in. I've had much better results with thin mashes at 1.75-2.0 qt/lb than with 1.25. The quality of my beer has improved dramatically and efficiency went up from low 70s to low 80s. Oh, and stirring soup is much preferable to stirring oatmeal. I'm happy with thinner mashes.

Terje

Thanks for the replies guys. The runnings from the mash are much more concentrated than from the sparge. I think for my next beer that I will have to give a thinner mash a try.

david_42 said:

I've never really understood why people make such thick mashes. More water improves efficiency and makes for a more stable temperature. All I can come up with is their mash tun is too small.

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It was written in a book in the 70's or 80's. I mean, isnt that where people are really getting all of thier knowlege before the explore the wonder of the Interwebz?

Most of the outdated "wisdom" is still perpetuated even on the Interwebz... that is where it comes from, that is why people do it.

People often do things without having any understanding of why. Understanding is the missing key.

As I'm still fairly new to brewing, I have to defer most of my knowledge to the books of those who have gone before. This board is amazing for asking all kinds of questions, even those that may go against widely held beliefs.

I just started brewing all grain in August, after reading Palmer's book, so I started with 2 qts/lb. Yesterday, was only my 5th all grain batch, but I again had an efficiency of 80%. I had been calculating my grain bill based on a target of 75% and every batch so far I have over shot my OG by several gravity points. From now on I am going to plan on obtaining 80%. I brew 5 gallon batches so I start my boil with 7 gallons. With my system after a 60 minute boil , I am down to around 6 gallons. I end up transferring about 5.5 gallons to the fermenter. I batch sparge with what ever water is necessary to get to 7 gallons after my first runnings.

bluegrassbrewer said:

I had been calculating my grain bill based on a target of 75% and every batch so far I have over shot my OG by several gravity points. From now on I am going to plan on obtaining 80%.

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I'd calc it at 78%...There's nothing more disapointing than missing your gravity low by a couple of points.

Warped04 said:

I'd calc it at 78%...There's nothing more disapointing than missing your gravity low by a couple of points.

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I always calc slightly lower than what I get....it's fun going a bit high on gravity, and my FG always ends high anyway...

Isn't it true that looser mashes result in a more fermentable wort?
So you should choose your ratio based upon the beer you want to end up with.
FWIW, I usually use 1.5qt/lb and average around 80%

jldc said:

Isn't it true that looser mashes result in a more fermentable wort?
So you should choose your ratio based upon the beer you want to end up with.
FWIW, I usually use 1.5qt/lb and average around 80%

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People say this, but I have never had a thin mash wort attenuate to any larger degree than its thicker mash counterpart.

I think when they say "thin mashes result in more fermentable wort" they are talking REALLY thin mashes, not 2.0qt/lb

The Pol said:

People say this, but I have never had a thin mash wort attenuate to any larger degree than its thicker mash counterpart.

I think when they say "thin mashes result in more fermentable wort" they are talking REALLY thin mashes, not 2.0qt/lb

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I did a no sparge stout last week. So we're talking about a 9+ gallons in the mash. Checked on the beer yesterday and it's sitting at 1.020. FG was in the 1.050's and I used S-05. I usually don't have a problem with beers not attenuating enough. I'm gonna take it out of the fridge today and give it a swirl.

Just chiming in with my experience.

The Pol said:

People say this, but I have never had a thin mash wort attenuate to any larger degree than its thicker mash counterpart.

I think when they say "thin mashes result in more fermentable wort" they are talking REALLY thin mashes, not 2.0qt/lb

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Kaiser busted this myth with his experiments. Mash thickness has no effect on fermentability of the wort, only on the amount of time required for conversion.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ity_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing

When I sparge, I mash at 1.5 - 2.0 qt/lb, which is rare anymore now that I have my no sparge setup... I lose all of 7% efficiency going no-sparge on a typical 1.050-ish beer, and just load ALL the liquid into the MLT at the start so my mash thickness ends up being about 2.8 qt/lb.

Saccharomyces, have you noticed a difference in taste quality from your no sparge set up? Efficiency doesn't mean as much as friends and family enjoying my beer. I took a look at your no sparge thread, and was intrigued. I have similar equipment minus the pump.

I'm hoping that changing from 1.25 q/lb to 2.0 q/lb or higher will result in better beer.

I am now beginning to mash at 2.5qt/lb. Why? Simple.

You have a pre-boil volume you have to reach, say 7.5 gallons.

If you have a 10lb grain bill:

Mashing at 1.25qt/lb means you have 3.125 gallons in the mash.

Absorption of about 1 gallon leaves you with 2.125 to your kettle.

Leaving you to sparge with 6.375 gallons. That is A LOT of sparging.

NOW IF YOU MASH THIN:

Mashing at 2.5qt/lb means you have 6.25 gallons in the mash.

Absorption of about 1 gallon leaves you with about 5.25 to the kettle.

Leaving you to sparge with 2.25 gallons, that is much more reasonable.

This is why KNOWING your conversion and lauter eff. is so important. If you get your mash regime down so that you have nearly 100% conversion eff. then you can sparge much less. This will create a better quality wort AND you can still achieve 80% eff.

On my last session I had 97% conversion eff. and 91% lauter eff. leaving me with about 88% eff. I DO NOT WANT THIS! I want to lose about 8% eff. so I am mashing thinner and sparging less!

Bottom line, mashing thin will not dry out your beer, but the mash will convert faster and more completely. You will by default be sparging less, which is better for your wort anyhow. Check your mash for complete conversion and when it is done, mashout... it may be done in 30 minutes.

I typically do a single infusion mash with a single batch sparge. I have a 10G igloo cooler which is more than enough room for the 5G batches I've done so far.

Using the 1.25 q/lb ratio which is default in Beersmith, I typically mash for 60 minutes, drain, and then pour in my sparge water which then sits for 10 minutes before I drain.

How would going to 2.0 qts/lb change my process beyond making my sparge volume smaller? I only do 5-6 brew sessions a year so any changes/improvements are significant to me.

Darwin18 said:

I typically do a single infusion mash with a single batch sparge. I have a 10G igloo cooler which is more than enough room for the 5G batches I've done so far.

Using the 1.25 q/lb ratio which is default in Beersmith, I typically mash for 60 minutes, drain, and then pour in my sparge water which then sits for 10 minutes before I drain.

How would going to 2.0 qts/lb change my process beyond making my sparge volume smaller? I only do 5-6 brew sessions a year so any changes/improvements are significant to me.

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Do you know what your converrsion eff. is at this time? A thinner mash CAN and will in many cases increase your conversion eff.

It will also reduce your sparge water volume which in turn will create a better final wort. Since you do a single batch sparge, it probably doesnt matter on the wort quality side much since you have a pretty high sugar concentration in that final running anyhow.